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Trek Literature "...Good words. That's where ideas begin."

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Old January 7 2009, 05:50 AM   #1
Semah
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ARRRRRGH!! Somebody just spoil Resistance for me! (spoilers)

I can't finish this book. Picard just willingly re-Locuted himself for a stupid plan and my brain exploded. Please someone tell me how it ends so I can move on to other Star Trek books, kthx.
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Old January 7 2009, 05:53 AM   #2
William Leisner
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Re: ARRRRRGH!! Somebody just spoil Resistance for me! (spoilers)

Semah wrote: View Post
I can't finish this book. Picard just willingly re-Locuted himself for a stupid plan and my brain exploded. Please someone tell me how it ends so I can move on to other Star Trek books, kthx.
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Old January 7 2009, 05:59 AM   #3
Julio Angel Ortiz
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Re: ARRRRRGH!! Somebody just spoil Resistance for me! (spoilers)

William Leisner wrote: View Post
Semah wrote: View Post
I can't finish this book. Picard just willingly re-Locuted himself for a stupid plan and my brain exploded. Please someone tell me how it ends so I can move on to other Star Trek books, kthx.
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Old January 7 2009, 06:03 AM   #4
Semah
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Re: ARRRRRGH!! Somebody just spoil Resistance for me! (spoilers)

Thank you. This is my first ever foray into post Nemesis fiction. All 3 Destiny novels are on their way to me as well as PAD's novel. I had that one spoiled for me, but I do not care because I approve of the plotline. But, man Resistance was rough.
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Old January 7 2009, 06:15 AM   #5
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Re: ARRRRRGH!! Somebody just spoil Resistance for me! (spoilers)

Most people seem to think the other two post-Nemesis TNG books, Q&A and Greater Than The Sum, are vastly better than the two you got. (I disagree, I like Before Dishonor, but either way). You might want to check those out, too.
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Old January 7 2009, 06:16 AM   #6
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Re: ARRRRRGH!! Somebody just spoil Resistance for me! (spoilers)

William Leisner wrote: View Post
Semah wrote: View Post
I can't finish this book. Picard just willingly re-Locuted himself for a stupid plan and my brain exploded. Please someone tell me how it ends so I can move on to other Star Trek books, kthx.
Did we read the same book?



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Old January 7 2009, 08:19 AM   #7
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Re: ARRRRRGH!! Somebody just spoil Resistance for me! (spoilers)

Semah wrote: View Post
Thank you. This is my first ever foray into post Nemesis fiction. All 3 Destiny novels are on their way to me as well as PAD's novel. I had that one spoiled for me, but I do not care because I approve of the plotline. But, man Resistance was rough.
I recommend that you get Q&A and Greater than the Sum as well. Q&A is one of the best of the post Nemesis fiction and the last chapters of Greater than the Sum lead directly into Destiny.

As for Before Dishonor, well I think (personally) it's one of the the worst pieces of fiction ever written - but that's beside the point. I hope you enjoy it.
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Old January 7 2009, 08:34 AM   #8
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Re: ARRRRRGH!! Somebody just spoil Resistance for me! (spoilers)

Edit: For the benefit of the OP, there are SPOILERS below for the rest of the TNG relaunch.







If I'm wrong about this, please correct me, but was this plan in Resistance of injecting the Queen with testosterone (or whatever the heck it was), not supposed to result in the end of the Queen forever? Wasn't that why the Borg adopted Janeway as their Queen in Before Dishonor? Yet she's back again in Destiny (and I don't recall about Greater Than the Sum). I'm sure if this was the case some sort of explanation would have been given. It's been a while so maybe I'm way off base. I've just read so many Borg stories recently it had been getting hard to keep all the details straight.

It seems someone at the drawing board was absolutely determined to tell the ultimate Borg story and (while this may not be the case), it came across to me that Before Dishonor was originally supposed to be that story, what with many major characters from several series, the fate of Janeway, and let's not forget the planet-eating, and Resistance was to be a part of the preparation for that. But it seems that it was felt that this was insufficient so Destiny was thought up and Greater Than the Sum (while an individual story in its own right) was now a bit of a lead in to that story. I don't mean this to be disrespectful to any of these novels or their authors as I did enjoy them all. It just seems like the coherence between the stories could have been a bit better.
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Old January 7 2009, 08:45 AM   #9
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Re: ARRRRRGH!! Somebody just spoil Resistance for me! (spoilers)

Elemental wrote: View Post
Edit: For the benefit of the OP, there are SPOILERS below for the rest of the TNG relaunch.

If I'm wrong about this, please correct me, but was this plan in Resistance of injecting the Queen with testosterone (or whatever the heck it was), not supposed to result in the end of the Queen forever? Wasn't that why the Borg adopted Janeway as their Queen in Before Dishonor? Yet she's back again in Destiny (and I don't recall about Greater Than the Sum). I'm sure if this was the case some sort of explanation would have been given. It's been a while so maybe I'm way off base. I've just read so many Borg stories recently it had been getting hard to keep all the details straight.
I haven't read Resistance, but it was thoroughly established in Before Dishonor, Greater Than the Sum, and Destiny that the Borg supercube seen in Resistance and Before Dishonor was not in contact with the rest of the Collective -- it was, in essence, its own mini-Collective that was going to grow and then get itself back in touch with the rest of the Collective in the DQ.

It seems someone at the drawing board was absolutely determined to tell the ultimate Borg story and (while this may not be the case), it came across to me that Before Dishonor was originally supposed to be that story, what with many major characters from several series, the fate of Janeway, and let's not forget the planet-eating, and Resistance was to be a part of the preparation for that. But it seems that it was felt that this was insufficient so Destiny was thought up and Greater Than the Sum (while an individual story in its own right) was now a bit of a lead in to that story. I don't mean this to be disrespectful to any of these novels or their authors as I did enjoy them all. It just seems like the coherence between the stories could have been a bit better.
David Mack has made it clear that the idea of bringing the Borg back was his notion, and that he did that because he felt that if they'd brought the Borg back to the table in the previous TNG novels, they needed to do a story that would deal with them once and for all.
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Old January 7 2009, 06:34 PM   #10
William Leisner
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Re: ARRRRRGH!! Somebody just spoil Resistance for me! (spoilers)

Trent Roman wrote: View Post
William Leisner wrote: View Post
Semah wrote: View Post
I can't finish this book. Picard just willingly re-Locuted himself for a stupid plan and my brain exploded. Please someone tell me how it ends so I can move on to other Star Trek books, kthx.
Did we read the same book?
Well, I read it over a year ago.
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Old January 7 2009, 06:52 PM   #11
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Re: ARRRRRGH!! Somebody just spoil Resistance for me! (spoilers)

Elemental wrote: View Post
If I'm wrong about this, please correct me, but was this plan in Resistance of injecting the Queen with testosterone (or whatever the heck it was), not supposed to result in the end of the Queen forever?
Only in the sense that it was presumed to give Starfleet a weapon that they could subsequently use to prevent the formation of new Borg Queens, thus allowing them (in theory) to neutralize the Borg as a threat in the future. Although as they learned in GTTS, it wasn't as easy to do that as they allowed themselves to believe at first.

Wasn't that why the Borg adopted Janeway as their Queen in Before Dishonor?
The particular isolated Borg supercube seen in RES/BD, which was cut off from the rest of the Collective by the destruction of the transwarp hub in "Endgame," therefore needed to create its own Queen in order to function effectively. As a population of androgynous, incubated drones, these Borg needed to use the "royal jelly" formulation depicted in RES to "feminize" a drone so it could become a Queen. After RES, Starfleet removed all the drones from the supercube, so there were no drones left to create a new Queen out of. So the remaining inorganic half of the Borg consciousness -- i.e. the "empty" supercube -- needed to assimilate a new humanoid body, namely Janeway's, to use as the host for the Queen consciousness.

Yet she's back again in Destiny (and I don't recall about Greater Than the Sum). I'm sure if this was the case some sort of explanation would have been given.
The Einstein Borg in GTTS are an offshoot of those assimilated by the "evolved" supercube of BD. The Janeway Queen implanted them with enough of the Royal Protocol (the Queen software) that they could operate semi-autonomously, without needing a Queen.

But these were, again, the last remnants of the isolated population of Borg that was threatening Starfleet through much of 2380. The Borg from Destiny were the main population of Borg from the Delta Quadrant, a separate group with their own Queen.


It seems someone at the drawing board was absolutely determined to tell the ultimate Borg story and (while this may not be the case), it came across to me that Before Dishonor was originally supposed to be that story, what with many major characters from several series, the fate of Janeway, and let's not forget the planet-eating, and Resistance was to be a part of the preparation for that. But it seems that it was felt that this was insufficient so Destiny was thought up and Greater Than the Sum (while an individual story in its own right) was now a bit of a lead in to that story.
GTTS was never not a lead-in to Destiny. I wasn't even invited to do the book until after Dave had written the outline to the trilogy, and my specific assignment was to bridge the gap between BD and DES, to tie up the remaining loose ends from prior TNG-R novels and set up the board for the trilogy.

I'm also pretty sure that Dave must've been working on the DES outline at the same time that the earlier TNG-R books were being written. So I think it would be incorrect to call it something that was thought up later than the rest.
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Old January 7 2009, 08:11 PM   #12
Trent Roman
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Re: ARRRRRGH!! Somebody just spoil Resistance for me! (spoilers)

William Leisner wrote: View Post
Trent Roman wrote: View Post
Did we read the same book?
Well, I read it over a year ago.
Oh. We've just been having so many interpretative differences, I assumed this was going to be another. Sorry if I came off harsh.

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Old January 7 2009, 08:26 PM   #13
William Leisner
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Re: ARRRRRGH!! Somebody just spoil Resistance for me! (spoilers)

Trent Roman wrote: View Post
William Leisner wrote: View Post
Trent Roman wrote: View Post
Did we read the same book?
Well, I read it over a year ago.
Oh. We've just been having so many interpretative differences, I assumed this was going to be another. Sorry if I came off harsh.
No sweat. This old brain just failed to retain the specifics of the book's third act. I just remembered they went aboard the cube and ultimately disabled it.

Plus, my short blunt answer was funnier.
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Old January 7 2009, 08:28 PM   #14
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Re: ARRRRRGH!! Somebody just spoil Resistance for me! (spoilers)

William Leisner wrote: View Post
Trent Roman wrote: View Post
William Leisner wrote: View Post
Well, I read it over a year ago.
Oh. We've just been having so many interpretative differences, I assumed this was going to be another. Sorry if I came off harsh.
No sweat. This old brain just failed to retain the specifics of the book's third act. I just remembered they went aboard the cube and ultimately disabled it.

Plus, my short blunt answer was funnier.

Agreed.

Would have saved time, too.
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Old January 8 2009, 10:37 PM   #15
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Re: ARRRRRGH!! Somebody just spoil Resistance for me! (spoilers)

Finally got round to reading Resistance recently, after having read Before Dishonour and Q&A (yes, I did them back to front). Not read GTTS or Destiny yet. So I feel partially qualified to put forth my two-penn'orth.

Christopher wrote: View Post
The particular isolated Borg supercube seen in RES/BD, which was cut off from the rest of the Collective by the destruction of the transwarp hub in "Endgame," therefore needed to create its own Queen in order to function effectively.
Yeah, I didn't quite grasp how they got there in the first place. If the transwarp hub was destroyed in "Endgame," and the only ship to get through it prior was the Queen's Ship, which was destroyed, then where did these guys come from? Is that something from VOY: Homecoming that I missed?

Christopher wrote: View Post
As a population of androgynous, incubated drones, these Borg needed to use the "royal jelly" formulation depicted in RES to "feminize" a drone so it could become a Queen.
Didn't really like that either. I do not like the idea that the drones are androgynous. I know it's based on Q's line way back in "Q Who?", to wit, "Not a he, not a she." But I never saw the Borg as actually not having gender, just that gender was irrelevant. What would be the point of them removing all traces of gender from the DNA of every single life-form they encounter and assimilate? It just becomes irrelevant in the new drone's life, that's all. So to say that a "feminizing" compound was required to create a queen was based on a flawed premise, IMO. I realize it's based on the insect paradigm, but insects aren't born as gendered life-forms to begin with before having it removed.

Christopher wrote: View Post
The Einstein Borg in GTTS are an offshoot of those assimilated by the "evolved" supercube of BD. The Janeway Queen implanted them with enough of the Royal Protocol (the Queen software) that they could operate semi-autonomously, without needing a Queen.

But these were, again, the last remnants of the isolated population of Borg that was threatening Starfleet through much of 2380. The Borg from Destiny were the main population of Borg from the Delta Quadrant, a separate group with their own Queen.
Clearly and succinctly explained, thank you.
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