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Old November 26 2011, 01:03 AM   #91
Lt. Beatings
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Re: Intrepid class VS a galaxy class, which was more powerful and adva

Voyager was packing quantums, so maybe a chance against the Enterprise D
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Old November 26 2011, 01:43 AM   #92
T'Girl
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Re: Intrepid class VS a galaxy class, which was more powerful and adva

Unless the Enteprise happen to be also carrying some that week.
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Old November 26 2011, 02:04 AM   #93
Deks
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Re: Intrepid class VS a galaxy class, which was more powerful and adva

Lt. Beatings

Voyager was actually launched with Photon torpedoes (type 6), though it was stated in one of the episodes that the Cardassian dreadnought which they found carried Quantum torpedoes and that they could be adapted to work with Voyager's launchers.
So, the ship is capable of carrying them.

T'Girl wrote: View Post
We've seen the Enterprise fire ten torpedoes at once, out of a single tube, indicating that her tubes possess a larger diameter.
The Sierra Pattern.
I remember Janeway ordering the same firing pattern in 'Basics' (we never got to see it visually, but it was probably the same thing as the Enterprise D employed).
What we saw on TNG could have been 10 micro-torpedoes being fired from a single tube and not actual-sized ones.
It was never explained fully... and we have no concrete information which says that the torpedo launchers on the Enterprise-D were any larger than the ones on the Intrepid.
The D displayed this ability only twice in early TNG.
Later seasons completely disregarded this ability and showed the ship firing one torpedo at a time.

And the number of phaser strips has to do with covering firing arcs, and nothing to do with fire power. You can fire from a single "spot' on one strip with 100% of available power, or ten spots simultaneously with 10% power. If the Voyager possessed 120 strips, that would not give her 10 time the fire power of a Enterprise.
I agree that the amount of phaser strips is predominantly there for coverage, BUT, it was never mentioned officially (on-screen) just how the phaser strips worked.
To that end, the size of the arrays could have next to 0 meaning in terms of firepower and would only be there to allow for better coverage/firing angles, nothing else.

And apparently had the manufacturing ability to make more.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but Voyager fired them one at a time.
It was stated in early Season 1 of Voyager by Janeway that they could not replace the torpedoes once they were gone.
However, it was NOT stated whether they had the ability to manufacture more if they had proper materials at their disposal.
It's not that hard to think that Voyager would have refilled their Warp core at critical junctures and traded with races that have antimatter in abundance, allowing the crew to make new torpedoes.
Or the crew could have found other ways to augment their antimatter reserves (omicron particles aren't the only source after all) and would be able to replicate torpedoes in parts, and simply separate enough anti-matter to fill the new torpedoes and replenish their supplies.
In Trek reality, the level of technology in the late 24th century (and even in the late 23rd century) was such that effectively allowed any SF ship to be completely self-sufficient if necessary.
Pit stops in solar systems would be required from time to time, but the ships wouldn't have to depend on trading with other races to get supplies when they can make their own.

[/quote]
Hey, remember when the Enterprise's chief medical officer (while in command) did that for the first time, years before Voyager did?

While the Enterprise's shield survived an attack from a Borg full size cube.
[/quote]

But Voyager's shields were already by nature alone multi-phasic - fully integrated, whereas the Enterprise-D at the time had the program separately.
Size in Trek rarely matters when it comes to power output.
The tactical cube was stated by 7 of 9 to be heavily armed.
Plus, that tactical cube (if you hadn't seen 'Unimatrix Zero') was in fact quite large by itself (Voyager was tiny compared to it).
It could be inferred that the Tactical Cube was an even more dangerous adversary than your 'full sized cube'.

Verbal statements by the production staff, while interesting, are non-canon.
To that end, you freely ignore on-screen statements which say that Humans don't employ a money based economy.
Plus others ignore that replicators turn energy into matter (as was repeatedly stated), not matter into matter.
That's a very lovely way to ignore 'canon'.
And should you mention how I was doing the same when making the case against evidence for usage of money on TOS, TNG and Ds9, I was trying to explain those relatively infrequent scenes in a manner that keeps the notion of a moneyless economy society which apparently has to deal with alien cultures and individuals who still employ a money-based economy.

Hardly, the Enterprise greater size requires a larger warp field enclosure, and therefor greater power generation. Power that if feed into the weapons system (or other systems) would exceed Voyager generation capacity.
So the Galaxy is a larger ship than Voyager and needs a bigger warp field to accommodate itself. Lol.
Doesn't mean Voyager would have to expend less power to achieve faster velocities...
In fact, one could argue that if Voyager's Warp core can go on 3 years before it has to be refilled (and the Galaxy class 5 years), then it could stand to reason that it's because the class 9 Warp drive it employs simply demands so much power compared to the less capable engines of the Galaxy class.
If you also recall, the Enterprise-D's top warp speed changed over time. It went from a maximum sustainable 9.3 (which was PAST the 'red line' in Encounter at Farpoint) to 9.6.
We've seen small ships packing same or much larger firepower compared to capital ships.
The Defiant comes to mind - and that thing is incapable of going past specific Warp factor even when shunting enough power to the engines.

Owing to it small size and weight, Voyager is faster, and likely more maneuverable. Because of it's small warp field envelope, Voyager's warp core can produce less power and reach higher speeds. But that also mean less power for all those phaser strips.
It could also mean that it requires less power to generate a warp field and achieve faster Warp speeds compared to other ships and have extra power to go into the shields and weapons.
Double-edged sword.

Yet in spite of this "fact," the Enterprise can cruise for long periods of time at warp speed, while the Voyager for some reason is frequently seen in the middle of interstellar space traveling at impulse speeds (no pretty streaky lights).
Voyager's top cruising speed (as mentioned on-screen):
Warp 9.975.
It was seen most of the times at Warp actually, and other times at impulse (usually when something else was going on that required the ship to be out of Warp - exploration for example - which Janeway did on a regular basis - and later admitted that they could have been closer to home had they not spent a lot of the time exploring other things).
Oh and do correct me if I'm wrong, but during TNG, the Enterprise-D spend most of it's time skimming the edges of Federation space, always somehow being within an arms reach of Earth no less - instead of exploring the 'DEEP SPACE that lies beyond Federation territory') - plus it was at impulse most of the time.
So I kinda have to laugh at your comparison.

[/quote]
The AIM 7 (sparrow) missile has a 88 pound warhead, a AIM 9 (sidewinder) missile has a 20.8 pound warhead.

Simply having a higher number, doesn't automatically indicate a more powerful weapon. The Voyager torpedoes might carry a different model number, because her torpedo tubes are smaller.
[/quote]

I always found it laughable when people tried comparing contemporary technology with Trek's.
Even Picard laughed at Ralph's attempt in 'the neutral zone' when he tried comparing the Ent-D to an aircraft carrier in the late 20th century.
In the episode Dreadnought, Janeway mentioned that Voyager's type 6 photon torpedoes might just get through it's defenses because they were newer than the previous ones.
This can easily imply that they ARE more powerful versions of Type 4 torpedoes that came before.

If Voyager can carry them, likely other Starfleet ships can carry them as well. Various types of US Navy submarines carry the same model of torpedo.

Would Picard, Kirk or Sisko have fallen for the same trick?

Yes, quite old.
I agree with the premise that if Voyager can carry tricobalt devices, then other SF ships might be able to do the same, but, we've only seen them employed on Voyager for one thing (thus far), and they blew up an alien station that was by all intense and purposes technologically superior to anything the Feds had in just 2 shots.
Furthermore, it's possible Voyager had more of those, we've just never seen them in use because of their subspace disruptive capabilities (which is exactly why they wanted to use them to destroy a highly advanced alien station - circumstances were unique enough where usage of those weapons would be permitted - especially when maintaining the balance in the DQ was crucial).

[quote]the majority of Starfleet starship are "multi-mission.
[quote]
Actually, 'multi-purpose' would be the correct term if I'm not mistaken.
But to drive down a point he/she was making, it was NEVER stated that Voyager was a 'frigate', a 'light cruiser' or whatnot.

We've seen LaForge divert power, and turn off unnecessary systems before.
So did the Voyager crew.
Voyager's Warp core could have been of such a design that requires LARGER amounts of power than what the Galaxy class could produce, especially because of it's high warp speed capabilities, and to be able to power defensive/offensive systems that are comparable to the Galaxy class.

The Defiant was completely stripped of creature comforts for example and was apparently power-wise able to surpass other capital ships and fight the Dominion effectively (probably because of the plethora of anti-Borg techs that were designed along with it - which allowed for it to deal with the Jem'Hadar fighter ships with greater efficiency - of course, we've seen other SF ships do similar things to the enemy ships once the fleet was brought up to speed).

Voyager by contrast to the Galaxy class has some creature comforts, and high level of automation and only 150 crew (even though 100 was mentioned by Chakotay as needed to run the ship), but nothing on the scale the Galaxy class has.
And even with all those systems offline, the Intrepid's warp core by design alone could produce MORE power (which is used at a faster rate - 3 years - whereas the Galaxy can last 5 years).
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Old November 26 2011, 08:57 PM   #94
T'Girl
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Re: Intrepid class VS a galaxy class, which was more powerful and adva

Deks wrote: View Post
T'Girl wrote: View Post
We've seen the Enterprise fire ten torpedoes at once, out of a single tube, indicating that her tubes possess a larger diameter.
... we have no concrete information which says that the torpedo launchers on the Enterprise-D were any larger than the ones on the Intrepid.

The D displayed this ability only twice in early TNG.
The Enterprise exhibited more than twice the ability to fire once, and have what it fired "mirv" into multiple torpedoes. The first time was in the third episode, and I watch Unnatural Selection a few days ago where the ability was used again. Voyager never displayed the ability to fire multiple torpedoes in a single launch.

Given that the Enterprise can indeed fire a cluster of torpedoes together, this implies a larger launch tube.

T'Girl wrote: View Post
jpch wrote: View Post
coz voy was always using torp as a last resort since they were 70 years away from the nearest starbase
And apparently had the manufacturing ability to make more.
It was stated in early Season 1 of Voyager by Janeway that they could not replace the torpedoes once they were gone.
Janeway: "And no way to replace them after they're gone." The ship was only several weeks away from being brought into the Delta Quad which had badly damaged it, and Voyager was running very low on energy reserves. Possibly Janeway meant under the then current circumstances. Circumstances which did change over time,

the intrepid ... its shields... protect the ship inside a star ]
Hey, remember when the Enterprise's chief medical officer (while in command) did that for the first time, years before Voyager did?
But Voyager's shields were already by nature alone multi-phasic - fully integrated, whereas the Enterprise-D at the time had the program separately.
Point being the Enterprise developed the method years before Voyager was even constructed. Voyager was the beneficiary of the Enterprise's previous discovery.

Verbal statements by the production staff, while interesting, are non-canon.
To that end, you freely ignore on-screen statements which say that Humans don't employ a money based economy.
What does that have to do with this thread?

And should you mention how I was doing the same when making the case against evidence for usage of money on ...
What does that have to do with this thread?

Ralph's attempt in 'the neutral zone' when he tried comparing the Ent-D to an aircraft carrier
Ralph Offenhouse made reference to the Queen Elizabeth Two, a passager liner. And he wasn't comparing the two ships, he said Picard could take lessons from the QE Two in the area of efficient operations.

Oh and do correct me if I'm wrong, but during TNG, the Enterprise-D spend most of it's time skimming the edges of Federation space ...
Okay, you're wrong.

The Enterprise spent a great deal of time well inside Federation territory, visiting previously contacted planets, Starbases, running medicine to Federation planets, twice in the first season alone they went to the neutral zone.

They did venture outside the Federation on occasion. The Enterprise slowed to impulse upon arriving at a destination. Frequently Voyager was seen at impulse speeds at the beginning of episodes in interstellar space, prior to any cause for it.

.
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Old November 27 2011, 11:21 AM   #95
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Re: Intrepid class VS a galaxy class, which was more powerful and adva

Voyager also had the Magic Shuttlebay, which was bigger on the inside than it was on the outside
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Old November 27 2011, 01:33 PM   #96
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Re: Intrepid class VS a galaxy class, which was more powerful and adva

To match her Captains ego, her Operations Officers confidence and her Helmboy's libido.
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Old November 27 2011, 03:49 PM   #97
Deks
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Re: Intrepid class VS a galaxy class, which was more powerful and adva

T'Girl wrote: View Post
The Enterprise exhibited more than twice the ability to fire once, and have what it fired "mirv" into multiple torpedoes. The first time was in the third episode, and I watch Unnatural Selection a few days ago where the ability was used again. Voyager never displayed the ability to fire multiple torpedoes in a single launch.
Given that the Enterprise can indeed fire a cluster of torpedoes together, this implies a larger launch tube.
3 times (at best) in the original timeline and once in an alternate timeline did the Enterprise-D display multiple torpedoes fired simultaneously.
All of which were in the early seasons.
I also seem to recall them firing phasers from a TORPEDO TUBE (although this FX mishap happened on Voyager as well).

Still, the ability to fire multiple torpedoes at once doesn't prove the Enterprise-D had a bigger launcher, or that Voyager didn't have same capabilities.
Plus, the Enterprise-D in Season 4 and onward did not display these abilities.

The later FX dumbed down technical capabilities of ships through ALL of the shows in later seasons to make it look 'dramatic' - and often, the superior abilities of ships were displayed as a 'one time thing, then later forgotten'.

Have you also forgotten that the Enterprise-D had the capacity to traverse millions of Ly's in just a few hundred years in Season 1 after the traveller threw them well beyond their own galaxy?
Oh that's right, I seem to recall that later on, the Warp capabilities were severely dumbed down.

Janeway: "And no way to replace them after they're gone." The ship was only several weeks away from being brought into the Delta Quad which had badly damaged it, and Voyager was running very low on energy reserves. Possibly Janeway meant under the then current circumstances. Circumstances which did change over time
I'm glad we agree on something.
:-)
The point here is that replacing or manufacturing new torpedoes is probably something any star-ship can do if they have all of the materials.
Most of the torpedo components can be replicated in parts and assembled later on when extra anti-matter is found or produced - which can easily mean that the ship simply made new ones while trading with cultures that were friendly (after they left Kazon territory of course).

Point being the Enterprise developed the method years before Voyager was even constructed. Voyager was the beneficiary of the Enterprise's previous discovery.
Actually, the shield program was developed by a Ferengi scientist.
The Enterprise was also the beneficiary of the said invention much like Voyager was, only Voyager got it fully integrated (and it wouldn't be a stretch to think all other ships received this modification).

What does that have to do with this thread?
I was commenting on how you previously selectively disregarded information stated as canon (as in what is presented on TV) when you mentioned that it's the only viable source that should be taken into account.

Ralph Offenhouse made reference to the Queen Elizabeth Two, a passager liner. And he wasn't comparing the two ships, he said Picard could take lessons from the QE Two in the area of efficient operations.
And by that token alone he WAS making comparisons between the inner workings of a previous era ship to one that is taking place centuries later.
Point being, making comparisons between such aspects is utterly pointless because the whole premise of the scene and the dealings with humans from the past was to illustrate the differences between humanity of the past and future.
Ds9 often butchered this premise because they thought the viewers won't have anything to 'relate to' (utterly stupid in my personal opinion).

The Enterprise spent a great deal of time well inside Federation territory, visiting previously contacted planets, Starbases, running medicine to Federation planets, twice in the first season alone they went to the neutral zone.

They did venture outside the Federation on occasion. The Enterprise slowed to impulse upon arriving at a destination.
Actually the Enterprise-D WAS in fact skimming on the edges of Federation space, with most of the time being inside of it - thank you for the addon btw, but one can 'skim' the edge of Federation space while still being inside of it.
Point being, Enterprise-D was made for deep space exploration and it was shown to be doing anything but that.
Voyager fulfilled that role instead.

Frequently Voyager was seen at impulse speeds at the beginning of episodes in interstellar space, prior to any cause for it.
And as I already said, Voyager spent most of it's time at Warp during episode openings (maybe 60% or more).
Other times, when it was at impulse, it was due to exploration or a problem that was happening.
Nothing unusual - and perfectly justifiable.
They are explorers btw (as Janeway frequently mentioned - plus she also said how exploratory missions added to the ship's trip back to the Alpha Quadrant).
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Old November 27 2011, 05:02 PM   #98
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Re: Intrepid class VS a galaxy class, which was more powerful and adva

jpch wrote: View Post
Stupid people saying stupid stuff as usual.




4- if u know physics or at least logic u will understand that Size and weight in space are irrelevant=> meaning that the more power u produce the faster u can move. intrepids max speed is warp 9.975 while galaxy can reach 9.6 or 9.8 and might risk ripping itself apart (stated on screen) clearly intrepid has a far more advanced and powerful warp core( the first mark 9 core voy was the first ship to test its power episode relativity) thus voyager has same if not more power output then the galaxy for its phasers and shields and speed.
in addition on season 3 in tng they said that the galaxy has mark 4 photon torpedoes quite powerful,but on episode scorpion of voy they said that an intrepid has mark 6 photon torp far more powerful then a galaxy,altho the compliment of a galaxy is alot larger.
plus voy had 2 tricobalt devices their yield is massive( they destroyed a huge array) and were able to rip a hole in subspace clearly even more powerful then quantum torpedoes,tho the intrepid only carries 2 of them.
Just because i's the latest doesn't automatically mean it's the most powerful. We can infer from DSN, that Starfleet usually puts in warp cores with a suitable power output for a vessel of that size. The Defiant was stated to be overpowered for a ship of her size.

As for Torpedeo's TNG took place in the era of 2364-2371ish, whilst Voyager takes place around 2371-2378. So perhaps by that time Starfleet was in the process of replacing the older torpedeos on all it's vessel. As the actual casing design seems to have changed little from at least the 2280's.

Remember output from the warp core is only one part of forming a warp field. That's down to the nacelles and Warp Coils,
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Old November 27 2011, 11:18 PM   #99
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Re: Intrepid class VS a galaxy class, which was more powerful and adva

One ship is 10x ( T E N T I M E S ) larger than the other! Let that sink in for a minute.

No amount of "advancement" can overcome an order of magnitude in size in mere 7 years, unless Federation is advancing so fast that by the end of the 24th century, they've transmuted into Q. Neither real world, nor Star Trek universe work like that.

You're dealing with a Heavy Cruiser/Light Frigate relationship. Perhaps Intrepid has the same mision profile as Galaxy, except with significantly reduced capabilities in order to facilitate faster and simpler construction times, and larger number of ships in order to cover a large area of space.

Some of you have an admirable attitude towards "your" ship, but don't make her into something she's not.

Length of these ships can be a bit misleading, but the total size paints a different picture. The front view of the two ships really puts them in their respective places.



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Old November 27 2011, 11:52 PM   #100
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Re: Intrepid class VS a galaxy class, which was more powerful and adva

It was evident on more than one occasion in Trek that 'size doesn't matter'.
The Defiant was much smaller than Voyager as well, and that ship was able to tear through a Jem'Hadaar attack fighter with ease whereas a Galaxy class could not an episode earlier.

So... power-wise, the Defiant outclassed a Galaxy class.

You cannot simply make an arbitrary statement that 'bigger=better'.
SF was able to cram extremely powerful weapons onto a ship that's nothing more than a mosquito when compared to the Galaxy class... and come out partly victorious in a battle where the latter failed completely.

Compared to the Galaxy class, Voyager has a minimum of 'recreational systems' that are abundant on Voyager and far larger crew compliment (for which the life support is a huge demand on power reserves alone).

It's not a stretch to think that if the Defiant can accommodate very high power output, then Voyager most certainly could (plus the Intrepid had to have a powerful warp core for being able to achieve a sustainable cruise velocity of Warp 9.975 - which is orders of magnitude higher than the Enterprise-D because the incremental increases in warp factors as you get closer to Warp 10 threshold create exponential differential in speeds).
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Old November 28 2011, 03:25 AM   #101
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Re: Intrepid class VS a galaxy class, which was more powerful and adva

Deks wrote: View Post
It was evident on more than one occasion in Trek that 'size doesn't matter'.
The Defiant was much smaller than Voyager as well, and that ship was able to tear through a Jem'Hadaar attack fighter with ease whereas a Galaxy class could not an episode earlier.

So... power-wise, the Defiant outclassed a Galaxy class.

You cannot simply make an arbitrary statement that 'bigger=better'.
SF was able to cram extremely powerful weapons onto a ship that's nothing more than a mosquito when compared to the Galaxy class... and come out partly victorious in a battle where the latter failed completely.

Compared to the Galaxy class, Voyager has a minimum of 'recreational systems' that are abundant on Voyager and far larger crew compliment (for which the life support is a huge demand on power reserves alone).

It's not a stretch to think that if the Defiant can accommodate very high power output, then Voyager most certainly could (plus the Intrepid had to have a powerful warp core for being able to achieve a sustainable cruise velocity of Warp 9.975 - which is orders of magnitude higher than the Enterprise-D because the incremental increases in warp factors as you get closer to Warp 10 threshold create exponential differential in speeds).
That's not what the episode shows. Defiant blew up little bugs because it closed to within 500 meters before opening fire. Galaxy class couldn't do that due to being much less manuevarable and had to engage at distance. Even then, it took a kamikaze attack agains damaged Odyssey to bring her down. Defiant was better suited to engaging small ships at close range, which is what she does throughout the series. You don't see her attack the Vor'cha in Way of the Warrior do you?

And as I said, it's not an arbitrary statement. It's how the real world as well as Star Trek works. In Star Trek, bigger ships have always had all sorts of advantages over smaller ships. What other instances other than the Defiant are you reffering to? Defiant was the only exception, and even then, they made the effort to show how it was negatively affected by so much power, including its speed being limited to Warp 9.5. Its main phasers are so powerful because they are of the pulse variety and because they drain power directly from the EPS, which is something that is not done with regular ships. Never are such statements made in connection with Voyager. Voyager is decribed as "Not as big as the Galaxy class, but she is quick and smart." That's markedly different from "Not as big as Galaxy, but vastly more powerful". Defiant was built as a warship from ground up (main asset being it's manuevarability and abletive armor against Borg), while Voyager is a small exploration vessel given to a science captain.

A bigger ship like the Galaxy would have:
1. Bigger and/or more shield generators.
2. Bigger warp core (12 decks as opposed to 6 IRCC?)
3. Longer phaser arrays with more space inside to house the supporting equipment
4. Better torpedo launchers. Those launchers on the Galaxy seem to be 30-50 meters long.
5. More computer cores
6. All sorts of reduntant systems like extra transporters, shuttles (including 2 runabouts), cargo space, fuel space, larger torpedo complement, spare parts, etc etc..

It's very, very unlikely that in 7 years all those systems would have changed so much that they could be minituarized by a factor of 10. If by some crazy remote chance they did, Starfleet would have never built Galaxy, Sovereign or any of the other big ships in the first place, knowing that such technology is just around the corner. That being said, we see new Galaxies being built on a couple of occasions on Utopia Planitia (one of them at the same time as Voyager), so all new technologies will be part of the new ships.

As for the speed issue, Enterprise had a maximum speed of 9.3 and was the fastest ship in the fleet if I'm not mistaken, but later in the show, that moves up to 9.6 without any external changes to the ship. When Voyager comes around, there is a new maximum speed, and then Prometheus takes over the mantle. The general trend in Starfleet seems to be that the speeds go up all the time, there is no reason to believe that all ships are not there and therebouts. Nebula seems to catch up to Prometheus just fine in "Message in the Bottle." Prometheus and Intrepid might still be the fastest in terms of sustainable cruise, or they might not, we don't know how it all works when it comes to speed because, as someone pointed out, warp coils, warp field geometry, etc all play a part.

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Old November 28 2011, 10:25 AM   #102
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Re: Intrepid class VS a galaxy class, which was more powerful and adva

Ignoring the technical manuals (because the writers of the shows did), Voyager and the Enterpise-D had the same capabilities. They flew the same kind of missions without trouble. Enterprise could seperate, Voyager could land, but that was it. Everything else is meaningless technobabble.
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Old November 28 2011, 12:35 PM   #103
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Re: Intrepid class VS a galaxy class, which was more powerful and adva

The Defiants proximity to the JemHadaar ships was of little consequence.
Phasers have a maximum effective range of 300 000 km, and from a visual point of view, the Oddysey was at the same distance from the bugs just like the Defiant was.
The bugs were coming AT the Galaxy class and were a stones throw away.

A bigger ship like the Galaxy would have:
1. Bigger and/or more shield generators.
2. Bigger warp core (12 decks as opposed to 6 IRCC?)
3. Longer phaser arrays with more space inside to house the supporting equipment
4. Better torpedo launchers. Those launchers on the Galaxy seem to be 30-50 meters long.
5. More computer cores
6. All sorts of reduntant systems like extra transporters, shuttles (including 2 runabouts), cargo space, fuel space, larger torpedo complement, spare parts, etc etc..
1. We have no concrete evidence that suggests a larger ship would have 'more shield generators'. In fact, most of the evidence points to 1 primary and 1 auxiliary generator... the rest are emitters for coverage purposes.
2. Large warp core doesn't equate 'more power'. It could though mean that the Galaxy class can go on for 5 years without refilling, whereas Voyager can do 3 at same power levels.
Each ship comes with it's own warp core design on purpose. The inherent core design on Voyager could implement compression techniques that only work on that type of core in the first place and cannot be implemented on larger ones. The resulting effect would produce equal power generation to that of a Galaxy class, but because it's producing those levels of energy and the core is of that size, the core 'empties' faster.
3. Longer phaser arrays were never associated with more power on-screen. Mere coverage is all I saw when it came to canon evidence. Voyager can sport enough space for it's own phaser arrays just fine. And in case you hadn't noticed, the ship has much fewer crew size and 'amenities' compared to the Galaxy class (all of which can contribute easily to better defenses and offenses).
4. Canon source that the torpedo tubes on the Galaxy class are 30 to 50 meters long?
5. 0 evidence that there is more than 1 primary and 1 auxiliary computer core onboard ANY SF ship.
6. More space goes in favor to the Galaxy as it can house more supplies/torpedoes and resources to last them longer... Voyager can hold fewer torpedoes/supplies and resources due to it's much smaller volume, but it would be appropriate for a ship that size and that ships' core can still go on for 3 years compared to the Galaxy class 5 years mark (which again doesn't equate that the Galaxy would be able to churn out more power).

Yes, ships have been progressively becoming faster over time, but the point remains, Voyager can generate enough power from the get go to sustain a cruising speed of 9.975, whereas the Galaxy class maximum war was enhanced by 0.3 (and is STILL lower than Voyager's) in 7 years.

As for the Nebula class ships catching up to the Prometheus.
That depends from which direction they were coming at the ship, and how far away they initially were, and a plethora of other aspects one would have to take into account.
Plus, we don't know if the Prometheus was pushing maximum warp prior to the time of combat.

Incidentally, Voyager, the Defiant and Sovereign class ships were made after the Borg attack in BoBW.
They had motivation to design/construct smaller and more powerful ships because they knew the idea probably had merit and they would save up on construction times as well.
And holding off on the Galaxy class because they might have known the tech 'is just around the corner' is a bit idiotic.
They made that class of ship for exploratory purposes apparently, and there's no reason to think they would not build it either way.
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Old November 28 2011, 10:55 PM   #104
EmperorTiberius
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Re: Intrepid class VS a galaxy class, which was more powerful and adva

Deks wrote: View Post
The Defiants proximity to the JemHadaar ships was of little consequence.
Phasers have a maximum effective range of 300 000 km, and from a visual point of view, the Oddysey was at the same distance from the bugs just like the Defiant was.
The bugs were coming AT the Galaxy class and were a stones throw away.

A bigger ship like the Galaxy would have:
1. Bigger and/or more shield generators.
2. Bigger warp core (12 decks as opposed to 6 IRCC?)
3. Longer phaser arrays with more space inside to house the supporting equipment
4. Better torpedo launchers. Those launchers on the Galaxy seem to be 30-50 meters long.
5. More computer cores
6. All sorts of reduntant systems like extra transporters, shuttles (including 2 runabouts), cargo space, fuel space, larger torpedo complement, spare parts, etc etc..
1. We have no concrete evidence that suggests a larger ship would have 'more shield generators'. In fact, most of the evidence points to 1 primary and 1 auxiliary generator... the rest are emitters for coverage purposes.
2. Large warp core doesn't equate 'more power'. It could though mean that the Galaxy class can go on for 5 years without refilling, whereas Voyager can do 3 at same power levels.
Each ship comes with it's own warp core design on purpose. The inherent core design on Voyager could implement compression techniques that only work on that type of core in the first place and cannot be implemented on larger ones. The resulting effect would produce equal power generation to that of a Galaxy class, but because it's producing those levels of energy and the core is of that size, the core 'empties' faster.
3. Longer phaser arrays were never associated with more power on-screen. Mere coverage is all I saw when it came to canon evidence. Voyager can sport enough space for it's own phaser arrays just fine. And in case you hadn't noticed, the ship has much fewer crew size and 'amenities' compared to the Galaxy class (all of which can contribute easily to better defenses and offenses).
4. Canon source that the torpedo tubes on the Galaxy class are 30 to 50 meters long?
5. 0 evidence that there is more than 1 primary and 1 auxiliary computer core onboard ANY SF ship.
6. More space goes in favor to the Galaxy as it can house more supplies/torpedoes and resources to last them longer... Voyager can hold fewer torpedoes/supplies and resources due to it's much smaller volume, but it would be appropriate for a ship that size and that ships' core can still go on for 3 years compared to the Galaxy class 5 years mark (which again doesn't equate that the Galaxy would be able to churn out more power).

Yes, ships have been progressively becoming faster over time, but the point remains, Voyager can generate enough power from the get go to sustain a cruising speed of 9.975, whereas the Galaxy class maximum war was enhanced by 0.3 (and is STILL lower than Voyager's) in 7 years.

As for the Nebula class ships catching up to the Prometheus.
That depends from which direction they were coming at the ship, and how far away they initially were, and a plethora of other aspects one would have to take into account.
Plus, we don't know if the Prometheus was pushing maximum warp prior to the time of combat.

Incidentally, Voyager, the Defiant and Sovereign class ships were made after the Borg attack in BoBW.
They had motivation to design/construct smaller and more powerful ships because they knew the idea probably had merit and they would save up on construction times as well.
And holding off on the Galaxy class because they might have known the tech 'is just around the corner' is a bit idiotic.
They made that class of ship for exploratory purposes apparently, and there's no reason to think they would not build it either way.
Hmm, to each his own I guess. When they offer you the commission, you can take Intrepid, I'll stick to Galaxy or Sovereign...after all, that's where T'Girl is going to be, right?
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Old November 29 2011, 04:14 AM   #105
exodus
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Re: Intrepid class VS a galaxy class, which was more powerful and adva

I'd say there near equal due to tactical reasons.
the Enterprise is bigger, so it may carry more fire power but it was my understanding Voyager's tech is equal to the Enterprise just smaller and faster.
I would guess due to that, the ENT would have a harder time getting a solid target lock on a smaller faster moving object allowing Voy. to hit vital spots on the ENT. disabling it.
That was the idea behind the Defiant.
Smaller, faster to hit vital areas with greater success.
I would assume the fight between ENT. & Voy. would be like an OX trying to swat a fly with it's tail. That Ox might get a direct hit on that fly eventually but not before that fly has annoyed that Ox to no end.
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