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Old January 17 2009, 04:23 PM   #16
Dane_Whitman
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Re: NX-01 Vs Ncc-1701 D

If two salvaged birds of prey commanded by FERENGI can disable the Enterprise-D, any ship can beat it.
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Old January 17 2009, 05:40 PM   #17
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Re: NX-01 Vs Ncc-1701 D

Cyke101 wrote: View Post

Hey, first off, calm down.
I was perfectly calm at the time of writing that. Was merely trying to grab your attention.

Normally, I'd agree with you about this, as even a ship that's 10 years older is at a disadvantage. But I think he has a point here: after all, Voyager somehow, someway, managed to beat a fighter from the 29th Century. THAT is the equivalent of a Spanish Armada vessel, with its cannonballs and scimitars, beating an F-14, so really, it does depend on who's writing it. And seeing as how you agree that the writers have all the control, then you yourself know that they can do whatever they please without regard to the viewer's previous (often logical) knowledge or perception.
Ah, but Voyager used it's main deflector dish to disable the Aeon.
They used a specific pulse on a frequency sent right along the Aeon's sustained destructive beam.
If there was a one on one battle with actual weapons, then the Aeon would have likely roasted Voyager (the pulse it was using on Voyager was doing some serious damage ... but it still provided Voyager with a window of opportunity since it was a sustained beam which the heroes used to disable the Aeon directly - a method often used by many species to deflect a direct assault as evidenced in other Trek shows and Voyager episodes if you recall).

The NX-01 is a very unsophisticated piece of tech compared to Voyager for example because by the time of late 24th century, Feds tech was sufficiently developed to allow for some leeway (mind you it's an iffy subject though since 500 years of tech difference is a LARGE gap) ... a method earlier ships would likely have an issue with.
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Old January 17 2009, 06:09 PM   #18
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Re: NX-01 Vs Ncc-1701 D

Well it largely depends on the story. I say that alot, I know but that's the only way to settle these kinds of debates.


Lets say terrorists steal a Galaxy Class ship. Your ship is the closest ship, but it is an NX-class that is part of a traveling history exhibit.


Well you aren't going to fly up, crack the shields and beam in your security team that's for sure. One hit from those phasers will overload your hull-plating and shut down most of your systems, if not absolutely vaporize portions of the hull. Torpedoes, same problem but worse. One hit and you are toast.


You have a functional (if very old) transporter, some old spatial torpedoes and of course your phase cannons... antimatter fuel, matter fuel and a shuttle... and of course the most dangerous resource of all: the human mind.

That's far far more resources than most away-teams have and they manage to get out of some epic situations.

You could write a story that allows the characters to synthesize a solution from all those elements and save the day. Granted it won't be a one-on-one epic battle, it'll be more of a McGuiver solution.

Of course that's my take on it, you could invoke a plot device of some kind and allow the hero-ship to win a one-on-one... what I'm getting at is the outcome of the story is up to you.
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Old January 17 2009, 06:50 PM   #19
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Re: NX-01 Vs Ncc-1701 D

Nardpuncher wrote: View Post
Jim Steele wrote: View Post
This thread is fucking lame.
I know! It's the epitome of what non-fans would think we discuss here.

And yet, it'll go on for like 5 pages.
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Old January 17 2009, 07:01 PM   #20
Plecostomus
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Re: NX-01 Vs Ncc-1701 D

Semah wrote: View Post
Nardpuncher wrote: View Post
Jim Steele wrote: View Post
This thread is fucking lame.
I know! It's the epitome of what non-fans would think we discuss here.

And yet, it'll go on for like 5 pages.
Consisting of mostly meta-commentary about the thread and juvenile "MY CANON IS MORE CANON THAN YOUR CANON SO EVERYTHING I IMAGINE IS RIGHT!" nonsense.
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Old January 17 2009, 07:04 PM   #21
Cyke101
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Re: NX-01 Vs Ncc-1701 D

Deks wrote: View Post
Cyke101 wrote: View Post

Hey, first off, calm down.
I was perfectly calm at the time of writing that. Was merely trying to grab your attention.

Normally, I'd agree with you about this, as even a ship that's 10 years older is at a disadvantage. But I think he has a point here: after all, Voyager somehow, someway, managed to beat a fighter from the 29th Century. THAT is the equivalent of a Spanish Armada vessel, with its cannonballs and scimitars, beating an F-14, so really, it does depend on who's writing it. And seeing as how you agree that the writers have all the control, then you yourself know that they can do whatever they please without regard to the viewer's previous (often logical) knowledge or perception.
Ah, but Voyager used it's main deflector dish to disable the Aeon.
They used a specific pulse on a frequency sent right along the Aeon's sustained destructive beam.
If there was a one on one battle with actual weapons, then the Aeon would have likely roasted Voyager (the pulse it was using on Voyager was doing some serious damage ... but it still provided Voyager with a window of opportunity since it was a sustained beam which the heroes used to disable the Aeon directly - a method often used by many species to deflect a direct assault as evidenced in other Trek shows and Voyager episodes if you recall).

The NX-01 is a very unsophisticated piece of tech compared to Voyager for example because by the time of late 24th century, Feds tech was sufficiently developed to allow for some leeway (mind you it's an iffy subject though since 500 years of tech difference is a LARGE gap) ... a method earlier ships would likely have an issue with.
How is any kind of explanation of that battle going to justify it? For one thing, the time discrepancy between Voyager and the Aeon is twice as large as the discrepancy between the NX-01 and the Enterprise-D by a couple centuries. And regardless of how Voyager beat the Aeon, she still beat the Aeon when she shouldn't have. Really, it was very ridiculous to show the battle in the first place. Voyager is basically from the Aeon's dark ages and the battle itself is completely nonsensical (utter proof that technobabble is a crutch). Of course, if the 29th Century tech is really all that advanced, the Aeon should've run circles around such a tactic. Let's keep in mind even today's current rate of technological advances, and those advances are probably going to continue grow ing exponentially, making the tech gap between Voyager and Aeon even LARGER than the NX-01 and E-D. In the grand scheme of things, Voyager's deflector dish is really no different than a 16th century pirate trying to catch an F-14 with a net.

I really don't see how anyone can defend Voyager's victory here while bemoaning the notion that idea of the NX-01 doing anything to the Enterprise. That's an inconsistent stream of logic.

But then, that's the point of it all. Whoever is writing it has all the power, logistics and technology be damned. It's the same kind of writing that lets Jeff Goldblum with a Macintosh destroy an invading force centuries more advanced than 1996. Thus, to bemoan and belittle anyone for a silly notion but ignoring (or worse yet, allowing and defending) the precedent already set is inconsistent. Why is it okay for one crew to pull off a miracle but a crime if another crew on another show does it?
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Old January 17 2009, 10:15 PM   #22
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Re: NX-01 Vs Ncc-1701 D

Nardpuncher wrote: View Post
Jim Steele wrote: View Post
This thread is fucking lame.
I know! It's the epitome of what non-fans would think we discuss here.
This thread makes kittens cry.
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Old January 17 2009, 10:18 PM   #23
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Re: NX-01 Vs Ncc-1701 D

Plecostomus wrote: View Post
Semah wrote: View Post
Nardpuncher wrote: View Post

I know! It's the epitome of what non-fans would think we discuss here.

And yet, it'll go on for like 5 pages.
Consisting of mostly meta-commentary about the thread and juvenile "MY CANON IS MORE CANON THAN YOUR CANON SO EVERYTHING I IMAGINE IS RIGHT!" nonsense.
To be honest, I'll take starship threads over canon threads any day of the week.
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Old January 18 2009, 05:33 AM   #24
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Re: NX-01 Vs Ncc-1701 D

This sort of reminds me of a story I saw in a Trek comic way back when I was a little kid.

Q and Trelane were playing a game of chess against each other with the pieces being the crews of the Enterprise (Trelane) and the Enterprise-E (Q) except the Captain's were reversed (Kirk on the E, Picard on the 1701). In it Trelane sent Kirk in the E up against a TOS Era Klingon ship and Picard went up against a TNG Era Klingon ship in the 1701. The classic Enterprise took out the Negh'Var, but Q let the K'T'Inga nearly destroy the E-E.

Just made me think of it - I haven't thought of that comic in years.
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Old January 18 2009, 07:22 AM   #25
Maurice
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Re: NX-01 Vs Ncc-1701 D

Simple answer. The NX would be fucked, as established even on Enterprise itself. Remember "A Mirror Darkly" where the 23rd century starship Defiant mopped the floor with every ship that came against it? Now, add 78 years of progress on top of that.
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Old January 18 2009, 12:04 PM   #26
Deks
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Re: NX-01 Vs Ncc-1701 D

Cyke101 wrote: View Post

How is any kind of explanation of that battle going to justify it? For one thing, the time discrepancy between Voyager and the Aeon is twice as large as the discrepancy between the NX-01 and the Enterprise-D by a couple centuries. And regardless of how Voyager beat the Aeon, she still beat the Aeon when she shouldn't have. Really, it was very ridiculous to show the battle in the first place. Voyager is basically from the Aeon's dark ages and the battle itself is completely nonsensical (utter proof that technobabble is a crutch). Of course, if the 29th Century tech is really all that advanced, the Aeon should've run circles around such a tactic. Let's keep in mind even today's current rate of technological advances, and those advances are probably going to continue grow ing exponentially, making the tech gap between Voyager and Aeon even LARGER than the NX-01 and E-D. In the grand scheme of things, Voyager's deflector dish is really no different than a 16th century pirate trying to catch an F-14 with a net.

I really don't see how anyone can defend Voyager's victory here while bemoaning the notion that idea of the NX-01 doing anything to the Enterprise. That's an inconsistent stream of logic.

But then, that's the point of it all. Whoever is writing it has all the power, logistics and technology be damned. It's the same kind of writing that lets Jeff Goldblum with a Macintosh destroy an invading force centuries more advanced than 1996. Thus, to bemoan and belittle anyone for a silly notion but ignoring (or worse yet, allowing and defending) the precedent already set is inconsistent. Why is it okay for one crew to pull off a miracle but a crime if another crew on another show does it?
What happened during Braxton's attempt at destroying Voyager was essentially using a direct beam that did not instantly destroy the ship but it was a slower 'chewing' process which took more amount of time (enough of it so the crew can fight back).
As I already said earlier, they utilized Braxton's weapons against him.
Sending a specific deflector pulse via his beam as a conduit, it's bound to use Braxton's beam as well to inflict damage onto the Aeon's systems.
This method was used by less advanced species to deflect direct assaults.
Even the Borg used this method in episode 'One' when Voyager tried disabling Sphere's engines with their enhanced weapons (using a sustained phaser beam).
Granted, even for it's size, the Aeon should have destroyed Voyager in less half the time what we saw on screen (writers made a stupid mistake yet again) if we take into consideration the 500 years of technological gap between the 2 ships.

Realistically, Voyager should have been minced meat.
The NX-01 would be the same if it went up against a Galaxy class ship.

There is no contest really.
Unless of course Braxton put on a good acting show for Janeway with the hidden intention of setting certain things in motion so Voyager could repair the damage themselves right before Starlight went into the temporal rift (or his weapon was of a much weaker output than originally intended because he was too close to the rift).
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Old January 18 2009, 06:33 PM   #27
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Re: NX-01 Vs Ncc-1701 D

Infern0 wrote: View Post
Please settle a debate for me, The original Enterprise could not beat the D could it? My friend seems to think that the NX could use shield frequencies to disable the D but that cannot be right!
If Scotty is head of engineering, I think the original Enterprise (1701) could definately beat the D. No pun intended. Kirk only had one main engineer-- Picard hard at least 3.
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Old January 18 2009, 08:33 PM   #28
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Re: NX-01 Vs Ncc-1701 D

Actually, going by feats, not only could the NX-01 win, it almost certainly WILL win. It has greater maneuverability, greater acceleration as it gets to warp about instantly, it's top speed is far greater - as it gets to Q'Onos in only five days, its torpedo weapons are the exact same as the D, and its beam weapons are more powerful - seeing as the Borg didn't manage to adapt to a mere pistol until after 15 or or so shots, while phasers don't get past 2 or if they're lucky 3 from a powerful rifle, seeing as the ship's version in both cases is more powerful version of the hand weapon...

The Eneterprise-D is rather screwed.

Of course, since the NX-01 is supposed to be a primitive predecessor flying around two whole centuries earlier, it kinda highlights how bad Enterprise was made.

darkshadow0001 wrote: View Post
Infern0 wrote: View Post
Please settle a debate for me, The original Enterprise could not beat the D could it? My friend seems to think that the NX could use shield frequencies to disable the D but that cannot be right!
If Scotty is head of engineering, I think the original Enterprise (1701) could definately beat the D. No pun intended. Kirk only had one main engineer-- Picard hard at least 3.
That's because the E-D is nearly 5 times as large, and thus has five times the machinery that needs to be maintained.
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Old January 19 2009, 04:15 AM   #29
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Re: NX-01 Vs Ncc-1701 D

Infern0 wrote: View Post
Please settle a debate for me, The original Enterprise could not beat the D could it? My friend seems to think that the NX could use shield frequencies to disable the D but that cannot be right!
All the enterprises build after the NX-01 can kick its ass, the only thing going for NX-01 is it size, other than that its moving target practice
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Old January 19 2009, 04:37 AM   #30
Broccoli
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Re: NX-01 Vs Ncc-1701 D

Question: Is Batman in charge of the NX-01? If so, and he had enough time to prepare, the NX-01 would win.

nx1701g wrote: View Post
This sort of reminds me of a story I saw in a Trek comic way back when I was a little kid.

Q and Trelane were playing a game of chess against each other with the pieces being the crews of the Enterprise (Trelane) and the Enterprise-E (Q) except the Captain's were reversed (Kirk on the E, Picard on the 1701). In it Trelane sent Kirk in the E up against a TOS Era Klingon ship and Picard went up against a TNG Era Klingon ship in the 1701. The classic Enterprise took out the Negh'Var, but Q let the K'T'Inga nearly destroy the E-E.

Just made me think of it - I haven't thought of that comic in years.
Star Trek Unlimited # 7. I loved that issue. Very fan-wanky, but very fun too.
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