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Battlestar Galactica & Caprica This forum was created by man. It rebelled. It evolved. And it has a plan.

View Poll Results: Grade the episode...
Excellent 197 71.38%
Above Average 53 19.20%
Average 16 5.80%
Below Average 7 2.54%
Poor 3 1.09%
Voters: 276. You may not vote on this poll

 
 
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Old January 18 2009, 01:41 AM   #181
Candlelight
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Re: Battlestar Galactica 4x11: "Sometimes a Great Notion"

Magic_Al wrote: View Post
propita wrote: View Post
What if her appearing on Earth (crashing)--and I have no idea how she got there--was the cause of the death of Earth? Somehow?
I don't think there was any suggestion of time travel with Starbuck. Earth was nuked 2,000 years ago. Starbuck's body and the wreckage looked only several months old and appeared to be where it had fallen, like Space Shuttle Columbia debris and crew remains in Texas, not moved or buried and more decomposed like it would have been after 2,000 years of weather and wildlife and floods.

The dead Starbuck died when her Viper exploded, just as Apollo saw. The wreckage then went through a wormhole and fell out of the sky over Earth. The Starbuck who took the pictures of Earth and returned to the fleet must have been created in the wormhole and emerged separately, but any explanation for her is speculation.
By the same tech that allowed the Cylons to survive the holocaust on Earth.
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Old January 18 2009, 01:51 AM   #182
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Re: Battlestar Galactica 4x11: "Sometimes a Great Notion"

Its now been almost 24 hours and I am still trying to absorb it all. They sure introduce a lot of stuff while answering stuff. So much stuff it's sometimes hard to take it all in. Brutal episode with Dee, I didn't see that coming at all. Shocked me and TV does not usually do that to me very much.

Excellent episode, I keep thinking "what the hell is going on?" when I think about it all- so much to think about. This show still has so much depth and we are so many years out from the mini-series that started this ride.

I can't wait to see the next ep
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Old January 18 2009, 01:57 AM   #183
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Re: Battlestar Galactica 4x11: "Sometimes a Great Notion"

Excellent. I was totally caught off guard by Dee's suicide, but a little underwhelmed by the revelation of the fifth. Even then, however, I still have HUGE hopes for where things are headed!

The episode was frakking brilliant.

doubleohfive wrote: View Post
Further, given your reasons for not liking the series, I'm quite impressed you could find last night's episode entertaining at all.
Now I'm curious. What are his reasons?
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Old January 18 2009, 02:01 AM   #184
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Re: Battlestar Galactica 4x11: "Sometimes a Great Notion"

Agent Richard07 wrote: View Post
TheInsideMan wrote: View Post
I guess were done with the "ONE WILL BE REVEALED" titles.
Looks like they're done with the opening theme/montage too, unless its absence from this episode was a one-off thing.
They've cut the opening theme before. I think it's just to steal time when a story is too long and they can't cut anymore. If the montage wasn't such a good recap of the miniseries for new viewers I could see them dropping it for good. I guess they're no longer "IN SEARCH OF A HOME CALLED EARTH" though, and maybe there are no more new viewers.
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Old January 18 2009, 02:13 AM   #185
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Re: Battlestar Galactica 4x11: "Sometimes a Great Notion"

Hyperspace05 wrote: View Post
I've read some speculation on how long the wreck and Starbucks body had been on Earth... Some think there may be time travel involved.

I don't think so. I think this is where her wrecked ship and herself ended up after disappearing/dying in the maelstrom storm. No time travel involved. The same 'force' that rebuilt her and her fighter transported her dead/dying body to Earth.
I tend to agree with your first part. She ended up here (earth) from "Maelstrom". When she was "gone" and then reappeared during the battle with the cylons, Sam had stated "you've been gone for two months". In "Revelations", when they found the signal to earth from Kara's viper, Kara had stated that the viper was "sitting in the exact same place for the last three months". So for me, the dead Kara1.0 has been sitting upside down in a burned out, crashed viper1.0 for give or take 5 months. Decomp looks about right given possible burns and environmental exposure, etc.. Which begs the question, just what the frak is Kara2.0? A clone? A cylon? An earthcylon? An alien? A god? Many questions to be answered. I like how being with Kara2.0 freaked out Leoben... I also like how Kara2.0 torched the dead body of Kara1.0 and then kept the whole thing quiet.

Dee shooting herself; wow, didn't see that one coming. Total jaw dropper for me.

Helen being the 5th. cylon is "meh" in my book. Yea, she's the final five, but she's also very much dead and buried on New Caprica (unless they resurrected her some how). Expect to see more moody brooding from Saul.

All in all a very good (well, excellent) episode to me. I'm glad BSG is back!

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Old January 18 2009, 02:18 AM   #186
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Re: Battlestar Galactica 4x11: "Sometimes a Great Notion"

Candlelight wrote: View Post
Magic_Al wrote: View Post
propita wrote: View Post
What if her appearing on Earth (crashing)--and I have no idea how she got there--was the cause of the death of Earth? Somehow?
I don't think there was any suggestion of time travel with Starbuck. Earth was nuked 2,000 years ago. Starbuck's body and the wreckage looked only several months old and appeared to be where it had fallen, like Space Shuttle Columbia debris and crew remains in Texas, not moved or buried and more decomposed like it would have been after 2,000 years of weather and wildlife and floods.

The dead Starbuck died when her Viper exploded, just as Apollo saw. The wreckage then went through a wormhole and fell out of the sky over Earth. The Starbuck who took the pictures of Earth and returned to the fleet must have been created in the wormhole and emerged separately, but any explanation for her is speculation.
By the same tech that allowed the Cylons to survive the holocaust on Earth.
If that were the case Kara would be a Cylon; and she's not. Personally, I think her character will be an homage of sorts to 'The Ship of Lights' from BSG1978. It's the one element fom the original we haven't seen tied in yet; and while I don't think RDM is bringing other 'divine aliens' into this; I think Kara wil be revealed to have been ressurected by some 'divine' type of mechanism.

Overall, I'm not impressed so far as it all harkens back to some very cliche elements. We now know that while the 13th Tribe (of Cylons) named the planet 'Earth' (There's a good reason why they never bothered to show any moon in the orbital shots ); the final planet the fleet finds and lands on will be the planet that is actually our Earth - and that'll happen in the 9th or last episode.

I also find it funny that to create drama now - RDM is going back to a plotline he should have continued back in the second season when it made more sense - namely that Tom Zarek is leading a breakaway/disgruntled faction that will cause a civil war in the Fleet. that combined with the 'other' Cylons (led now by Cavil) that are looking for our band to finish them off gives the last external drama RDM needs now that the 'looking for Earth' drama is over with. The one thing that does bother me is that in RDM's BSG universe, life and habitable planets are EXTREMELY rare; and this was stated by Adama himself back in season one; so I'm surprised he's so confident now that he can find one for the Fleet now.

Again, I hope it gets better because all this was very underwhelming 'drama for drama's sake, imo. I also lost a lot of respect for Adama, NOT because he tried to attempt suicide; but he was so wishy-washy about it; he ciouldn't bring himself to just do it; and hoped to get Tigh to take catre of it for him. I realiz the crew is supposed to be colonial dregs, etc; but you'd think the Admiral would be man enough to pull the trigger himself if he really wanted to end it.

As for Dee's suicide. meh - hated the whole Apollo/Dee storyline and riomance to begin with, as they had ZERO chemistry on-screen and the actress palying Dee has always been nediocre at best and hould have never risen above 'glorified extra' status to begin with; so to have her shoot herself was again (imo); drama for drama's sake.

Overall, I gave this episode a Poor - I hope the remaini ng nine improve quick.
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Old January 18 2009, 02:19 AM   #187
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Re: Battlestar Galactica 4x11: "Sometimes a Great Notion"

What exactly would the text have said this week anyway?

39,651 Survivors

Fairly Pissed Off

Because Earth was Shite
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Old January 18 2009, 02:24 AM   #188
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Re: Battlestar Galactica 4x11: "Sometimes a Great Notion"

I don't remember the episode even having the normal beginning.
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Old January 18 2009, 02:31 AM   #189
Magic_Al
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Re: Battlestar Galactica 4x11: "Sometimes a Great Notion"

GodBen wrote: View Post
What exactly would the text have said this week anyway?

39,651 Survivors

Fairly Pissed Off

Because Earth was Shite
"FRAK EARTH"
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Old January 18 2009, 02:49 AM   #190
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Re: Battlestar Galactica 4x11: "Sometimes a Great Notion"

Jack Bauer discovered that Earth was being overrun by Cyclons, so he, Tony, Chloe, Bill and Wayne decided the only way to stop them would be to nuke the entire planet. Jack will then wake up as Count Iblis.
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Old January 18 2009, 02:56 AM   #191
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Re: Battlestar Galactica 4x11: "Sometimes a Great Notion"

Excellent.

The fallout from Revelations reverberates throughout the entire episode, possibly shattering the President and destroying Dee. Somehow, I'd almost expected the Admiral to be more devastated than the President. Maybe she simply beat him to it. And Dee's suicide - shocking and sad, I think. I'll miss the character.

The fleet as a whole is as damaged psychologically as Felix is physically. I think it's amazing that they decided to build up the whole journey to earth and then take so much time to investigate the fallout from what will happen if that goal does not yield the results the characters had hoped for.

I also loved the two Adamas' characterizations. The scene at the deathbed was particularly moving, I thought. And it was interesting to see how differently they reacted.
Also, the scenes leading on from there worked very well, I thought, such as Lee erasing the 1 from the number of survivors and his talk with Kara as well as the Admiral's confrontation with Tigh. In particular, I liked how you really had to feel sorry for both these men - looking at how much they'd both sacrificed and how little they'd received in return.
I basically loved all the scenes on earth, from the way they were filmed, to the music and to the revelations. A society of Cylons, Kara finding her own dead body (I particularly loved Leoben's reaction here, btw. - he seemed downright scared).

And, honestly, I was not expecting Ellen would be the final Cylon. If I had one complaint about the episode then that the revelation seemed to come so suddenly and unexpectedly that I was hardly able to take it in.

All in all, I am certainly VERY much looking forward to seeing this episode again. Simply beautiful and powerful from start to finish.

I am so excited that the show is back again. And this episode just reminded me of all the reasons why I adore it so much. I think there's simply no other show quite like it.
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Old January 18 2009, 02:58 AM   #192
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Re: Battlestar Galactica 4x11: "Sometimes a Great Notion"

Magic_Al wrote: View Post
GodBen wrote: View Post
What exactly would the text have said this week anyway?

39,651 Survivors

Fairly Pissed Off

Because Earth was Shite
"FRAK EARTH"
Actually with Dee's death its 39,650 survivors, remeber Lee changed the 1 to a 0.
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Old January 18 2009, 03:03 AM   #193
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Re: Battlestar Galactica 4x11: "Sometimes a Great Notion"

Above average.

I'm a big fan of interesting plot and so what I enjoyed most about the hour were the mythology elements where we were provided some intriguing and ominous clues relating to some of the series' key mysteries.

The show definitely can generate some eerie feelings with moments of bizarre discoveries reminiscient of LOST at times and there were several of those moments here--from the unearthing of the ancient centurions buried with the skeletal remains to the unearthing of buried memories of a life far removed returning to the Four to Starbuck's discovery.

It was intriguing as Tyrol had flashes of being in the past 2000 years ago. The moment when Tyrol realizes that it was his shadow that was seared into the wall was a chilling one. The flashes were only brief glimpses into their past lives but interesting nonetheless which only piqued my curiosity more about them as well as Earth and what happened there. It also raises a series of new even more intriguing questions surrounding them--What caused the nuclear holocaust?; Why were their memories suppressed?; Was it intentional to start over anew; Or was it a glitch in their downloading?; Why were these the only ones to survive and resurrect?; Could the moniker "Final Five" refer not to them being the final five of the 12 Cylons but the final five of the 13th tribe since they seemed to be the only survivors of the holocaust. They obviously don't resurrect the way the 7 do straight into full grown bodies because Adama remembers Tighe as a young man who has aged over the years and Tyrol remembers his youth. The flashback showed Tighe as he appears now-an older man as well as Tyrol. So how many times have they resurrected?

We also learned the Five knew each other in the past. I'm curious about that relationship. And I wonder if "Along the Watchtower" was chosen by the Five to be the wake-up call because of it being something familiar to them since we learned Anders played it often. If so, it adds a bit of interesting context that doesn't make its initial introduction in "Crossroads" so odd and jarring--in a good way. All of these slow peeling away of layers adds a some interest to everything.

We also finally learned the identity of the Final Cylon. I went out of my way to avoid theories and spoilers relating to who it was and I'm glad I did. I actually liked it turning out to be Ellen. I like the idea of star-crossed lovers who reincarnate in a new life to be together only to have one end up killing the other. It seemed just from the admittedly brief glimpse into their relationship in the past it seemed they were better adjusted than they were in this one. I think it works too because it adds even more in hindsight to his murdering Ellen. These two went to all the trouble to be together only to have one kill the other. It also makes sense why D'Anna knew the fifth wasn't in the fleet. The question now is where is she and did she resurrect? If so, what has she been up to this whole time? Did she activate the others?

I also loved the unnerving moment when Starbuck finds the remains of a pilot that is strongly hinted to be her. It was interesting how Leoben was disturbed by it as much as Starbuck and he sort of quietly backs away from her. In her mind, with another unknown Cylon out there it must be in floating in her mind that she could very well be a Cylon. How else to account for her resurrection.

The character stuff was not that engaging for me and was a little overwrought which BSG has a problem with from time to time. I realize the writers wanted to convey the despair that had taken a grip on the fleet as their hopes were dashed as we saw Roslin give up, burn her book, refuse treatments for her illness, let Lee deal with the Quorum; Adama wanting Tighe to shoot him; Dee shooting herself but a lot of it was merely competent instead of compelling.

I do wonder though if Dee's suicide is all that it appears or if it will play into the larger tapestry at a later point. As it stands now it was out of left field. My initial thought was that the writers were going to reunite Lee and Dee. Then she blows her brains out.

Dee's death didn't resonate the way it should have. It probably is a combination of things. First, character deaths are almost a weekly occurrence on BSG which mutes the effect emotionally as well as undercutting the shock of the death itself. Plus, she was a secondary character who has more of a presence than a redshirt but still hadn't had much to do in quite some time. I wasn't really sure why she would killer herself. My first thought was she was the Final Cylon but I guess the point was that even the more hopeful of the fleet are succumbing to the emotional toll.

As for the Tighe/Adama scene--it pretty much was the standard Loud Outburst with the close-up Intense Facial Expression which has become a bit of a stand-by for the show. It was okay but I was ready to get back to the mythology stuff.
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Old January 18 2009, 03:22 AM   #194
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Re: Battlestar Galactica 4x11: "Sometimes a Great Notion"

James Bond wrote: View Post
doubleohfive wrote: View Post
Further, given your reasons for not liking the series, I'm quite impressed you could find last night's episode entertaining at all.
Now I'm curious. What are his reasons?
I fully admit that my tastes in sci-fi are rather...pedestrian, at the very least. I *like* shows that are nothing but space battles and blowing shit up. Which of course there is very little of, here. And of course anyone who knows me knows that I am a very linear, black&white person...I don't believe in ambiguity. I believe everyone is either good OR evil. So you can imagine why I don't much go for shows like this.

An earlier poster said it best: The original BSG (which I love) never questioned humanity's culpability; nuBSG never *stops* questioning it. So you can imagine which one I'd gravitate towards.

As for this last episode: I was just curious about Earth. I wondered what they were going to do with it. And since there's only 9 episodes left, I figure I have very little to lose by watching them.
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Old January 18 2009, 04:03 AM   #195
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Re: Battlestar Galactica 4x11: "Sometimes a Great Notion"

There was so much to digest in this episode I didn't get to all of it. Some other thoughts:

I'm glad someone mentioned Baltar in the Doctor coat scenes. It was nice to see Baltar back to where he was in season 1, if only for a bit. Made me realize how much I miss actually having Baltar being a scientist instead of the second coming.

I hope they don't forget about the whole Head six or head whatever thing. Hopefully we actually do get a baltar centered episode in this set.

Those scenes with Starbuck were dang creepy. At least with that plot we are moving forward, which is a great thing.

Can't wait to see how all this unfolds. Still a bit surprised about Dee committing suicide. Shocking scene.
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