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Old March 28 2009, 11:48 PM   #76
black_dranzer
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Re: Intrepid class VS a galaxy class, which was more powerful and adva

Praetor wrote: View Post
black_dranzer wrote: View Post

From "Caretaker": "Some of the traditional circuitry has been replaced by gel packs that contain bio-neural cells. They organise information more efficiently, speed up response time"
Pretty explicit, and a bit of rather awkward exposition, IMO. Why exactly did they feel they needed to spell that tidbit out so clearly to the viewer in the pilot? I remember thinking that was going to tie in somehow with the organic nature of the Caretaker's physiology and his 'experiments' yet it didn't.
When has Star Trek ever been afraid to show off it's shiny new technobabble just because it can

For that matter, why was Stadi just rattling off statistics for Paris in the first place? Pilot to pilot bonding?
Maybe some sort of pride in her ship? I dunno, the tone she was using always made me think that she was sort of...boasting about how great Voyager was.

Gkar wrote: View Post
Verkruk wrote: View Post
I disagree with the notion that a smaller sized ship is incapable of matching a fire output of a larger one.
Look at Jem Hadar attack fighters!!!
*looks*

Okay. And?

I see no evidence that a Jem'Hadar attack fighter produces an output to match a larger vessel.
The attack fighter seems to vary in power throughout the series. In the first encounter, a Galaxy-class starship can't even destroy one, mainly to emphasise at the time how much of a threat the Dominion is, as it's the first episode in which they're directly encountered, yet later on in the series a runabout is able to destroy one on its own (albeit with tactical information of the vessel's weakpoint). Of course, as you say, the destruction of the Odyssey came before the Federation adapted its shields to actually work against the Dominion's phased polaron beams, but still - the difference in firepower between a Galaxy-class and a runabout has to be pretty significant...
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Old March 29 2009, 01:37 AM   #77
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Re: Intrepid class VS a galaxy class, which was more powerful and adva

black_dranzer wrote: View Post
Gkar wrote: View Post

Look at Jem Hadar attack fighters!!!
*looks*

Okay. And?

I see no evidence that a Jem'Hadar attack fighter produces an output to match a larger vessel.
The attack fighter seems to vary in power throughout the series. In the first encounter, a Galaxy-class starship can't even destroy one, mainly to emphasis at the time how much of a threat the Dominion is, as it's the first episode in which they're directly encountered, yet later on in the series a runabout is able to destroy one on its own (albeit with tactical information of the vessel's weakpoint). Of course, as you say, the destruction of the Odyssey came before the Federation adapted its shields to actually work against the Dominion's phased polaron beams, but still - the difference in firepower between a Galaxy-class and a runabout has to be pretty significant...
But I'd maintain that it's not the firepower at issue here - it's the technology of the Dominion versus the technology of the Federation. I think the incident you mention of the runabout being able to destroy one helps reinforce this.

It all works at the power of the pen though.
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Old March 29 2009, 08:46 AM   #78
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Re: Intrepid class VS a galaxy class, which was more powerful and adva

Praetor wrote: View Post
black_dranzer wrote: View Post

*looks*

Okay. And?

I see no evidence that a Jem'Hadar attack fighter produces an output to match a larger vessel.
The attack fighter seems to vary in power throughout the series. In the first encounter, a Galaxy-class starship can't even destroy one, mainly to emphasis at the time how much of a threat the Dominion is, as it's the first episode in which they're directly encountered, yet later on in the series a runabout is able to destroy one on its own (albeit with tactical information of the vessel's weakpoint). Of course, as you say, the destruction of the Odyssey came before the Federation adapted its shields to actually work against the Dominion's phased polaron beams, but still - the difference in firepower between a Galaxy-class and a runabout has to be pretty significant...
But I'd maintain that it's not the firepower at issue here - it's the technology of the Dominion versus the technology of the Federation. I think the incident you mention of the runabout being able to destroy one helps reinforce this.

It all works at the power of the pen though.
True, wasn't Dominion tech supposed to be roughly 20 years ahead of Federation tech at the start of the war? Certainly their transporters are far more advanced, having a longer range and the ability to beam through shields, however Federation technology seems to catch up fairly quickly in some areas, and during the war Federation engineers are known even in the Dominion as being able to turn "rocks to replicators"
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Old March 30 2009, 12:49 AM   #79
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Re: Intrepid class VS a galaxy class, which was more powerful and adva

I think what we see is a disparity between focus in the two groups' technology, more than anything else.

I surmise that the Dominion focused more on innovations that would render them tactically superior, whereas the Federation focused on technology that could both benefit its people and aid exploration. Dominion ships were said to be slower than Federation ships, while Dominion ships could easily slice through Federation shields and hulls, and possessed transporters capable of beaming them light years away.

I think the main 'great equalizer' was the Dominion's possession of polaron-based technology, which apparently the Federation wasn't very experienced with or prepared to counteract. I think the adaptation to this is why the Federation seemed to 'even out' with the Dominion so quickly.
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Old April 14 2009, 07:51 AM   #80
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Re: Intrepid class VS a galaxy class, which was more powerful and adva

kent wrote: View Post
i guess this thread picked up interest lol....


I'd have to agree with the notion that smaller isn't always weaker, after reading some of the responses here.

Yes a galaxy class has way more reserves in general and therefore has better longevity...for now.

But an Intrepid class has systems that are an evolutionary step FROM the galaxy class. It's specific intention was to create a more or less equal ship to the galaxy in an easier to build, more efficient, and quicker package.

Just because it's smaller doesn't mean it's warp core is less powerful (defiant class, four decks. Prometheus class, 15 decks. Constitution class {in its day} was 21 decks or so, and minus the neck about the same size if not smaller), and just because it's smaller doesn't mean it's less capable.

Real life example: Compare the laptops of today, then compare them with the computers of the 60's. Laptops are literally lap tops, with the computing capability computers that took up an ENTIRE room in the 60's only wished for. More on the lines of Voyager from TNG: Intrepid's were launched about 8 years or so from the initial batches of galaxy class starships. Now we have I-Pods that are less than half the size of my hand, and mini SD-cards for digital camera's and phones. 8 years ago we didn't have that.

My point is technology can just fly with advancement, and just because something is smaller doesn't make it less capable. In fact, looking at the history of the past 60 years, I'd venture to say that smaller technology is almost always better....

So all in all, the interpid class might be smaller, but could very well have been designed to compete with larger ship class'. It makes sense if Starfleet doesn't want to build large ships, thus putting "all their eggs in one basket". Plus larger ships take forever to build. A galaxy, 4-6 years or so normal time. An Intrepid, with more or less equal capability, half that time.

which makes more sense?
In this case size does make a difference.
Larger engine with the same effectiveness would equal more power.

And with the way that phasers work, the Intrepid wouldn't stand a chance.
Its arrays are just to small in comparison to a Galaxy.
The more emitters you have the more power you are capable of putting into a single shot. The Galaxy obviously has a far greater number of emitters then the Intrepid. It is also capable of firring 10 torpedoes from a single tube.(20 if combined fore and aft)

Lets also keep in mind that the Galaxy has continually received upgrades over the course of her lifetime. So she isn't 10 years older in tech then the Intrepid... just in framework
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Old April 18 2009, 05:23 PM   #81
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Re: Intrepid class VS a galaxy class, which was more powerful and adva

Like the previous poster said, as of the present time (Trek Time), the Galaxy and the Intrepids were both continually upgraded, with that said, I would venture that the Galaxy Class would win out because the Galaxy Class had more powerful phasers (given the length of the phaser strips), two torpedo launchers capable of firing ten torpedos each and in quick succession, bigger crew (more crewmembers, more damage control), and the fact that the same or improved technology on a smaller vessel does equate the two vessels.

Galaxy Class had the role of a battlecruiser/battleship (similar to the HMS Hood, the Hood would been more powerful if the planned refit was able to be implented) The Galaxy Class was fast, powerful, and the perfect image of Federation might.

Intrepid Class can be inferred that they are a powerful light cruiser (one in similar role to the Deutschland Class, in which a couple of the members took on larger and/more vessels) The Intrepid was fast, innovative, and perfect for first strike and retreat missions.
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Old April 19 2009, 02:57 AM   #82
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Re: Intrepid class VS a galaxy class, which was more powerful and adva

It's important the remember that the production designers sometimes referred to Voyager as the equivalent of a destroyer to the Enterprise's battleship.
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Old April 19 2009, 04:07 AM   #83
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Re: Intrepid class VS a galaxy class, which was more powerful and adva

Galaxy class rules all. The only specific advantage the Intrepid class has is higher max warp speed.

Given how often Voyager was running out of energy and other critical supplies I would take the superior endurance of the Galaxy in any deep space mission.

Also raw speed is not the end all and be all of total computer power. Storage is also key. The Binars sought out the Enterprise for a reason. The Enterprise has three huge and reduant computer cores.

I have never been sold on the usefulness of bio-neural packs either. I fail to see how such a system can lead to any net increase in processing speed. Iso-linear chips are already operating FTL.

If Seven had the resources of a Galaxy class computer system and astrometrics lab, which races would have stood in Janeway's path?
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Old April 19 2009, 05:15 AM   #84
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Re: Intrepid class VS a galaxy class, which was more powerful and adva

And the Odyssey lasted about 12 seconds against the Jem'hadar and Mirror Enterprise in Yesterdays Enterprise, Picard and Riker talked a good game, but fuck it, they didn't get a shot off before the Klingons murdered them

But what about the names?

Galaxy Class is just about limitations, since on one hand you can say "We can travel the entire galaxy!" compared to "We can only travel this galaxy" which is a bald faced lie really since the Federation had only explored 1/12 of the Galaxy by 2366... It's kind of like how your kid gets super drunk on power because you let her back the car out of the garage and down the driveway for you.

Meanwhile... The only Starship Intrepid I know about was that ship crewed completely by Vulcans from the Immunity Syndrome. Xenophobic isolationists creating a bolt hole complaining about the superluminal stink created by human beings surrounded by an egregious society of hand holding communists... Who got ate by a microbe the size of a star system? Bigots doomed by the ridiculous and unlikely Class of Starship more likely... But whoever was in charge of naming these things had a bit of a sense of Humour since if you'd care to recall the megadeath associated with the V'Ger Rampage from 2279... What next? The USS Herman Goeing?
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Old April 19 2009, 05:21 AM   #85
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Re: Intrepid class VS a galaxy class, which was more powerful and adva

Guy Gardener wrote: View Post
But whoever was in charge of naming these things had a bit of a sense of Humour since if you'd care to recall the megadeath associated with the V'Ger Rampage from 2279... What next? The USS Herman Goeing?
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Old November 22 2011, 10:03 PM   #86
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Re: Intrepid class VS a galaxy class, which was more powerful and adva

Stupid people saying stupid stuff as usual.

1-intrepid is not a science vessel or a patrol ship or a light cruiser( there is no canonical on screen evidence)cause it was armed with 14 phaser arrays and had 4 torp launchers lol,galaxy class has 12 arrays and 2 launchers. ur gonna say a galaxy can fire more maybe. or maybe not coz voy was always using torp as a last resort since they were 70 years away from the nearest starbase,on some occasions voy displayed a large firepower ( dark frontier voy fired 6 photon torpedoes in a row in 1.5 sec. episode night they fired 5 then 3 aft rapidly)

2-the intrepid was the most technologically advanced ship starfleet had at the time. its shields were quite superior then a galaxy class as we have seen them protect the ship inside a star or even an exploding planetoid (eps: scientific method/think tank)
in addition they could handle multiple barrages from 3 vidiian warships(resolutions) im not gonna talk about the kazon since they were inferior to the fed when it comes to tech but the vidiians were as advanced or even more then the federation.
plus Voyagers shields survived an assault from a borg tactical cube,ofc the ship was damaged but the shields were clearly far more advanced from a galaxy the never got drained or taken offline.( people with arguments like plot holes/writers wanted that need to wake up writers can do whatever they want) anything that happens on screen is cannon and is not be questioned.

3-jery taylor ( writer in DS9 and VoY) stated that voy is smaller then a galaxy but outmatches it in tech and speed. Rick sternbach ( creator of both the galaxy and intrepid models and schematics) stated that intrepid has the same phaser arrays as galaxy (now ur gonna say that the galaxy has more power output,i will explain how that is untrue)

4- if u know physics or at least logic u will understand that Size and weight in space are irrelevant=> meaning that the more power u produce the faster u can move. intrepids max speed is warp 9.975 while galaxy can reach 9.6 or 9.8 and might risk ripping itself apart (stated on screen) clearly intrepid has a far more advanced and powerful warp core( the first mark 9 core voy was the first ship to test its power episode relativity) thus voyager has same if not more power output then the galaxy for its phasers and shields and speed.
in addition on season 3 in tng they said that the galaxy has mark 4 photon torpedoes quite powerful,but on episode scorpion of voy they said that an intrepid has mark 6 photon torp far more powerful then a galaxy,altho the compliment of a galaxy is alot larger.
plus voy had 2 tricobalt devices their yield is massive( they destroyed a huge array) and were able to rip a hole in subspace clearly even more powerful then quantum torpedoes,tho the intrepid only carries 2 of them.

for the people who said voy had trouble vs the kazon maybe they need to go back and watch the series again,the kazon never had a chance in basics they took over the ship coz of the guy who exploded himself inside causing a huge power drain.
the klingon old cruiser fired at least 5 torp and 2 disruptor blasts on the aft side and voy aft shield went down to 55% then with 3 phaser shots the cruiser was totally disabled and almost destroyed.

A Romulan warbird was stated on Tng episode Tin man something (forget the name watched it 15 years ago) to be more powerful then a galaxy class,also with a single barrage from it the enterprise D shields went down from 100 to 30% and picard stated that they could have destroyed us if the wanted to.
on voy episode learning curve,intrepid battles 1 warbird barely holding on and then battles 2 warbirds and get destroyed quite easily.

i think both ships are almost identical with combat potential,intrepid has the agility and tech advantage and more energy reserves for shields from its core while the galaxy has the large resources(more torp) and its big size(more hull strength) advantage.
both vessels have been stated on screen to be explorer type ships and not made for combat but are well equipped to defend themselves or launch a counter attack. keep in mind that the galaxy has alot of luxuries like 16 holodecks 5 massive saloons,a large theater,10 gyms,schools,civilians on board its clearly not a battleship since all of those things require a lot of power and drain to keep them active,while the intrepid is stripped form all onthose extras just has what it needs. the intrepid is slightly a superior vessel combat wise.
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Old November 23 2011, 01:22 PM   #87
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Re: Intrepid class VS a galaxy class, which was more powerful and adva

I think the ships were as powerful as the writers wanted them to be in each episode. Heck, the Enterprise-E magically sprouted a dozen new torpedo tubes during Nemesis. The TOS Enterprise had it's warp drive pimped by the Kelvans to speeds well over warp 10, only for warp 6 to be their maximum speed a few episodes later
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Old November 23 2011, 03:29 PM   #88
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Re: Intrepid class VS a galaxy class, which was more powerful and adva

jpch wrote: View Post
Stupid people saying stupid stuff as usual.

1-intrepid is not a science vessel or a patrol ship or a light cruiser( there is no canonical on screen evidence)cause it was armed with 14 phaser arrays and had 4 torp launchers lol,galaxy class has 12 arrays and 2 launchers. ur gonna say a galaxy can fire more maybe. or maybe not coz voy was always using torp as a last resort since they were 70 years away from the nearest starbase,on some occasions voy displayed a large firepower ( dark frontier voy fired 6 photon torpedoes in a row in 1.5 sec. episode night they fired 5 then 3 aft rapidly)

2-the intrepid was the most technologically advanced ship starfleet had at the time. its shields were quite superior then a galaxy class as we have seen them protect the ship inside a star or even an exploding planetoid (eps: scientific method/think tank)
in addition they could handle multiple barrages from 3 vidiian warships(resolutions) im not gonna talk about the kazon since they were inferior to the fed when it comes to tech but the vidiians were as advanced or even more then the federation.
plus Voyagers shields survived an assault from a borg tactical cube,ofc the ship was damaged but the shields were clearly far more advanced from a galaxy the never got drained or taken offline.( people with arguments like plot holes/writers wanted that need to wake up writers can do whatever they want) anything that happens on screen is cannon and is not be questioned.

3-jery taylor ( writer in DS9 and VoY) stated that voy is smaller then a galaxy but outmatches it in tech and speed. Rick sternbach ( creator of both the galaxy and intrepid models and schematics) stated that intrepid has the same phaser arrays as galaxy (now ur gonna say that the galaxy has more power output,i will explain how that is untrue)

4- if u know physics or at least logic u will understand that Size and weight in space are irrelevant=> meaning that the more power u produce the faster u can move. intrepids max speed is warp 9.975 while galaxy can reach 9.6 or 9.8 and might risk ripping itself apart (stated on screen) clearly intrepid has a far more advanced and powerful warp core( the first mark 9 core voy was the first ship to test its power episode relativity) thus voyager has same if not more power output then the galaxy for its phasers and shields and speed.
in addition on season 3 in tng they said that the galaxy has mark 4 photon torpedoes quite powerful,but on episode scorpion of voy they said that an intrepid has mark 6 photon torp far more powerful then a galaxy,altho the compliment of a galaxy is alot larger.
plus voy had 2 tricobalt devices their yield is massive( they destroyed a huge array) and were able to rip a hole in subspace clearly even more powerful then quantum torpedoes,tho the intrepid only carries 2 of them.

for the people who said voy had trouble vs the kazon maybe they need to go back and watch the series again,the kazon never had a chance in basics they took over the ship coz of the guy who exploded himself inside causing a huge power drain.
the klingon old cruiser fired at least 5 torp and 2 disruptor blasts on the aft side and voy aft shield went down to 55% then with 3 phaser shots the cruiser was totally disabled and almost destroyed.

A Romulan warbird was stated on Tng episode Tin man something (forget the name watched it 15 years ago) to be more powerful then a galaxy class,also with a single barrage from it the enterprise D shields went down from 100 to 30% and picard stated that they could have destroyed us if the wanted to.
on voy episode learning curve,intrepid battles 1 warbird barely holding on and then battles 2 warbirds and get destroyed quite easily.

i think both ships are almost identical with combat potential,intrepid has the agility and tech advantage and more energy reserves for shields from its core while the galaxy has the large resources(more torp) and its big size(more hull strength) advantage.
both vessels have been stated on screen to be explorer type ships and not made for combat but are well equipped to defend themselves or launch a counter attack. keep in mind that the galaxy has alot of luxuries like 16 holodecks 5 massive saloons,a large theater,10 gyms,schools,civilians on board its clearly not a battleship since all of those things require a lot of power and drain to keep them active,while the intrepid is stripped form all onthose extras just has what it needs. the intrepid is slightly a superior vessel combat wise.
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Old November 24 2011, 08:42 PM   #89
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Re: Intrepid class VS a galaxy class, which was more powerful and adva

excited first post and something i really care about.
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Old November 25 2011, 12:13 AM   #90
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Re: Intrepid class VS a galaxy class, which was more powerful and adva

jpch wrote: View Post
[be]cause it was armed with 14 phaser arrays and had 4 torp launchers lol,galaxy class has 12 arrays and 2 launchers. ur gonna say a galaxy can fire more maybe ...
We've seen the Enterprise fire ten torpedoes at once, out of a single tube, indicating that her tubes possess a larger diameter.

And the number of phaser strips has to do with covering firing arcs, and nothing to do with fire power. You can fire from a single "spot' on one strip with 100% of available power, or ten spots simultaneously with 10% power. If the Voyager possessed 120 strips, that would not give her 10 time the fire power of a Enterprise.

coz voy was always using torp as a last resort since they were 70 years away from the nearest starbase
And apparently had the manufacturing ability to make more.

voy fired 6 photon torpedoes in a row in 1.5 sec.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but Voyager fired them one at a time.

the intrepid was the most technologically advanced ship starfleet had at the time. its shields were quite superior then a galaxy class as we have seen them protect the ship inside a star
Hey, remember when the Enterprise's chief medical officer (while in command) did that for the first time, years before Voyager did?

plus Voyagers shields survived an assault from a borg tactical cube
While the Enterprise's shield survived an attack from a Borg full size cube.

jery taylor ...
Verbal statements by the production staff, while interesting, are non-canon.

if u know physics or at least logic u will understand that Size and weight in space are irrelevant ...
Hardly, the Enterprise greater size requires a larger warp field enclosure, and therefor greater power generation. Power that if feed into the weapons system (or other systems) would exceed Voyager generation capacity.

meaning that the more power u produce the faster u can move.
Owing to it small size and weight, Voyager is faster, and likely more maneuverable. Because of it's small warp field envelope, Voyager's warp core can produce less power and reach higher speeds. But that also mean less power for all those phaser strips.


clearly intrepid has a far more advanced and powerful warp core
Yet in spite of this "fact," the Enterprise can cruise for long periods of time at warp speed, while the Voyager for some reason is frequently seen in the middle of interstellar space traveling at impulse speeds (no pretty streaky lights).

the galaxy has mark 4 photon torpedoes quite powerful,but on episode scorpion of voy they said that an intrepid has mark 6 photon torp far more powerful then a galaxy
The AIM 7 (sparrow) missile has a 88 pound warhead, a AIM 9 (sidewinder) missile has a 20.8 pound warhead.

Simply having a higher number, doesn't automatically indicate a more powerful weapon. The Voyager torpedoes might carry a different model number, because her torpedo tubes are smaller.

2 tricobalt devices
If Voyager can carry them, likely other Starfleet ships can carry them as well. Various types of US Navy submarines carry the same model of torpedo.

the kazon never had a chance in basics they took over the ship coz of the guy who exploded himself inside causing a huge power drain.
Would Picard, Kirk or Sisko have fallen for the same trick?

the klingon old cruiser
Yes, quite old.

stated on screen to be explorer type ships
the majority of Starfleet starship are "multi-mission.

all of those things require a lot of power and drain to keep them active
We've seen LaForge divert power, and turn off unnecessary systems before.


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