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Old January 14 2009, 12:59 PM   #1
Boy Wonder
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Bulldyke with Bob

Did anybody actually see this lesbian subtext between Janeway and Seven or was it wishful thinking?

I did think Seven touching and correcting Janeway's pip (Someone to Watch Over me) was a little beyond the call of duty on the second time around when I had previously read the subtext hoo hah in another board. Not to mention that she did care for Seven an awful lot, and the extremes she would go to.

Was Janeway an embittered lesbian denying her true sexuality (She could have programmed Michael with a Vagina, no one can be sure) lusting after the gorgeous sexually confused lipstick lesbian?
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Old January 14 2009, 06:33 PM   #2
cyph
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Re: Bulldyke with Bob

Yeah, I think when seven first came in I might have caught that feeling once or twice, but never more after that...

edit: or maybe I was being blinded by my bias towards a chakotay-janeway union
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Old January 14 2009, 08:56 PM   #3
exodus
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Re: Bulldyke with Bob

No, I saw a mother raising a daughter.

Woman are just more openly affectionate than men.
If we were to take these examples as hints of sexual attraction, then everytime women go to the ladies room in groups we'd have to assume their having an orgy in there too.

Let's not confuse what we see in "adult cinema" as real world female interaction.
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Old January 14 2009, 09:06 PM   #4
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Re: Bulldyke with Bob

I would have to agree that their relationship was more mother daughter than anything else. Seven's developement stopped at age 7 when she was stolen by the Borg, so she had a lot to learn about humans and Janeway took her under her wing so to speak.
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Old January 14 2009, 09:13 PM   #5
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Re: Bulldyke with Bob

I think the subtext is quite obvious the more you watch it and actually see Janeway's constant weaknesses for Seven and her lapses of judgement and rationality it would make perfect sense.

Exodus, I bought that Deanna/Beverley, Dax/Kira, Belanna/Janeway, Belanna/Seven, T'pol/Hoshi were friends/colleagues but you can't deny Janeway would always go above and beyond the call for Seven. What about the episode The Raven?

Janeway plays a mother figure to Belanna and I never got those vibes.

Actually no Western men are the ones with emotional issues and affection problems, plenty of men in Asia and Europe show their affection.

And as for your analogy, stop being so childish. Hardly, "Adult Cinema" would see Seven with a strap on and saying to Janeway "I'm willing to explore my humanity Captain. Take off your clothes Ma'am."
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Old January 14 2009, 09:23 PM   #6
exodus
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Re: Bulldyke with Bob

Boy Wonder wrote: View Post
I think the subtext is quite obvious the more you watch it and actually see Janeway's constant weaknesses for Seven and her lapses of judgement and rationality it would make perfect sense.

Exodus, I bought that Deanna/Beverley, Dax/Kira, Belanna/Janeway, Belanna/Seven, T'pol/Hoshi were friends/colleagues but you can't deny Janeway would always go above and beyond the call for Seven. What about the episode The Raven?

Janeway plays a mother figure to Belanna and I never got those vibes.

Actually no Western men are the ones with emotional issues and affection problems, plenty of men in Asia and Europe show their affection.

And as for your analogy, stop being so childish. Hardly, "Adult Cinema" would see Seven with a strap on and saying to Janeway "I'm willing to explore my humanity Captain. Take off your clothes Ma'am."
Be'lanna was an adult mentally and already set in her way, she didn't need Janeway to be her mother. Janeway was someone Be'Lanna respected as a equal peer & a confidant. As Klingonpredator correctly put it, Seven was mentally a child and need the close supervison from Janeway to guide her. None of the other female relationships you mentioned are in that catagory.

Picard was just as affectionate toward Data but nobody confused their relationship as homosexual, suddenly with these two women it is.

If I'm childish, "Bulldyke with Bob" is meant to be a mature title?
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Old January 14 2009, 09:30 PM   #7
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Re: Bulldyke with Bob

exodus wrote: View Post
Boy Wonder wrote: View Post
I think the subtext is quite obvious the more you watch it and actually see Janeway's constant weaknesses for Seven and her lapses of judgement and rationality it would make perfect sense.

Exodus, I bought that Deanna/Beverley, Dax/Kira, Belanna/Janeway, Belanna/Seven, T'pol/Hoshi were friends/colleagues but you can't deny Janeway would always go above and beyond the call for Seven. What about the episode The Raven?

Janeway plays a mother figure to Belanna and I never got those vibes.

Actually no Western men are the ones with emotional issues and affection problems, plenty of men in Asia and Europe show their affection.

And as for your analogy, stop being so childish. Hardly, "Adult Cinema" would see Seven with a strap on and saying to Janeway "I'm willing to explore my humanity Captain. Take off your clothes Ma'am."
Be'lanna was an adult mentally and already set in her way, she didn't need Janeway to be her mother. Janeway was someone Be'Lanna respected as a equal peer & a confidant. As Klingonpredator correctly put it, Seven was mentally a child and need the close supervison from Janeway to guide her. None of the other female relationships you mentioned are in that catagory.

Picard was just as affectionate toward Data but nobody confused their relationship as homosexual, suddenly with these two women it is.
Belanna, an adult mentally? Surely all her emotional baggage and volatile nature would suggest otherwise, Klingon or not.

Well the Doctor lusted after her, he was her mentor, so Janeway was not the only one to mentor her or feel responsible for her or be above reproach when she started developing feelings towards her.

See Picard managed affection with Data without it becoming lust or love or even a hint that there may be a something going on.
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Old January 14 2009, 09:32 PM   #8
exodus
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Re: Bulldyke with Bob

Boy Wonder wrote: View Post
exodus wrote: View Post
Boy Wonder wrote: View Post
I think the subtext is quite obvious the more you watch it and actually see Janeway's constant weaknesses for Seven and her lapses of judgement and rationality it would make perfect sense.

Exodus, I bought that Deanna/Beverley, Dax/Kira, Belanna/Janeway, Belanna/Seven, T'pol/Hoshi were friends/colleagues but you can't deny Janeway would always go above and beyond the call for Seven. What about the episode The Raven?

Janeway plays a mother figure to Belanna and I never got those vibes.

Actually no Western men are the ones with emotional issues and affection problems, plenty of men in Asia and Europe show their affection.

And as for your analogy, stop being so childish. Hardly, "Adult Cinema" would see Seven with a strap on and saying to Janeway "I'm willing to explore my humanity Captain. Take off your clothes Ma'am."
Be'lanna was an adult mentally and already set in her way, she didn't need Janeway to be her mother. Janeway was someone Be'Lanna respected as a equal peer & a confidant. As Klingonpredator correctly put it, Seven was mentally a child and need the close supervison from Janeway to guide her. None of the other female relationships you mentioned are in that catagory.

Picard was just as affectionate toward Data but nobody confused their relationship as homosexual, suddenly with these two women it is.
Belanna, an adult mentally? Surely all her emotional baggage and volatile nature would suggest otherwise, Klingon or not.
Don't know any angry adults or ones with emotional baggage?

You must not post here often enough.
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Old January 14 2009, 11:40 PM   #9
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Re: Bulldyke with Bob

If there is a God, then somewhere, in some version of the Universe, Seven and T'Pol are in bed together.
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Old January 15 2009, 03:30 AM   #10
Boy Wonder
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Re: Bulldyke with Bob

exodus wrote: View Post
Boy Wonder wrote: View Post
exodus wrote: View Post
Be'lanna was an adult mentally and already set in her way, she didn't need Janeway to be her mother. Janeway was someone Be'Lanna respected as a equal peer & a confidant. As Klingonpredator correctly put it, Seven was mentally a child and need the close supervison from Janeway to guide her. None of the other female relationships you mentioned are in that catagory.

Picard was just as affectionate toward Data but nobody confused their relationship as homosexual, suddenly with these two women it is.
Belanna, an adult mentally? Surely all her emotional baggage and volatile nature would suggest otherwise, Klingon or not.
Don't know any angry adults or ones with emotional baggage?

You must not post here often enough.
I now know what you mean. I've just dealt dealt with an angry adult with obvious issues and lots of emotional baggage on here.

Though I think Janeway nurtured Belanna just as much as Seven throughout it's run but there we never overt signs of a sexual nature.

I really don't consider Seven a child, more like emotionally and mentally stunted adult. She may have the signs of being a child, but she really isn't as she is far more complex and shows signs of vast knowledge and theory, just putting it into practice is another thing entirely, whereas children do not have the theory or the practice.

Odo's_Bucket wrote: View Post
If there is a God, then somewhere, in some version of the Universe, Seven and T'Pol are in bed together.
I'd actually prefer Seven with Hoshi.
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Old January 15 2009, 03:56 AM   #11
Tom
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Re: Bulldyke with Bob

Odo's_Bucket wrote: View Post
If there is a God, then somewhere, in some version of the Universe, Seven and T'Pol are in bed together.
Whats ironic about this is that this is something Bannon Braga tried.. well sort of..

I will explain, this is a little insider info and any of the production crew who worked on Enterprise before season 4 will back this but most will only do so anonymously because its a sensitive issue. Bannon likes women a bit too much it seems, he went after Jeri Ryan soon after she joined Voyager and went out with her for a while. During Enterprise he tried numourus times to hook up with Jolene (this was after he parted with Jeri), but Jolene would have none of it, as she was involved at the time. During Season 3 it got to the point where Jolene went to Berman and TPTB and said she would not work as long as Brannon was on the set. So in season 4 Brannon steped back and worked from home mostly, this allowed Manny Coto to step up and give us the great season 4 we had.. True story..
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Old January 15 2009, 03:59 AM   #12
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Re: Bulldyke with Bob

^ Got any evidence to back that up?
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Old January 15 2009, 04:11 AM   #13
Tom
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Re: Bulldyke with Bob

Babaganoosh wrote: View Post
^ Got any evidence to back that up?
No, thats the problem, I wish i had. As part of the saveenterprise campaign I got a chance to talk to several on the production crew and heard this story a few times but it is not something they are going to go public with. I beleive them, hopefully it will come out via another source then i can say i told you so.. I just find it funny because alot of people praise Manny for season 4 but if Brannon was not such a horn-dog , Manny would not have gotten the chance. Anyways, Bannon got a job on 24 now, thanks to Manny's help, maybe its pay back. The irony kills me
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Old January 15 2009, 04:59 PM   #14
exodus
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Re: Bulldyke with Bob

Boy Wonder wrote: View Post
exodus wrote: View Post
Boy Wonder wrote: View Post

Belanna, an adult mentally? Surely all her emotional baggage and volatile nature would suggest otherwise, Klingon or not.
Don't know any angry adults or ones with emotional baggage?

You must not post here often enough.
I now know what you mean. I've just dealt dealt with an angry adult with obvious issues and lots of emotional baggage on here.

Though I think Janeway nurtured Belanna just as much as Seven throughout it's run but there we never overt signs of a sexual nature.

I really don't consider Seven a child, more like emotionally and mentally stunted adult. She may have the signs of being a child, but she really isn't as she is far more complex and shows signs of vast knowledge and theory, just putting it into practice is another thing entirely, whereas children do not have the theory or the practice.
I see what you're saying here, however I think you have to ask yourself: Is Seven's knowledge stuff she just repeats from the Borg or are they her own actual ideas?
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Old January 15 2009, 06:59 PM   #15
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Re: Bulldyke with Bob

hmm, I thought that Janeway's and Seven's relationship was more mother/daughterly????
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