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Trek Tech Pass me the quantum flux regulator, will you?

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Old January 26 2009, 10:57 PM   #1
Cmdr Sho
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Transwarp

Cmdr Sho here,

Memory Alpha does not explain this well.... How exactly does transwarp work and what is required to make it work on a Nova class vessel? I know voyager did play around with it and said something about the long-term effects it has on humans... What was that all about?
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Old January 26 2009, 11:32 PM   #2
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Re: Transwarp

Hi! Off the top of my head, there have been several different versions of transwarp drive depicted, to varying degrees, on screen.

1) Excelsior's transwarp drive which was only shown to fail when pursuing the Enterprise in 'Star Trek III'
2) Transwarp as breaking warp 10/infinite velocity as seen in 'Threshold' that caused humans to evolve/devolve into small salamander-like creatures
3) Voth (dinosaur species) transwarp as seen in 'Distant Origin' which looked pretty much like regular warp but with longer star streaks
4) Borg transwarp - seems to employ small transwarp coils that allow access to a network of subspace corridors/tunnels that are held up via 'transwarp hubs' as seen in 'Endgame.' The Enterprise-D was also able to follow Lore's Borg ship into a transwarp corridor in 'Descent' without a transwarp coil, I believe using their deflector.

Now personally, I imagine that the first three are all variants of the same 'infinite velocity' transwarp, since there appears to be no corridors/tunnels. I think that the Excelsior just failed to break the warp ten barrier for danger of tearing itself apart, a problem the shuttlecraft Cochrane seemed to suffer from in 'Threshold.' And even though the Voth ship at transwarp didn't seem to be using infinite velocity, maybe it could but was just using a lower form, or different form. (Indeed, lines in STIII seemed to indicate that all warp speeds are, or would have been, had it worked, available through transwarp drive, so it's possible that this just adds warp ten to the top of their speedometer.) One might speculate they use a similar technology that has no 'evolutionary' effects. As to how this type of transwarp would work, I'd say it's anyone's guess but probably a higher quality warp reaction and resulting stronger warp fields, which I believe also had something to do with the Cochrane 'tearing itself apart' in 'Threshold' - the subspace field had deleterious effects on the nacelle pylon structure.

If you're talking about Borg transwarp, theoretically all one would need is a transwarp coil stolen from the Borg, but those appear to have some compatibility issues of unspecified type and burn out after a while. But those also don't have any specified side-effects. You would of course have to steal a coil from the Borg.

You could alternatively use quantum slipstream drive, which at least looks the same as Borg transwarp, and Voyager couldn't quite make work either, but has been suggested in the novels of late that Starfleet has been playing around with in the post-Voyager return timeframe.

Hope that helps!
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Old January 26 2009, 11:46 PM   #3
Cmdr Sho
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Re: Transwarp

SUBSPACE MESSAGE (NO AUDIO):

I totally forgot about the NX-2000!! But this was help full... I was thinking about the dinosaur version which would correspond with the threshold... But what about this quamtum slipstreem drive? How does that work?
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Old January 27 2009, 12:12 AM   #4
Vance
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Re: Transwarp

Oh come on, we all know that it's just the same as regular warp, but was never really comfortable with its identity and 'made the switch'.

Not that there's anything wrong with that.
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Old January 27 2009, 12:17 AM   #5
CuttingEdge100
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Re: Transwarp

Looking at all the times Transwarp was mentioned in Trek, there are apparently multiple forms of it

ST III Transwarp: High-tech warp-drive with speeds faster than 10, probably in particular 14.666
The Enterprise in an episode of TOS reached that velocity. Captain Styles said he looked forward to beating the Enterprise's speed records, which logically would be 14.666

ST VOY Borg Transwarp: Some kind of wormhole technology not entirely different than quantum slipstream drive.

ST VOY Warp 10 Transwarp: An infinite-speed warp-drive system.

Among probably others


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Old January 27 2009, 12:51 AM   #6
JNG
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Re: Transwarp

Transwarp has been applied to different things too many times to have much technical specificity as a term. It refers to propulsion methods that are somehow beyond the warp drive familiar to us (which itself has evidently changed relatively little over a couple of centuries). We may speculate that the incorporation of subspace into the operating principle is enough to classify any such method under this general heading (although coming up with a Trek super-drive that doesn't somehow incorporate it would take some doing if you wanted it to remain plausible).

Warp 10 is not a "barrier" beyond which infinite speed lies. Infinite speed could never be achieved with warp drive or anything else. The idea is meaningless as a real-world physical measurement, even before you get into the impossibilities needed to realize it in "Threshold" (such as infinite acceleration, infinite shields and inertial damping, and of course the infinite power to keep all those systems running). Because this episode clearly showed our lead characters experiencing strange effects they did not understand, we are fortunately granted leave not to take any of their earlier statements about their experiment at face value. We must extend this even to the title of the episode (or what exactly would the "threshold" be?).
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Old January 27 2009, 01:01 AM   #7
Praetor
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Re: Transwarp

JNG wrote: View Post
Transwarp has been applied to different things too many times to have much technical specificity as a term. It refers to propulsion methods that are somehow beyond the warp drive familiar to us (which itself has evidently changed relatively little over a couple of centuries). We may speculate that the incorporation of subspace into the operating principle is enough to classify any such method under this general heading (although coming up with a Trek super-drive that doesn't somehow incorporate it would take some doing if you wanted it to remain plausible).

Warp 10 is not a "barrier" beyond which infinite speed lies. Infinite speed could never be achieved with warp drive or anything else. The idea is meaningless as a real-world physical measurement, even before you get into the impossibilities needed to realize it in "Threshold" (such as infinite acceleration, infinite shields and inertial damping, and of course the infinite power to keep all those systems running). Because this episode clearly showed our lead characters experiencing strange effects they did not understand, we are fortunately granted leave not to take any of their earlier statements about their experiment at face value. We must extend this even to the title of the episode (or what exactly would the "threshold" be?).
I don't know, the way I've always thought about it is that what 'warp 10' allows vis a vis infinite velocity, is basically you pop into warp ten, you're basically outside normal space and can re-enter anywhere you want. And that's the 'threshold' in question. So it's not technically infinite velocity, more like cheat infinite velocity. But like you say, transwarp, in its various forms, all seem to be a 'cheat' form of warp that uses subspace or other interdimensionality to its benefit. Granted, 'Threshold's science is rather dubious, but that's how I rationalize it to try to get a coherent bigger picture anyway.

As for quantum slipstream, I have no idea how it works, other than it looks like a blue version of the Borg's non-infinite transwarp conduits. But from Memory Alpha's article on quantum slipstream:

The slipstream is a narrowly-focused, directed warp field that is initiated by manipulating the fabric of the space-time continuum at the quantum level. It works by focusing a quantum field through a deflector dish to generate massive changes in local space curvature; this creates a subspace tunnel, which is projected in front of the vessel. Once a ship has entered this tunnel, the forces inside propel it at incredible speed. In order to maintain the slipstream a ship has to constantly modify the quantum field with its deflector dish; however, the calculations involved are too complicated for 24th century Starfleet technology, and the time available is too short before the vessel out-paces the tunnel, collapsing the slipstream.
For what that's worth.
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Old January 27 2009, 02:09 PM   #8
Cmdr Sho
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Re: Transwarp

if i understand correctly, transwarp is a cheat of warp drive, the idea never worked for starfleet, there seems to be a "threshold" but at the same time there isnt...

in the DS9 episode "one little ship" worf had mentioned that the data collected from that nebula thing could help starfleet create a transwarp drive.... what could that mean? and what sort of data?

as for slipstream, in the books (post voyager) starfleet seems to be playing with the idea.... what is that century? and the technical info on slipsteam helps thanks! and how persise does the "modifications to the quantum field" have to be?
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Old January 27 2009, 02:18 PM   #9
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Re: Transwarp

I think "transwarp" just refers to any system that's beyond the Federation's current Warp capability.
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Old January 27 2009, 02:32 PM   #10
Cmdr Sho
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Re: Transwarp

The Borg Queen wrote: View Post
I think "transwarp" just refers to any system that's beyond the Federation's current Warp capability.

so in this context, quantum slipstream would be considered as transwarp because it is not in the Federation's current Warp Capability? hmmmm.... that does not sound just right, but i get the point...
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Old January 27 2009, 02:38 PM   #11
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Re: Transwarp

Cmdr Sho wrote: View Post
The Borg Queen wrote: View Post
I think "transwarp" just refers to any system that's beyond the Federation's current Warp capability.

so in this context, quantum slipstream would be considered as transwarp because it is not in the Federation's current Warp Capability? hmmmm.... that does not sound just right, but i get the point...
Maybe not *as* transwarp but as a type of transwarp? The method of propulsion is too different from subspace-field based Federation travel, even if it would create the same results.
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Old January 27 2009, 03:07 PM   #12
Cmdr Sho
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Re: Transwarp

The Borg Queen wrote: View Post
Cmdr Sho wrote: View Post
The Borg Queen wrote: View Post
I think "transwarp" just refers to any system that's beyond the Federation's current Warp capability.

so in this context, quantum slipstream would be considered as transwarp because it is not in the Federation's current Warp Capability? hmmmm.... that does not sound just right, but i get the point...
Maybe not *as* transwarp but as a type of transwarp? The method of propulsion is too different from subspace-field based Federation travel, even if it would create the same results.

so transwarp and quantum slipstream both produce the same rersult? would that result be like "faster than warp travel"? and isn't slipstream faster than trans warp? like in the voy episode "timeless" didnt voyager reach the Beta Quadrent in a matter of minutes? just as in that episode with the USS Dautless, they traveled way over 20,000 light years back to borg space and back in X-number of minutes?
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Old January 27 2009, 03:12 PM   #13
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Re: Transwarp

I'd argue that "transwarp" is what you call any better-than-warp system until you either decide to give it a proper name, or learn what the natives are calling it.

The Borg weren't telling what they call their high speed system, so it remained "transwarp". But things like "quantum slipstream" or "coaxial warp" were given explicit native names by the users or inventors, so that's what our heroes adopted, too.

Obviously, there would be different techniques giving different speeds under the "transwarp" umbrella designation. The Borg already have several sorts: the fastest seems to be if they use big conduits erected by fixed nodes, and it's a bit slower if the ship has to create its own conduit with its own coil.

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Old January 27 2009, 03:25 PM   #14
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Re: Transwarp

ahhh....i see....transwarp would include slipstream since the general definition would imply that it is in fact "faster than warp" and is only defined otherwise if it has been given a name.... interesting.... i will add that to my memory files....
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Old January 27 2009, 08:03 PM   #15
lennier1
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Re: Transwarp

Depends on the variety.
For example I always assumed that Excelsior´s transwarp drive was actually the first of the more efficient warp drives we´ve grown accustomed to in the TNG era. Hence also the switch from the old warp scale to the new one.
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