RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 144,890
Posts: 5,698,642
Members: 25,690
Currently online: 503
Newest member: sabankhasdw

TrekToday headlines

Russ Explains Star Wars Day
By: T'Bonz on May 4

New Seekers Book Covers Debut
By: T'Bonz on May 4

Whitney Passes
By: T'Bonz on May 4

Retro Review: Phage
By: Michelle on May 2

The Next Generation Shower Curtain
By: T'Bonz on May 1

Burton Part of Roots Reboot
By: T'Bonz on May 1

May-June 2015 Trek Conventions And Appearances
By: T'Bonz on Apr 30

Ross To Attend Trek Convention
By: T'Bonz on Apr 29

William Shatner Presents Chaos On The Bridge US Premiere
By: T'Bonz on Apr 29

Trek Phaser Monitor Mate Bobble Prop
By: T'Bonz on Apr 28


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Entertainment & Interests > Science Fiction & Fantasy

Science Fiction & Fantasy All your nerd stuff goes here.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old February 10 2009, 03:37 AM   #31
Mr. Laser Beam
Fleet Admiral
 
Mr. Laser Beam's Avatar
 
Location: The visitor's bullpen
View Mr. Laser Beam's Twitter Profile
Re: Of Crossovers and Fictional Universes

Daneel wrote: View Post
Eh, if any particular crossover is extremely difficult to reconcile with other established facts in either of the shows, movies, comics, etc., you can probably brush it off with the old multiple universes theory. That is, you might see a character that is familiar to you, like John Munch showing up on The X-Files, but that doesn't mean he's necessarily the same John Munch that you've seen from the universe of Homicide and Law and Order; he's a John Munch from an alternate universe, who just happens to also be a Baltimore cop.
Agreed. We know Law & Order and Homicide share a universe, because they had *regular* crossovers. But this shared universe does not crossover with X-Files just because John Munch is in both.

In fact, we *know* that there is no such crossover, since in an early Homicide episode ("Partners"), Munch says something about "on Friday nights, most people are at home watching X-Files".

And don't even get me started on any of this Tommy Westphall crap.
__________________
Scotty, don't beam me up yet! I'm taking a sh
Mr. Laser Beam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 10 2009, 03:53 AM   #32
wamdue
Admiral
 
wamdue's Avatar
 
Location: wamdue
Re: Of Crossovers and Fictional Universes

auntiehill wrote: View Post
[I still think it is very strange indeed that Dexter, Burn Notice and CSI: Miami all "exist" in the same town without running into each other. That cries out for a crossover, damn it.
I have been thinking about Dexter & CSI Miami, but in an episode of CSI NY you see a billboard advertising Dexter, so that makes it clear Dexter is a TV show in the CSI verse.

Still Dexter vs Horatio would be alot of fun
__________________
Im Proud of the BBC
wamdue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 10 2009, 03:55 AM   #33
Gojirob
Rear Admiral
 
Gojirob's Avatar
 
Location: Going Super Diclonius 4...
Re: Of Crossovers and Fictional Universes

I'll start on it for all of five seconds. That xover list includes Superman's appearance on 'I Love Lucy' as a connector. Problem : Superman never appeared on ILL - George Reeves did. He was never credited as himself to avoid disappointing the kids, but Ricky and Lucy met him during their stay in Hollywood. You don't meet Superman in Hollywood. If the show had even half-joked that they met him 'while passing through Metropolis', an argument could be made. Also, at no time does GR do anything a mortal man couldn't do.

Sorry, that one is a pet peeve.
__________________
The Go-To For Accurate, Thorough Information about the dark, wonderful series called Elfen Lied, both manga and anime : http://elfen-lied.wikia.com/wiki/Elfen_Lied_Wiki
Gojirob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 10 2009, 04:06 AM   #34
Extrocomp
Captain
 
Re: Of Crossovers and Fictional Universes

Daneel wrote: View Post
Oh, okay. Personally, I'd consider that more of an inside-joke that was not meant to be taken seriously by the showrunners. So I still think don't there's any major problems in the notion that they take place in the same universe.
In the Millennium episode 'Somehow Satan Got Behind Me' shows a studio filming The X-Files, before they are interrupted by a censor who goes insane, starts rambling about how everything is unacceptable before shooting a bunch or people and then himself. The X-Files is never mentioned by name and Mulder and Scully are not played by the real actors and the theme music isn't quite right but supposedly it's obvious that it's an X-Files parody.

I haven't actually seen this episode, I just read the transcript. Does this contradict the idea that The X-Files and Millennium are in the same universe? What do you guys think?

Babaganoosh wrote: View Post
Agreed. We know Law & Order and Homicide share a universe, because they had *regular* crossovers. But this shared universe does not crossover with X-Files just because John Munch is in both.
Precisely. The reason I started this thread is to try to define exactly what "regular crossovers" means. How many crossovers does it have to be? Two? Three? The X-Files and Millennium have two crossovers if you count Jose Chung's one-time appearance in both series as one crossover.

Friday the 13th and Nightmare on Elm Street have 3 crossovers: a 90-minute movie, the novelization of that movie and a comic that also crosses over with Army of Darkness. Comics don't count because they frequently have implausible crossovers (there are 9 different comic crossovers between DC Universe and Aliens/Predator universe). Novelizations perhaps don't count because they have the same story as the movie they're based on. Then again, novelizations sometimes have differences due to script changes, so perhaps they should be counted. Alternatively, perhaps the movie Freddy vs Jason should be counted as two crossovers because it is twice as long as a TV episode.

And then there's Who Framed Roger Rabbit, which is a massive crossover between Disney animated characters Looney Tunes characters, Betty Boop and several others.

I'm surprised no one's mentioned Hercules: The Legendary Journeys, which exists as a TV show in its own universe! And it's not just a brief gag like in Doctor Who. There are several episodes based entirely around this concept.
__________________
May swift death come to all enemies of Extrotech!

Last edited by Extrocomp; February 10 2009 at 04:38 AM.
Extrocomp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 10 2009, 04:35 AM   #35
Harvey
Admiral
 
Harvey's Avatar
 
Re: Of Crossovers and Fictional Universes

Since its a meta-textual parody of the X-Files, and not the actual show, I don't have a problem with it. After all, The X-Files had it's own version of the same joke, with Hollywood, A.D.
__________________
"This begs explanation." - de Forest Research on Star Trek

My blog: Star Trek Fact Check.
Harvey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 10 2009, 04:37 AM   #36
The Borgified Corpse
Admiral
 
The Borgified Corpse's Avatar
 
Location: Ouch! Forgotten already? You were just down there 20 minutes ago.
Re: Of Crossovers and Fictional Universes

wamdue wrote: View Post
The Borgified Corpse wrote: View Post
wamdue wrote: View Post
that said Doctor Who pulled the same trick on itself once, so maybe I shouldnt judge X Files so harshly
When did Doctor Who do that?
anyways in "Rememberance of the Daleks"

An apparent meta-reference to the show happens in one scene, the first and so far only explicit one in the show's history. A television screen shows a BBC Television caption of the period with a continuity announcer saying "This is BBC television, the time is quarter past five and Saturday viewing continues with an adventure in the new science fiction series Doc—", but is cut off by a scene change before completing the title.
(quoting from wikipedia, but its true)
Oh yeah. I've seen "Rememberance of the Daleks." Now I remember that. That was cool.

Gojirob wrote: View Post
Also, at no time does GR do anything a mortal man couldn't do.
True. But that bit where he jumps through the window of Lucy & Ricky's kitchen into the living room is pretty cool.
__________________
Kegg: "You're a Trekkie. The capacity to quibble over the minutiae of space opera films is your birthright."
The Borgified Corpse is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 10 2009, 04:41 AM   #37
wamdue
Admiral
 
wamdue's Avatar
 
Location: wamdue
Re: Of Crossovers and Fictional Universes

someone wrote: View Post
I'm surprised no one's mentioned Hercules: The Legendary Journeys, which exists as a TV show in its own universe! And it's not just a brief gag like in Doctor Who. There are several episodes based entirely around this concept.
I think I know the one you mean, where we see Herc as a studio exec? and all other actors in the show also have jobs?
__________________
Im Proud of the BBC
wamdue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 10 2009, 04:56 AM   #38
Gojirob
Rear Admiral
 
Gojirob's Avatar
 
Location: Going Super Diclonius 4...
Re: Of Crossovers and Fictional Universes

The Borgified Corpse wrote: View Post
wamdue wrote: View Post
The Borgified Corpse wrote: View Post

When did Doctor Who do that?
anyways in "Rememberance of the Daleks"

(quoting from wikipedia, but its true)
Oh yeah. I've seen "Rememberance of the Daleks." Now I remember that. That was cool.

Gojirob wrote: View Post
Also, at no time does GR do anything a mortal man couldn't do.
True. But that bit where he jumps through the window of Lucy & Ricky's kitchen into the living room is pretty cool.
QFT. Don't get me wrong, its among my fave eps of one of my fave shows, featuring my fave Superman. If they ever make a Hallmark ornament of some sort out of one of its scenes, count me there. But to use a convention meant to protect 50's kiddies' fantasies to somehow argue that Kal-L Superman exists in Lucy's world is weaker than some talk radio I've heard, and that's saying something. Its nice fic fodder, but that's about it.

Heh. Speaking of fic fodder, imagine a series of eps wherein the Ricardos and Mertzes go to Japan so Ricky can tour for the USO. While there, odd rumblings are heard in Tokyo Bay...

Lucy : Eewwwwhhh!

Ricky : Ai-yai-yai-yai-YAIIIIIII!!!

Lucy : ohhhh, RICKY! He stepped on Fred + Ethel!!!

Ricky : Well, its about time.
__________________
The Go-To For Accurate, Thorough Information about the dark, wonderful series called Elfen Lied, both manga and anime : http://elfen-lied.wikia.com/wiki/Elfen_Lied_Wiki
Gojirob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 10 2009, 05:20 AM   #39
Daneel
Rear Admiral
 
Daneel's Avatar
 
Location: Toronto
Re: Of Crossovers and Fictional Universes

wamdue wrote: View Post
someone wrote: View Post
I'm surprised no one's mentioned Hercules: The Legendary Journeys, which exists as a TV show in its own universe! And it's not just a brief gag like in Doctor Who. There are several episodes based entirely around this concept.
I think I know the one you mean, where we see Herc as a studio exec? and all other actors in the show also have jobs?
I remember those episodes (there were a couple of them, I think). Basically, they suggested that the actor Kevin Sorbo was actually the real Hercules (I guess he inherited his father's immortality) and that he was starring on a TV series (presumably, the same one we were watching) based on his adventures from thousands of years earlier. Other recurring actors on the show played exaggerated versions of the real-life writers and producers.

It was somewhat amusing, but it seemed like the writers thought of it as more of gag than as a crucial part of the show's mythology, especially since it presented the audience with facts that were later contradicted in the series' "regular" episodes (i.e. mentioning or showing certain god characters that shouldn't exist in the present day because they were killed off in later episodes).

Either way, it doesn't really have anything to do with a crossover, but I guess it does add to the meta-universe idea. This show, and Xena, often had self-referential episodes that existed outside of the regular series narrative, but I think that was just the writers trying to have some experimental fun with the tongue-in-cheek nature of the show. I personally don't really regard most of them as part of the "canon", so to speak, but to each his own.
Daneel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 10 2009, 05:56 AM   #40
IndyJones
Vice Admiral
 
IndyJones's Avatar
 
Location: Chicago
Re: Of Crossovers and Fictional Universes

Gojirob wrote: View Post
It almost did happen. Sam was at one point supposed to leap into Magnum, PI, but legal issues killed it, and they wrote the Lee Harvey Oswald story instead.
I haven't seen an episode in years, but i remember really enjoying the Oswald arc.

Extrocomp wrote: View Post
P.S. Please don’t mention the Tommy Westphall universe. It’s an extremely ridiculous idea and I’m concerned that it will lead this discussion in the wrong direction. Besides, only the first season of St. Elsewhere has been released on DVD, and if a show doesn’t exist on DVD, it doesn’t exist.
I found a chart where a guy connected show from Tommy's mind. He directly connected Angel to the new Battlestar. It's a frakkin' disaster.
__________________
Travel's fatal to prejudice, bigotry, narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things can't be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's life.
IndyJones is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 10 2009, 06:49 AM   #41
Aquehonga
Fleet Captain
 
Location: nuSpringville Transbus Hub: there be Yukon deers on them buses!
Re: Of Crossovers and Fictional Universes

Nardpuncher wrote: View Post
USS_Triumphant wrote: View Post
Apparently, all of the David Kelly shows - L.A. Law, Picket Fences, Chicago Hope, The Practice, Ally McBeal, Boston Public, Boston Legal, Legally Mad, and others - exist in a shared universe.

The Buffalo Muffins woman that lived in the trailer park with Jay on Wonderfalls was in one of the last episodes of Pushing Daisies - the cook-off episode.

I've sometimes thought it would be incredibly neat if the networks could cooperate on a project to have Scott Bakula take the place of one actor in a role on various shows on different channels, ala Quantum Leap, as a lead up to a Quantum Leap movie.

But what if he leapt into T'Pol or Mayweather or even Phlox?
I've always admired the David Kelly-verse. The way all DK's shows are in the same space/time continuum.

It'd be to have Quantum Leap back again too

QL's Series Finale being open-ended & all.

Be great to see Scott Bakula & Dean Spockwell reunited

Especially after DS's disappointing ENT visit

What if Doc Beckett leaped into Cap'n Archer's body?
Aquehonga is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 10 2009, 07:52 AM   #42
Star Wolf
Rear Admiral
 
Star Wolf's Avatar
 
Location: ciudad de Los Angeles
Re: Of Crossovers and Fictional Universes

The Borgified Corpse wrote: View Post
USS_Triumphant wrote: View Post
Apparently, all of the David Kelly shows - L.A. Law, Picket Fences, Chicago Hope, The Practice, Ally McBeal, Boston Public, Boston Legal, Legally Mad, and others - exist in a shared universe.
And, IIRC, Picket Fences did a crossover episode with The X-Files, which would also set all of those David E. Kelly shows into a common universe with The Lone Gunmen, Millennium, Homicide, and Law & Order.
The story on the Picket Fences, X-Files crossover is up thread. I remember that night well. I was a Picket Fences fan and the cow episode made that show one of my all time favorites. It is on my list of best hour of television

On the X-Files Sculley and Muldar were in Wisconsin investigating some sort of cult with cows envovled. Then Picket Fences came on. The plot of using cows as surrogate mothers as the Christmas episode was as far out as anything they did. But then the regional FBI agent who had a reoccuring role because of the weird happenings in Rome was called in. And Carter the M.E. suggested asking in a couple of Special Agents who recently worked a case linked with cows somewhere else in the state and I spit out my tea.

Almost a crossover, but not
__________________
I'm not crazy! All I Really Need to Know I learned by Watching The Wire
Star Wolf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 10 2009, 11:44 AM   #43
Nardpuncher
Rear Admiral
 
Location: Taipei
Re: Of Crossovers and Fictional Universes

Oh yeah, I like to think that since Reginald ValJohnson (sp?) played a cop on both "Family Matters" and in "Die Hard" that maybe they were the same guy.
Imagine John McClane meeting Steve Erkel!
Nardpuncher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 10 2009, 01:41 PM   #44
Gojirob
Rear Admiral
 
Gojirob's Avatar
 
Location: Going Super Diclonius 4...
Re: Of Crossovers and Fictional Universes

Mclane would just have Steve walk in and talk to the terrorists de jure. Either way, he wins.

BTW, something I just recalled. On a technical level, many of the heroes we regard as early DC actually came from different companies : National and All-American also had differing viewpoints on the war in Europe, prior to Pearl Harbor. So it is that one of the first true crossovers in comics resulted in the creation of the Justice Society!
__________________
The Go-To For Accurate, Thorough Information about the dark, wonderful series called Elfen Lied, both manga and anime : http://elfen-lied.wikia.com/wiki/Elfen_Lied_Wiki
Gojirob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 10 2009, 02:10 PM   #45
Deckerd
Fleet Arse
 
Deckerd's Avatar
 
Location: the Frozen Wastes
Re: Of Crossovers and Fictional Universes

Back to the OP, I think Sigourney Weaver summed up the idea of an Alien / Predator movie the best and most succinctly; "I think it's a horrible idea".

And she was right.
__________________
They couldn't hit an elephant at this distance.
Deckerd is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 04:59 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.