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View Poll Results: Best tactician?
Kirk 31 26.72%
Picard 11 9.48%
Sisko 63 54.31%
Janeway 11 9.48%
Voters: 116. You may not vote on this poll

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Old January 23 2009, 08:08 AM   #31
Nardpuncher
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Re: Best tactician? Kirk,Picard, Sisko or Janeway?

I always thought Scotty was just incredible whenever he was left in command. I mean that, check the episodes where he's in command...he was the original Sisko.
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Old January 24 2009, 11:06 AM   #32
ZERO_of_ZERO
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Re: Best tactician? Kirk,Picard, Sisko or Janeway?

I would say Kirk.

All the rest had decades more of other peoples experience to build on.

Would there have been a "Picard manouver" if he hadnt had the knowledge gained from what Captain Pike, Kirk etc had done in the past?
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Old October 6 2013, 08:47 PM   #33
imajakov
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Re: Best tactician? Kirk,Picard, Sisko or Janeway?

I disagree 100% with most of you.. Archer is probably the best tactician out of all of them

Sisko was not a good tactician The ONLY reason why Sisko helped with the war was becuase he asked the prophets for help. otherwise the Dominion would have MOST DEFINITELY taken over the Alpha Quadrant.

Sisko couldnt even trick the Romulans into the war without 99% of Garak's help!
Sisko, has his butt handed to him more than 3 times against the Founders cunning and brilliant tactics.


Back to Archer Lets think about this shall we

Archer was using not only the weakest ship out of all of the other captains( due to being 100 years before everyone else).. But in comparison to other ships out in space during that period he he was inferior to 75% of the time.

Enterprise NX-01 had no tractor beam, poor armor, weak phase cannons and No shields( except during the alternate timeline in "Twilight"):

And compared to the other ships during this time( Andorians,Vulcans, Most Klingon Battlecruises and the Orions) the NX-01 was substantially less powerful. Yet they survived. Not from brute force like the ENT D or Siskos Defiant, but from using his head. Combat tactics. Yes the NX-01 went thru a couple refits( Photonic torpedoes,and better armor by season 3 , but even this it was comparatively weak)

Archer faced multiple bad guys and he made it out ok.. Archer went into the expanse on his own and emerged both with his ship surviving and victorious

Archer+the crew defeated 24th century Borg in under 45 minutes!( Regeneration)

Despite a species with inferior tech,Archer and the NX-01 gained respect from Vulcans Andorians Tellerites and Klingons. Meanwhile Sisko can just blow stuff up with his Defiant( the most powerful ship in the Alpha Quadrant once it was introduced)

Janeway was alone in delta quadrant but Archer was almost almost all the time and survived.and Voyager was a powerful ship compared to most Delta Quadrant Species.

Kirks TOS Enterprise was powerful compared to most species. IT could blow a klingon battle cruiser away with 1 shot.. It outgunned Birds of Prey 10-1



The only reason why he wasnt part of this poll was becuase nobody liked the series.

Without a doubt.Archer reigns above all the rest and should have been on the list.

2nd to Janeway( only for being totally alone in Delta Quadrant)

Kirk is in 3rd Place

Picard is 4th ( that Picard Manuever was his first and last truly brilliant move)

Sisko is dead last IMO.

Last edited by imajakov; October 6 2013 at 09:00 PM.
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Old October 6 2013, 09:01 PM   #34
R. Star
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Re: Best tactician? Kirk,Picard, Sisko or Janeway?

Wow... four years is acceptable time length to make a new thread... though I too voted for Sisko before I realized it was that old.
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Old October 6 2013, 09:29 PM   #35
Melakon
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Re: Best tactician? Kirk,Picard, Sisko or Janeway?

^ Well it is Halloween month after all, so ghost threads are to be expected occasionally.
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Old October 6 2013, 09:57 PM   #36
BigJake
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Re: Best tactician? Kirk,Picard, Sisko or Janeway?

I voted Kirk, but it's something of a comparison of apples to oranges to kiwis to grapefruit to prunes.

We get to see Kirk at least twice in scenarios that are really well sold as quasi-realistic tactical situations; we aren't just told how great he is, we are actually shown it.

This is less true of Picard because while we're told that he's great, TNG had little in the way of convincing space battles, and during the major exception he was assimilated by the Borg. Picard was really more convincingly presented most of the time as the kind of leader who knew that winning without fighting, rather than fighting to win, was the acme of skill.

DS9 had plenty of battles but mostly presented Sisko's core skillsets as being in scheming and counter-scheming, intel and counter-intel work and sheer testicular fortitude. He was like Picard with a streak of pure ruthlessness underneath. A fine character but his greatness wasn't really in battle tactics as such.

VOY and ENT both make cases for their Captains to be great tactician, but in Janeway's case it's because the Borg have been thoroughly nerfed by the time she encounters them, the moreso yet when they turned oup on ENT. Victory-by-writers'-contrivance doesn't really count as great tactics.
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Old October 6 2013, 10:24 PM   #37
davidant32
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Re: Best tactician? Kirk,Picard, Sisko or Janeway?

I'd say Janeway, and I'm not a Janeway fan by any means compared to some of the other Trek protagonists, but she did manage to make friends with the Borg to eliminate a species and then later made nice with that same species she plotted against.
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Old October 6 2013, 11:26 PM   #38
jpv2000
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Re: Best tactician? Kirk,Picard, Sisko or Janeway?

FPAlpha wrote: View Post
As has been said Riker is overlooked.. he's easily one of the best officers Starfleet has and only recently got his own ship. He's very smart, quick wits and he rarely plays by the book and likes to improvise (to great success). That makes him a brilliant tactician and given a bit more time will easily fill the shoes of Picard and maybe make his own impression on Starfleet.
Agreed. I would have voted for Riker.

Out of the current list my vote went to Kirk, with Sisko as a close second.
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Old October 7 2013, 06:03 PM   #39
Cyke101
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Re: Best tactician? Kirk,Picard, Sisko or Janeway?

Melakon wrote: View Post
^ Well it is Halloween month after all, so ghost threads are to be expected occasionally.


Well, if we're playing this game, while I might not think that Picard's that great of a tactician (his skill is diplomacy), I think OP's assessment of him is a bit unfair. His not rising up through the ranks wasn't because of his lack of killer instinct, but because he chose not to ascend, IIRC. He felt his place was on the bridge, and not admiralty.
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Old October 7 2013, 06:46 PM   #40
TheGoodStuff
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Re: Best tactician? Kirk,Picard, Sisko or Janeway?

This is a tough one.

Picard, as a DIPLOMATIC tactician would win this hands down. But in actual combat, beside the Picard Maneuver, doesn't really stand out tactically. Even Riker seems to have him on the ropes in a 70 year old ship.

Kirk, likewise, is full of bravado and a great bluffer. His confidence is what wins his scenarios...not sheer tactical brilliance.

So for me, this is between Sisko, Janeway and Archer.

Archer used an inferior ship to defeat enemy vessels quite a few times and did it unsupported. His tactics in the Xindi conflict were crucial and a success. However, he does some times seem out of his depth. Im unsure whether to blame him or the inadequate ship.

Sisko fought the Dominion and was frequently shown to be cunning, though also quite reckless. His ship, and its unique design certainly seemed to favour him.

My vote, however, goes for Janeway. She has bravado too, like Kirk, but she fuses it with a guile that I admire. She has frequently tactically outwitted numerous captains/species and is an expert at turning a situation to her advantage [while usually hiding that fact from her foe]. She played the Borg when she needed to, placated 8472 and has multiple space combats where she had dreamt up something quite exceptional.
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Old October 8 2013, 04:06 PM   #41
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Re: Best tactician? Kirk,Picard, Sisko or Janeway?

To me, it comes down to one question; who would I want to have as my captain, and that's easy - Kirk!
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Old October 8 2013, 04:39 PM   #42
Elias Vaughn
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Re: Best tactician? Kirk,Picard, Sisko or Janeway?

Sisko.

number6 wrote: View Post
Sorry for the driveby, but
Every time I see this thread I think it's a poll on who has the Best Testicles.
...Janeway.
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Old October 8 2013, 05:04 PM   #43
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Re: Best tactician? Kirk,Picard, Sisko or Janeway?

The guy who invented "The Corbomite Maneuver"
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Old October 8 2013, 08:31 PM   #44
JirinPanthosa
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Re: Best tactician? Kirk,Picard, Sisko or Janeway?

Kirk and Sisko are the only two real choices here. Picard's more of a diplomat and Janeway 'Follows her gut'.

I'm surprised Sisko is beating Kirk in the war though. Sisko is good at war strategy, but he's not as much as a tactician. Strategy and tactics are two different things. Strategy is your overall approach to a large struggle, and tactics are specific maneuvers. The DS9 writers didn't focus as much on tactics as the TOS writers, there was nothing like The Corbomite Maneuver or Balance of Terror where Sisko has to take into account all the specifics of how an enemy might be thinking to trick them into making bad decisions.

Sisko is the best strategist, Kirk is the best tactician.

Picard is the best diplomat, Janeway is the best prison cook.
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Old October 8 2013, 09:38 PM   #45
Nightdiamond
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Re: Best tactician? Kirk,Picard, Sisko or Janeway?

One of the best strategy episodes I ever saw was from Balance of Terror. First they discussed the whole thing at the table to make it tense.

Then it was one trick against the other, like Kirk pulling out the old nuclear warheads.

Picard was good in Yesterday's Enterprise, Riker in BOBW was good, but for me there was too much techno babble solutions in TNG.

One of the coolest things I ever saw Sisko do, battle and tactic wise, is fly into a fleet of Jem Hadar war ships to rescue someone, rescued them, and then fought his way out again.

Sisko also had WOTW, CTA, SOA--Sisko gets the win just based on all those battle experiences. He knows how to fight.


Nardpuncher wrote: View Post
I always thought Scotty was just incredible whenever he was left in command. I mean that, check the episodes where he's in command...he was the original Sisko.
I like the way TOS handled their command--Scotty-- no nonsense stuff.


"This is the commander of the USS Enterprise. All cities and installations on Eminiar Seven have been located, identified, and fed into our fire-control system"... That sounded like an X.O.

Last edited by Nightdiamond; October 8 2013 at 10:06 PM.
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