A Semi-Hater Revisits Voyager

[TheGodBen]

The Enterprise-D in Where No One Has Gone Before.

[DevilEyes]

startrekwatcher wrote:

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Living Witness is probably the most overrated VOY episode. I have never been able to view it as an excellent episode.

It is interesting with its take on the alternate crew--lesbian dominatrix Janeway, Borgified Seven, android doctor etc. It gives us as close to a mirror universe version of the crew as we will ever get.

I've been reading this thread after watching each episode (since this is my first-time watch of VOY - on TV) and I thought I wouldn't comment on old posts... but I can't help it this time. Lesbian dominatrix? Um... what? Did I miss something? Like a scene of Janeway tongue-kissing Seven and then whipping her?

And I was under the impression that Simulation Janeway was simply a militant, ruthless captain who shoot prisoners and gave orders to use biological weapons. I don't remember anything in the episode dealing with her sexuality.

[TheGodBen]

It's a well known fact that any woman in command of an isolated spaceship who uses ruthless force with little regard for life is a secret lesbian. Like Admiral Cain in nuBSG or... Captain Garrett in Yesterday's Enterprise.

[kimc]

TheGodBen wrote:

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It's a well known fact that any woman in command of an isolated spaceship who uses ruthless force with little regard for life is a secret lesbian. Like Admiral Cain in nuBSG or... Captain Garrett in Yesterday's Enterprise.

I see you'e returned to the scene of the crime.

I don't see many similarities between Cain and Janeway though. Cain was ruthless but I think part of it was having too high a regard for life. In my opinion watching all those "kids" under her command die during the attack unhinged her. That's just speculation on my part though.

As for Janeway I don't see her as either ruthless or as having a high disregard for life...

[Guy Gardener]

Cain was in charge. Colonial law permitted her to do everything she did. Listen to Zerek go on about oppression, it wasn't hard to get a boot to mash your face in, even during the most peaceful eras from colonial history.

kathy was more like Llyod Bridges as Commander Cain in TOSBSG. Y'know, if he pranced less.

Janeway permitted the culling of hundreds of thousands of Borg drones along side dozens of semifree Borg dreamers from Unimatrix Zero because she deanthropomorhisizes her enemies well.

[kimc]

Guy Gardener wrote:

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Janeway permitted the culling of hundreds of thousands of Borg drones along side dozens of semifree Borg dreamers from Unimatrix Zero because she deanthropomorhisizes her enemies well.

The borg queen did the actual culling while Janeway was pretty much helpless stop her. That's hardly a situation of running amok.

[TheGodBen]

kimc wrote:

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I see you'e returned to the scene of the crime.

I'm not letting go until I get that view counter over 100,000.

I don't see many similarities between Cain and Janeway though. Cain was ruthless but I think part of it was having too high a regard for life. In my opinion watching all those "kids" under her command die during the attack unhinged her. That's just speculation on my part though.

But Cain encouraged rape and shot her XO in the head, so she was clearly a lesbian, and evil Janeway had those black leather gloves, which is the biggest indication of lesbianism there is. I mean, two women going all the way could just be heterosexual college students experimenting, but if one of them wears black leather gloves during the act then you can be sure she's a lesbian.

You know, there are times I think that I'm turning into a lesser version of Guy Gardener.

[AuntKate]

TheGodBen wrote:

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I'm not letting go until I get that view counter over 100,000.

But Cain encouraged rape and shot her XO in the head, so she was clearly a lesbian, and evil Janeway had those black leather gloves, which is the biggest indication of lesbianism there is. I mean, two women going all the way could just be heterosexual college students experimenting, but if one of them wears black leather gloves during the act then you can be sure she's a lesbian.

You know, there are times I think that I'm turning into a lesser version of Guy Gardener.

How could there be a lesser version of Guy? And I mean that as a compliment!

[DevilEyes]

Since I've started to post comments about old episodes, I'll just continue...

TheGodBen wrote:

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One (**)

Trivia time: Intrepid class starships include over 140 stasis chambers, that is almost four times as many stasis chambers as the amount of torpedoes they carry.

I like the general idea of this episode, but the way it plays out is initially boring and eventually turns over the top. They literally turn Voyager into the Seven and Doctor show here and that's not such a bad thing because they are both intriguing characters. Unfortunately Seven's antics quickly get annoying and the episode relies upon Shmully insulting her to make things interesting.

But then Shmully goes offline and Seven is left on her own, that's when things get silly as she starts imagining the crew and Borg drones taunting her about her imminent death. Any sense of subtlety the episode should have had it completely lost when the ship turns green and dry ice starts sublimating all over the place.

I watched that episode today, and I just want to mention something in addition to this: I noticed that a comic moment between Seven and EMH was literally taken from TOS "The Trouble with Tribbles".

The Doc: If you had a sense of humor, you would know that I was making a small joke.
Seven: Very small.

Chekov: I was making a little joke.
Spock: Very little.

Couldn't they at least make up some funny lines of their own, instead of stealing them from TOS?

[AuntKate]

DevilEyes wrote:

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Since I've started to post comments about old episodes, I'll just continue...

I watched that episode today, and I just want to mention something in addition to this: I noticed that a comic moment between Seven and EMH was literally taken from TOS "The Trouble with Tribbles".

The Doc: If you had a sense of humor, you would know that I was making a small joke.
Seven: Very small.

Chekov: I was making a little joke.
Spock: Very little.

Couldn't they at least make up some funny lines of their own, instead of stealing them from TOS?

I think it's charming that they reuse lines. I mean, some of them have become famous, like "He's dead, Jim"; or "I'm a doctor, not a whatever." Besides, that exchange between Chekov and Spock isn't all that unique. It's possible that the Voyager writer didn't even remember it.

[kes7]

I love the little "shout outs" to previous shows. It's like the "I'm a doctor, not a _____" thing -- it never gets old.

[kimc]

TheGodBen wrote:

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and evil Janeway had those black leather gloves, which is the biggest indication of lesbianism there is. I mean, two women going all the way could just be heterosexual college students experimenting, but if one of them wears black leather gloves during the act then you can be sure she's a lesbian.

I forgot about the black leather gloves = lesbian rule. Silly me!

[Kai Winn]

sigh... is this the only application of black leather gloves?

[JustKate]

Well, I wear them sometimes to keep my hands warm. I also have - this is true - brown leather gloves and fuschia leather gloves.

Hey, it gets cold around here in the winter!

[DevilEyes]

JustKate wrote:

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Well, I wear them sometimes to keep my hands warm. I also have - this is true - brown leather gloves and fuschia leather gloves.

Hey, it gets cold around here in the winter!

I have them, too. To my embarrassment - since I am normally trying to avoid stuff made of dead animals and most of my "leather" clothes is fake leather (it is also a good excuse to buy less expensive clothes ) but you know, it was really, really cold that day, my hands were freezing, and the store I ran into had really good, warm black leather gloves (with fur inside, to make it worse )...

Hey, it may still be fake leather and fur... I can hope...