RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 141,522
Posts: 5,512,325
Members: 25,138
Currently online: 424
Newest member: Tosty82

TrekToday headlines

Captain Kirk’s Boldest Missions
By: T'Bonz on Dec 25

Trek Paper Clips
By: T'Bonz on Dec 24

Sargent Passes
By: T'Bonz on Dec 23

QMx Trek Insignia Badges
By: T'Bonz on Dec 23

And The New Director Of Star Trek 3 Is…
By: T'Bonz on Dec 23

TV Alert: Pine On Tonight Show
By: T'Bonz on Dec 22

Retro Review: The Emperor’s New Cloak
By: Michelle on Dec 20

Star Trek Opera
By: T'Bonz on Dec 19

New Abrams Project
By: T'Bonz on Dec 18

IDW Publishing March 2015 Comics
By: T'Bonz on Dec 17


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Entertainment & Interests > Science Fiction & Fantasy

Science Fiction & Fantasy Farscape, Babylon 5, Star Wars, Firefly, vampires, genre books and film.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old February 16 2010, 06:19 PM   #1
Joe Washington
Fleet Captain
 
Location: Providence, Rhode Island, United States
Dollhouse post-Season 2

Imagine the show didn't get the axe and Joss was allowed to do more with the story after the Season 2 finale. What would have happened? What would be the kind of things you would have liked to have happened to the show and the characters?
Joe Washington is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 16 2010, 06:36 PM   #2
Forbin
Admiral
 
Forbin's Avatar
 
Location: I said out, dammit!
Re: Dollhouse post-Season 2

We'll find out in the inevitable "Dollhouse - After the Thoughtpocalypse" comic books.
Forbin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 16 2010, 07:08 PM   #3
Joe Washington
Fleet Captain
 
Location: Providence, Rhode Island, United States
Re: Dollhouse post-Season 2

There aren't to be any comic books or web shows or movies on Dollhouse. Whedon said so himself.
Joe Washington is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 16 2010, 07:25 PM   #4
Takeru
Fleet Captain
 
Takeru's Avatar
 
Re: Dollhouse post-Season 2

Joe Washington wrote: View Post
There aren't to be any comic books or web shows or movies on Dollhouse. Whedon said so himself.
But Fox owns Dollhouse, right? In that case it's their decision, not Whedon's.
Takeru is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 17 2010, 01:30 AM   #5
Chaos Descending
Vice Admiral
 
Chaos Descending's Avatar
 
Location: Grand Canyon State
Re: Dollhouse post-Season 2

Takeru wrote: View Post
Joe Washington wrote: View Post
There aren't to be any comic books or web shows or movies on Dollhouse. Whedon said so himself.
But Fox owns Dollhouse, right? In that case it's their decision, not Whedon's.
Do we know this to be true? I'm under the assumption that it's not.
__________________
"Romanes eunt domus"
- Brian
Chaos Descending is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 17 2010, 02:14 AM   #6
Christopher
Writer
 
Christopher's Avatar
 
Re: Dollhouse post-Season 2

Dollhouse was actually created as part of Eliza Dushku's development deal with FOX. It's a co-production of 20th Century Fox Television, Dushku's Boston Diva Productions, and Whedon's Mutant Enemy Productions (grrr, argh). I'm pretty sure FOX holds the copyright. Maybe someone who has the DVDs could check them for copyright information?
__________________
Christopher L. Bennett Homepage -- Site update 11/16/14 including annotations for "The Caress of a Butterfly's Wing" and overview for DTI: The Collectors

Written Worlds -- My blog
Christopher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 17 2010, 02:47 AM   #7
StarshipDefiant
Captain
 
Re: Dollhouse post-Season 2

Fox owns distribution rights on the current seasons and what not, but further tales, comics and what not, I'd imagine would work out as the Firefly/Angel/Buffy ones do, what Joss wants for those, Joss gets. That is, the current episodes are likely copyrighted to FOX, but Joss and Eliza probably have a work in somewhere that they'd be able to continue the concept in another medium if they had so wished to (like the previous mentions). Considering it was canceled due to low ratings though, I doubt it'll be to much of an issue. Either way, I'll check the DVDs and see what the end credits and the like say (or someone else can, either way).

As for what would happen, likely what we saw in 12/13 would have been expanded for seasons three four and five (11 was made prior to, and during episode 11), but from what I hear, season two was 'telescoped' to contain the future season plans as well. In any case, likely the story would have shown Alpha's turn to being good, the rise of the tech (maybe a resurgence in Rossum or something). Considering that Pryia and Anthony were no longer actives (Sierra and Victor), likely the path to them being a couple, having issues and a son would have been seen, and the discovery somewhere they can upload imprints by using a flashdrive. Topher's decent would have been seen, etc...

I guess that's obvious...
__________________
Mal: I aim to misbehave
Whiskey: I know where to find food. In the kitchen.
Bennett: D-did you just...try to tase me?
StarshipDefiant is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 17 2010, 03:55 AM   #8
TremblingBluStar
Vice Admiral
 
TremblingBluStar's Avatar
 
Location: Fort Dodge, IA
Re: Dollhouse post-Season 2

Joe Washington wrote: View Post
Imagine the show didn't get the axe and Joss was allowed to do more with the story after the Season 2 finale. What would have happened? What would be the kind of things you would have liked to have happened to the show and the characters?
I don't know. I personally had a very hard time getting into the show. It just didn't have that spark Joss' other shows had.

I did enjoy the finale, however, and would have liked seeing more of a post-apocalyptic type show in that style. Does anybody know if that is where the show was headed for season 3? Or was that a special case of wrapping up the intended plot in one episode because the show was canceled?
TremblingBluStar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 17 2010, 05:29 AM   #9
Christopher
Writer
 
Christopher's Avatar
 
Re: Dollhouse post-Season 2

I think the post-apocalyptic idea only came along when they decided to do "Epitaph One" as a bonus episode for the DVD. They had to shoot it cheaply and simultaneously with a regular episode, so it needed a different cast, and Whedon decided to peek ten years ahead and extrapolate the premise to its logical outcome. Once that episode was made, though, it colored everything that followed. And once it became evident that this season would almost certainly be the last, Whedon decided to revisit that post-apocalyptic setting for the finale, since he knew he was unlikely to get the chance again. Certainly the storytelling for most of the season was accelerated compared to how it would've gone if they'd had a realistic expectation of a longer run.

No show is really completely planned out in advance. There are always new discoveries and possibilities turning up along the way, and those refine the path it takes. Generally a long-term plan for a series isn't a beat-by-beat schedule, but a set of loose ideas for character and arc developments, with the specifics firming up along the way and the details changing in response to new developments and inspirations.
__________________
Christopher L. Bennett Homepage -- Site update 11/16/14 including annotations for "The Caress of a Butterfly's Wing" and overview for DTI: The Collectors

Written Worlds -- My blog
Christopher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 17 2010, 05:59 AM   #10
DarthPipes
Vice Admiral
 
DarthPipes's Avatar
 
Re: Dollhouse post-Season 2

I've read someone speculate that Whedon's unwillingness to do any kind of a spinoff for Dollhouse is proof (in the reviewer's opinion) that his heart really wasn't into this series.
DarthPipes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 17 2010, 07:19 AM   #11
StarshipDefiant
Captain
 
Re: Dollhouse post-Season 2

Christopher wrote: View Post
I think the post-apocalyptic idea only came along when they decided to do "Epitaph One" as a bonus episode for the DVD. They had to shoot it cheaply and simultaneously with a regular episode, so it needed a different cast, and Whedon decided to peek ten years ahead and extrapolate the premise to its logical outcome. Once that episode was made, though, it colored everything that followed. And once it became evident that this season would almost certainly be the last, Whedon decided to revisit that post-apocalyptic setting for the finale, since he knew he was unlikely to get the chance again. Certainly the storytelling for most of the season was accelerated compared to how it would've gone if they'd had a realistic expectation of a longer run.

No show is really completely planned out in advance. There are always new discoveries and possibilities turning up along the way, and those refine the path it takes. Generally a long-term plan for a series isn't a beat-by-beat schedule, but a set of loose ideas for character and arc developments, with the specifics firming up along the way and the details changing in response to new developments and inspirations.
Which is pretty much what he did, he made a loose idea, something to try and provide direction, and not set in stone (as he well knew that in television, especially in his experiences with FOX, his plans are never in stone). Likely, his 'plans' for each season as written (according to series star Eliza Dushku) was simply a half a dozen or so points he wanted to see explored/happen and what needed to lead up (if anything) for the next season. Other then that, I think they somewhat played it by ear.

DarthPipes wrote: View Post
I've read someone speculate that Whedon's unwillingness to do any kind of a spinoff for Dollhouse is proof (in the reviewer's opinion) that his heart really wasn't into this series.
I've heard something similar, but his sister-in-law (judging by her tweets) seemed pretty floored by those comments (She was one of the writers and played Kilo). Joss' comments himself, also seem to suggest otherwise, and that while he wasn't planing on getting back into TV anytime soon (can't blame him, really), and that he did somewhat start this as a favor to Eliza (as Christoper mentioned earlier, she had a development deal with FOX), he was into the series, enjoyed working with the people that he did so, and was upset of the cancellation (I don't know if he was serious or not, bit I recall him referencing to bing drinking upon finding out the show was canceled). Likely, not continuing is the result of having already done so for Angel, Buffy, and Firefly/Serenity while (from what I hear) preparing for a second installment to Dr. Horrible (yay), and the very premise of Dollhouse, the way the ran the series and ended it, it was effectively wrapped up, there would be no real reason to do it, except to serve as back story and to put the name out there in another medium.

This is likely one of the core reasons, further 'tales' would simply be back story, while it'd certainly be interesting, I can see the point that there is no reason to. As I mentioned, unlike Buffy, or Angel (which for the latter, was intended to have more seasons) and Firefly/Serenity (which obviously had more intended for it), the series ended in a way that anything else would be filler back story. I mean, sure, there is like a nine, ten year gap, but the Epitaphs filled in enough to give you an idea. Alpha became a good person, Pryia and Anthony had a kid together Echo became a real girl, pretty much the end result of things to see, were seen.

Not...that it doesn't disappoint he wont make some comics or anything for Dollhouse.
__________________
Mal: I aim to misbehave
Whiskey: I know where to find food. In the kitchen.
Bennett: D-did you just...try to tase me?
StarshipDefiant is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 17 2010, 02:50 PM   #12
Christopher
Writer
 
Christopher's Avatar
 
Re: Dollhouse post-Season 2

DarthPipes wrote: View Post
I've read someone speculate that Whedon's unwillingness to do any kind of a spinoff for Dollhouse is proof (in the reviewer's opinion) that his heart really wasn't into this series.
That doesn't make any sense, either in this specific case or on general principles. Not every story has to go on forever. Different stories work at different lengths. Some stories are open-ended, others have definite conclusions. It's nonsensical to suggest that there's some correlation between the duration of a story and the commitment of its creator.

If anything, the fact that Whedon managed to tell this story so completely and richly in just 26 episodes is evidence that he did pour his heart into it, that he didn't hold anything back. Despite the show's growing pains, Whedon managed to tell a remarkably rich, full-bodied work of science fiction and brought it to a satisfactory resolution. That's not the work of someone whose heart isn't in it.
__________________
Christopher L. Bennett Homepage -- Site update 11/16/14 including annotations for "The Caress of a Butterfly's Wing" and overview for DTI: The Collectors

Written Worlds -- My blog
Christopher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 18 2010, 03:45 AM   #13
Snow Miser
I'm Too Much
 
Snow Miser's Avatar
 
Location: Ice-related Pun
View Snow Miser's Twitter Profile Send a message via ICQ to Snow Miser Send a message via AIM to Snow Miser
Re: Dollhouse post-Season 2

The whole show was about Echo becoming a person and bringing down Rossum, the finale did that.

Really the only thing that could be shown would be the little details of how Alpha turned good, I think the Paul imprint sort of drove him towards it. It was able to control him for a limited time at first. The rest was either told to use or hinted at.
__________________
Have An Awesome Possum Holiday!
Snow Miser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 18 2010, 04:01 AM   #14
Christopher
Writer
 
Christopher's Avatar
 
Re: Dollhouse post-Season 2

Actually the show ended up being about something bigger than that, how the technology of brain reprogramming transformed society. In the end, it wasn't really about Rossum. The heroes defeated Rossum in the penultimate episode -- but the tech got out anyway, because that's how technology works: it happens when the groundwork has been laid, so if one entity is stopped from developing it, someone else will. Indeed, Boyd's plan was to use Rossum's resources to protect himself and his chosen few against the inevitable proliferation of the tech by getting it first and developing countermeasures to it. Ultimately, Rossum wasn't the source of the evil, just one misguided attempt to cope with the inevitable tide. The whole series was essentially about people making moral compromises and doing bad things because they believed it was in the greater good.

And it wasn't ultimately about Echo either, not only. If you think about it, she didn't really play a major role in the finale. Her main role was gathering together the people who did save the world. It started out being about Echo, and her development was a key throughline, but it became much more of an ensemble piece.
__________________
Christopher L. Bennett Homepage -- Site update 11/16/14 including annotations for "The Caress of a Butterfly's Wing" and overview for DTI: The Collectors

Written Worlds -- My blog
Christopher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 18 2010, 07:23 AM   #15
StarshipDefiant
Captain
 
Re: Dollhouse post-Season 2

Likely, that was Echo's role the entire time, to gather the people that helped to fight the war, and ultimately, save the planet from the tech. I also very much doubt that Rossum was 'defeated' the mere fact the corporate heads had numerous backup wedges figure into this, likely they let things cool down and subtly began pulling at the strings of things. Daniel Perrin, for instance, was likely to still become president by 2012 and make Rossum's actions legal, and a wide sort of other things. I really would have to wonder it being other wise, considering what we saw in the actual final episode, the war still being against Rossum/the tech.

Also, her reason for being 'immune' is dubious at best, when you consider Alpha, Sierra and Victor (the latter two having chemistry no matter what the imprints are), at least as far as her being seemingly the 'only' one.

This is what would have been answered in the seasons we didn't get ><
__________________
Mal: I aim to misbehave
Whiskey: I know where to find food. In the kitchen.
Bennett: D-did you just...try to tase me?
StarshipDefiant is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 10:26 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.