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Old February 2 2009, 01:18 AM   #196
Marcus Porcius Cato
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Re: A Singular Destiny review thread (possible spoilers)

Great book, I do have some questions though.

At the end of the book the Tholian Ambassador said that her people joined Typhoon Pact just to destabilize (if not destroy) the Federation. Now we don't know the motivation of others, but is that essentially hostile?

How dependent is Klingon economy on the Federation?

All in all, great, solid book.

Note: I got mine at Borders in Eugene. So some Borders have it and some don't?
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Old February 2 2009, 01:21 AM   #197
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Re: A Singular Destiny review thread (possible spoilers)

Just finished it, and though I expect I'll blather at more length soon, I'll just say that though I do agree just a little with Fury that Sonek Pran is just a bit too perfect, the book in general was a great read. I love that the Star Trek book line can do things like this, and, as with Destiny, I'm eager to see what comes next.

Oh, and maybe I'm a fanwanksta, but I liked seeing where some SCE/COE and Gorkon/Klingon Empire characters have ended up. This is a big story; why shouldn't a few familiar faces be involved? I also appreciated the chance to get to know Captain Ezri Dax a bit better; I think some of the people who had concerns about her may find a few questions answered.
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Old February 2 2009, 03:26 AM   #198
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Re: A Singular Destiny review thread (possible spoilers)

Christopher wrote: View Post

JD wrote: View Post
I've been wondering, is ASD the only time we'll be seeing the Typhon Pact before the crossover next year, or will they affect the other '09 novels as well?
It's unlikely they'll have an effect on Titan, and as for others, they may be mentioned as a presence, but they're not the only thing going on in the galaxy.
William Leisner wrote: View Post
JD wrote: View Post
I've been wondering, is ASD the only time we'll be seeing the Typhon Pact before the crossover next year, or will they affect the other '09 novels as well?
Keep wondering...
Ok cool, I was just thought that maybe all of these books would be dealing with the Typhon Pact in some way, all of which leads to something big next year. But I guess it wouldn't really make since to do that, since they just did that kind of a thing with Destiny.
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Old February 2 2009, 09:06 AM   #199
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Re: A Singular Destiny review thread (possible spoilers)

Finished this yesterday, and loved it! A very fitting follow-up to the Destingy trilogy.

Reviewing this thread, it seems that opinions on Sonek Pran were mixed, but I have to say I enjoyed the character a great deal. His negotiating successes seem to be due to a combination of abundant research and an ability to take a high-level view of things, both of which seem to be believable qualities for a history professor to possess. Throw in a dash of "down-home charm", and you're well on your way to influencing people. Plus, his knowledge of other species probably came from his time travelling with his family. The only thing that came across as a bit unbelievable to me was his ability with languages: he was fluent in Lissepian, and I believe it said he was able to read five of the six languages on the Typhon Pact coin. This was the only place where he seemed a little "over the top" to me.

I do hope we get to see him again. I had thought that after his success, Bacco might have invited him back as a full-time advisor, but in the end he seemed to be back to his overview history course. Guess we'll have to wait and see.

It was great to finally see scenes from the Kinshaya POV. Physically, they don't seem to look like the pictures from the old FASA game, but that's neither here nor there. This first look inside their culture certainly made me want to see more, and now that they're a member of the Typhon Pact, I look forward to future works involving them.

I'm also very intrigued by the whole Typhon Pact situation. As others have said, this sets up some interesting story potential for the next couple of years, and I'm eager to see where it goes. It was mentioned upthread that they are not necessarily an enemy for the Federation. Based on what we've seen so far, they certainly seem antagonistic. One of their first acts was to try to disrupt UFP-Klingon relations. Plus, they have already invaded two Klingon planets. Of the member states, the Tholians are in it to get back at the Federation, the Kinshaya are (somewhat understandably) pissed at the Klingons, and the RSE wants the IRS removed from the playing field. Certainly sounds like rough times ahead! I'm hopeful that the Gorn provide a more UFP-friendly view within the Pact, as past work has seemed to paint them at least somewhat amiable towards the Federation.

I also liked the looks into the lives of the Gorkon and SCE crews in the post-Destiny timeframe. Now, I admit I'm way behind on SCE. Was the Corsi/Stevens marriage, and Stevens' transfer to the Musgrave covered in the series itself, or is it new material for ASD? Likewise I enjoyed revisiting Captain Dax and the Aventine again. Count me in the camp of Aventine fans who would like to see more.

One of the best things about this book is that it looked at the aftermath from so many different perspectives, which really helped to establish how widespread the devestation really was. One of the things I wanted to comment on was that the destruction seemed so much... um... BIGGER than what I recall seeing in Destiny itself. Maybe I need to go back and reread the trilogy, but what I thought I recall was that a few minor planets with minimal populations were hit hard, then Deneva was obliterated, then the major homeworld planets either had a small portion of their surface attacked before the Borg turned around, or they weren't hit at all. However, in ASD, it sounds like the homeworlds that were "partially" hit (Vulcan, Andor), were actually hit much harder than I thought, and other actual homeworlds got completely wiped out like Deneva (the ones I recall are Rhaandarel and Pandril). I just got the sense while reading ASD that the scope of the tragedy was actually much larger than I had imagined. Not sure if this is actually the case, or just a consequence of my less-than-stellar memory.

All in all, a fine mix of adventure, character builing, world building, and, of course, humour. Totally enjoyed the novel, and I'm looking forward to where the 24th century goes after this. Kudos to KRAD for another excellent read!

Some brief points:

- the infamous casualty list. Had to lol at the mention of poor, dead Frak! And after reading some of the Janeway-related threads here, I'm actually worried about the approaching armies of fans angered over the "off-screen" death of their favourite character:


- My favourite joke in the book? Altoss's line, after discovering the Battlecruiser Vengeance novels: "Who would read books based on a serial drama?" Classic, sir, just classic!
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Old February 2 2009, 03:47 PM   #200
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Re: A Singular Destiny review thread (possible spoilers)

Avro Arrow wrote: View Post
One of the best things about this book is that it looked at the aftermath from so many different perspectives, which really helped to establish how widespread the devestation really was. One of the things I wanted to comment on was that the destruction seemed so much... um... BIGGER than what I recall seeing in Destiny itself. Maybe I need to go back and reread the trilogy, but what I thought I recall was that a few minor planets with minimal populations were hit hard, then Deneva was obliterated, then the major homeworld planets either had a small portion of their surface attacked before the Borg turned around, or they weren't hit at all. However, in ASD, it sounds like the homeworlds that were "partially" hit (Vulcan, Andor), were actually hit much harder than I thought, and other actual homeworlds got completely wiped out like Deneva (the ones I recall are Rhaandarel and Pandril). I just got the sense while reading ASD that the scope of the tragedy was actually much larger than I had imagined. Not sure if this is actually the case, or just a consequence of my less-than-stellar memory.
No, it's consistent. Deneva was the one obliterated world that was focused on and actually visited, but it's one of many that were destroyed (including Barolia and Acamar, the first two targets, which were wiped out at the end of Greater Than the Sum). And Destiny did show some pretty major devastation on Vulcan, Andor, etc. If the destruction seemed less severe to you in DES, it must've just been because there was so much going on at once that you didn't have time to pause and examine just how devastating it was, except on Deneva. ASD is giving you that opportunity to observe the aftermath more fully, to get a good, long look at stuff that kind of raced by before.
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Old February 2 2009, 04:59 PM   #201
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Re: A Singular Destiny review thread (possible spoilers)

Avro Arrow wrote: View Post
Finished this yesterday, and loved it! A very fitting follow-up to the Destingy trilogy.
Thanks!


I do hope we get to see him again. I had thought that after his success, Bacco might have invited him back as a full-time advisor, but in the end he seemed to be back to his overview history course. Guess we'll have to wait and see.
Mars isn't that far from Earth, so it's easy enough for him to come and serve again.


I also liked the looks into the lives of the Gorkon and SCE crews in the post-Destiny timeframe. Now, I admit I'm way behind on SCE. Was the Corsi/Stevens marriage, and Stevens' transfer to the Musgrave covered in the series itself, or is it new material for ASD?
The latter.


Kudos to KRAD for another excellent read!
Again, thanks!


- My favourite joke in the book? Altoss's line, after discovering the Battlecruiser Vengeance novels: "Who would read books based on a serial drama?" Classic, sir, just classic!
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Old February 2 2009, 05:07 PM   #202
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Re: A Singular Destiny review thread (possible spoilers)

I'll say it again: we need a new map.
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Old February 2 2009, 07:09 PM   #203
William Leisner
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Re: A Singular Destiny review thread (possible spoilers)

Christopher wrote: View Post
Avro Arrow wrote: View Post
One of the things I wanted to comment on was that the destruction seemed so much... um... BIGGER than what I recall seeing in Destiny itself. Maybe I need to go back and reread the trilogy, but what I thought I recall was that a few minor planets with minimal populations were hit hard, then Deneva was obliterated, then the major homeworld planets either had a small portion of their surface attacked before the Borg turned around, or they weren't hit at all.
No, it's consistent. Deneva was the one obliterated world that was focused on and actually visited, but it's one of many that were destroyed (including Barolia and Acamar, the first two targets, which were wiped out at the end of Greater Than the Sum). And Destiny did show some pretty major devastation on Vulcan, Andor, etc. If the destruction seemed less severe to you in DES, it must've just been because there was so much going on at once that you didn't have time to pause and examine just how devastating it was, except on Deneva.
What Christopher said. President Bacco says at the end of Lost Souls that there's a "dead zone" extending for 100 light-years around the Azure Nebula -- that's a lot of real estate, and you can fit a lot of planets into a region of that size.
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Old February 2 2009, 08:58 PM   #204
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Re: A Singular Destiny review thread (possible spoilers)

Avro Arrow wrote: View Post
One of the things I wanted to comment on was that the destruction seemed so much... um... BIGGER than what I recall seeing in Destiny itself. Maybe I need to go back and reread the trilogy, but what I thought I recall was that a few minor planets with minimal populations were hit hard, then Deneva was obliterated, then the major homeworld planets either had a small portion of their surface attacked before the Borg turned around, or they weren't hit at all.
You need to re-read the trilogy. Seven thousand Borg cubes were established to be running around destroying planets all will-nilly, with 63 billion deaths. It wasn't "a few minor planets" -- they pretty much ran around saying that all sorts of planets were being destroyed and they couldn't even keep up with it all. Deneva was one of a number of worlds Destiny established to have been destroyed.

With regards to the attacks on the core worlds that Hernandez disrupted, it's important to remember that it wasn't just a small section of each planet that was attacked. There were fleets of usually around ten ships for each world, deployed all over those worlds' orbits in order to exterminate the surfaces. Hernandez disrupted the attacks before the exterminations could be completed, but that doesn't mean that those worlds weren't devastated. London wasn't exterminated during the blitz, but that doesn't mean that it wasn't decimated.

For the record, so far, this is what I have as far as the damage report for known space goes:

Confirmed Exterminated:
Ramatis (UFP)
Acamar (Independent)
Deneva (UFP)
Khitomer (Klingon)
Beta Thoridor (Klingon)
Adelphous IV
Devnar IV
Alrond (Andorian colony world)
T’Khut (Vulcan sister planet colony)
Sherman’s Planet (UFP)
Rhaandarel (UFP)


Believed Exterminated
Coridan (UFP)
Risa (UFP)
Regulus (UFP)
Korvat (UFP)
Barolia (Independent)
Yridia (Independent)
Hyralan
Celes
Japori II
Gamma Hromi II
H’Atoria (Klingon)
Beta Lankal (Klingon)
Mempa (Klingon)
Rura Pente (Klingon)
Nequencia Alpha (IRS)
Xarantine (UFP)
Jouret (UFP)
Pandril (UFP)
Several dozen smaller Klingon colonies

Devestated
(Attacks Interrupted)
Qo’noS (Klingon)
Vulcan (UFP)
Andor (UFP)
Tellar (UFP)
Rigel (UFP)
Ardana (UFP)
Morska (Klingon)

Attacked – Status Unknown
Aldebaaren (UFP)
Nausicaa (Independent)
Elas

Targeted – Status Unknown
Gorath
Elas
Ajilon
Archanis
Castor
Alrond

Targeted – Spared All Damage
Troyius
Earth (UFP)
Luna (UFP)
Mars (UFP)

Never Hit
Cestus III (UFP)

Confirmed Survived
(Damage Unknown)
Cestus (UFP)
Alonis (UFP)
Bolarus (UFP)
Zalda (UFP)

Prominent Federation Deaths
Federation Starfleet Admiral Owen Paris of Earth
Former Federation Councillor Charivretha zh’Thane of Andor
Federation Starfleet Captain Alex Terapane (C.O., USS Musashi)
Daughter of the Fourth House of Betazed Ione Kitain of Deneva
Deneva Civil Defense Corps Officer Elieth (Homeworld: Vulcan)
Federation Starfleet Lieutenant Command T’Lana of Vulcan
Federation Starfleet Lieutenant Zelik Leybenzon of Gault
Former Federation Starfleet Lieutenant and Maquis operative B’Elanna Torres of Kessik
Federation Councillor Nerramibus of Alonis
Federation Starfleet Captain George Sanders
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Old February 2 2009, 09:15 PM   #205
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Re: A Singular Destiny review thread (possible spoilers)

[quote=Sci;2568973]
Avro Arrow wrote: View Post

...Prominent Federation Deaths
Federation Starfleet Admiral Owen Paris of Earth
Former Federation Councillor Charivretha zh’Thane of Andor
Federation Starfleet Captain Alex Terapane (C.O., USS Musashi)
Daughter of the Fourth House of Betazed Ione Kitain of Deneva
Deneva Civil Defense Corps Officer Elieth (Homeworld: Vulcan)
Federation Starfleet Lieutenant Command T’Lana of Vulcan
Federation Starfleet Lieutenant Zelik Leybenzon of Gault
Former Federation Starfleet Lieutenant and Maquis operative B’Elanna Torres of Kessik
Federation Councillor Nerramibus of Alonis
Federation Starfleet Captain George Sanders
One to not forget is...

Miral Paris, daughter of Lt.Cmdr. Thomas Paris of Earth and Former Federation Starfleet Lieutenant (Commander)and Maquis operative B’Elanna Torres of Kessik, and perhaps, the Kuvah'magh of Klingon prophecy
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Old February 3 2009, 12:50 AM   #206
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Re: A Singular Destiny review thread (possible spoilers)

I finished 'ASD' last night, and I was very happy with how it turned out. It's a strong story that delves somewhat into the aftermath of 'Destiny', although it would probably take 3-4 books to cover ALL the devastation that the Borg caused in total.

There were a lot of interesting little tidbits scattered throughout the book. One of them was of course the now-infamous casualty list. The other was a counselor's report mentioning that a Starfleet away team encountered a group of liberated ex-Borg, and one of the security officers preceded to kill them all unprovoked. It was certainly a dark side of humanity that was bound to occur at some point (although the person in question MIGHT have been a Vulcan, I am not 100% sure...). Little things like this and other news reports/transmissions that were placed inbetween chapters give an interesting view of events.

I have to say, while I did like the idea of the Typhon Pact, I find it VERY unlikely, especially given their history, that the Tholians would ally with ANYONE. I understand the reasoning that they gave, except that it still doesn't fly with me. It's also somewhat odd that the Gorn would make a move like this, although I know very little of them. As mentioned in 'ASD', now-President Bacco had helped out the Gorn herself when she was still the head of the Cestus government. The others were not all that surprising. The Tzenkethi have always been hostile towards the Federation, along with the Romulans, Breen, and Tholians. The Kinshaya were an interesting addition to this pact, but I assume their primary motivation was to gain allies to fight the Klingons (as we witness when the Tzenkethi, Gorn, and Breen vessels attack the IKS Gorkon's task force sent to retake Krios from the Kinshaya).

I thought it was interesting that we might see an expansion of the Khitomer Accords to involve the Cardassians, the Imperial Romulan State (or as I call them, the Cool Romulans ), the Ferengi, and the Talarians. It's somewhat surprising to me how quickly the Talarians have forgotten about the war they waged with the Federation in the early 2360s (or late 2350s). I thought that the Talarians, considering their somewhat aggressive nature, might have been in the Typhon Pact instead of the Gorn.

I would say that the only downside of this book to me was the fact that we are going to have to wait to see a continuation of the new AQ order.

Otherwise, I give it a 9/10.
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Old February 3 2009, 01:59 AM   #207
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Re: A Singular Destiny review thread (possible spoilers)

William Leisner wrote: View Post
What Christopher said. President Bacco says at the end of Lost Souls that there's a "dead zone" extending for 100 light-years around the Azure Nebula -- that's a lot of real estate, and you can fit a lot of planets into a region of that size.
I took the "100 light years" bit to be metaphorical: Wouldn't Earth be within a hundred light years of the Azure Nebula?

That said, well, the butcher's bill is unimaginably huge.
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Old February 3 2009, 02:25 AM   #208
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Re: A Singular Destiny review thread (possible spoilers)

I just picked up this book today and am greatly looking forward to picking up in the fallout of the post-Destiny world!
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Old February 3 2009, 03:19 AM   #209
Corran Horn
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Re: A Singular Destiny review thread (possible spoilers)

[quote=Paris;2569037]
Sci wrote: View Post
Avro Arrow wrote: View Post

...Prominent Federation Deaths
Federation Starfleet Admiral Owen Paris of Earth
Former Federation Councillor Charivretha zh’Thane of Andor
Federation Starfleet Captain Alex Terapane (C.O., USS Musashi)
Daughter of the Fourth House of Betazed Ione Kitain of Deneva
Deneva Civil Defense Corps Officer Elieth (Homeworld: Vulcan)
Federation Starfleet Lieutenant Command T’Lana of Vulcan
Federation Starfleet Lieutenant Zelik Leybenzon of Gault
Former Federation Starfleet Lieutenant and Maquis operative B’Elanna Torres of Kessik
Federation Councillor Nerramibus of Alonis
Federation Starfleet Captain George Sanders
One to not forget is...

Miral Paris, daughter of Lt.Cmdr. Thomas Paris of Earth and Former Federation Starfleet Lieutenant (Commander)and Maquis operative B’Elanna Torres of Kessik, and perhaps, the Kuvah'magh of Klingon prophecy
Yeah, don't hold your breath on those last 2 being dead.
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Old February 3 2009, 04:26 AM   #210
KRAD
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Re: A Singular Destiny review thread (possible spoilers)

LutherSloan wrote: View Post
I finished 'ASD' last night, and I was very happy with how it turned out. It's a strong story that delves somewhat into the aftermath of 'Destiny', although it would probably take 3-4 books to cover ALL the devastation that the Borg caused in total.
Thanks!


The other was a counselor's report mentioning that a Starfleet away team encountered a group of liberated ex-Borg, and one of the security officers preceded to kill them all unprovoked.
Heh. Yeah, I figured there'd be some of that goin' 'round, too. I was trying to cover as many possible permutations of this as possible, drawing at least in part on my own experiences living in New York City on and after 11 September 2001.


It was certainly a dark side of humanity that was bound to occur at some point (although the person in question MIGHT have been a Vulcan, I am not 100% sure...).
The guy's name was Nakahara, which is a common Japanese name. Of course he was human......


I have to say, while I did like the idea of the Typhon Pact, I find it VERY unlikely, especially given their history, that the Tholians would ally with ANYONE. I understand the reasoning that they gave, except that it still doesn't fly with me.
Well, I explained their reasons through Tezrene -- it's enlightened self-interest on their part. Keep in mind that, as of ASD, the pact is, like, five minutes old, and it formed under extreme circumstances. It'll be fun to see how things play out as time goes on.................


It's also somewhat odd that the Gorn would make a move like this, although I know very little of them. As mentioned in 'ASD', now-President Bacco had helped out the Gorn herself when she was still the head of the Cestus government.
Why wouldn't they?


It's somewhat surprising to me how quickly the Talarians have forgotten about the war they waged with the Federation in the early 2360s (or late 2350s). I thought that the Talarians, considering their somewhat aggressive nature, might have been in the Typhon Pact instead of the Gorn.
A bit of inside baseball, here: Early on, I was considering having the Talarians be part of the Pact (in addition to the Gorn, actually -- the Gorn were always going to be part) and Dave Mack was the one who talked me out of it. His argument convinced me, certainly...


Otherwise, I give it a 9/10.
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