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Old January 14 2009, 10:29 PM   #1
Guy Gardener
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Who did Kim kill for the bridge officer's qualification exam?

Deanna had to kill Holo-Geordie to save the ship in a simulation during TNG Thine Own Self. Harry made such a deal about getting command experience and taking the Night Shift, but if he passed this exam before he was allowed to take command, probably at some point while they were lost in space, who could Harry have sent to their death and who could he have never murdered for the benefit of greater good?
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Old January 14 2009, 10:34 PM   #2
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Re: Who did Kim kill for the bridge officer's qualification exam?

Ironically, himself.

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Old January 15 2009, 01:59 AM   #3
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Re: Who did Kim kill for the bridge officer's qualification exam?

Guy Gardener wrote: View Post
Deanna had to kill Holo-Geordie to save the ship in a simulation during TNG Thine Own Self. Harry made such a deal about getting command experience and taking the Night Shift, but if he passed this exam before he was allowed to take command, probably at some point while they were lost in space, who could Harry have sent to their death and who could he have never murdered for the benefit of greater good?
I am very uncomfortable with the use of the word "murdered" in this context. However, if it were necessary to give orders that would certainly imperil the lives of the crew involved, I think Harry would have a tough time sending Paris to his death—though I think he ultimately could hack it. (I would have said Seven, but she is not in Starfleet and he would not really ever have any particular authority to order her to do anything.)
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Old January 15 2009, 02:14 AM   #4
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Re: Who did Kim kill for the bridge officer's qualification exam?

Isn't each test configured for the psychological profile of each person taking the test?

Who does Harry respect the most?
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Old January 15 2009, 03:33 AM   #5
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Re: Who did Kim kill for the bridge officer's qualification exam?

JNG wrote: View Post
Guy Gardener wrote: View Post
Deanna had to kill Holo-Geordie to save the ship in a simulation during TNG Thine Own Self. Harry made such a deal about getting command experience and taking the Night Shift, but if he passed this exam before he was allowed to take command, probably at some point while they were lost in space, who could Harry have sent to their death and who could he have never murdered for the benefit of greater good?
I am very uncomfortable with the use of the word "murdered" in this context. However, if it were necessary to give orders that would certainly imperil the lives of the crew involved, I think Harry would have a tough time sending Paris to his death—though I think he ultimately could hack it. (I would have said Seven, but she is not in Starfleet and he would not really ever have any particular authority to order her to do anything.)
Why, he would murder them, though it goes with the job.

Actually Harry is higher ranking than Seven and he has ordered her around before, see Nightingale.

It would be Paris or Janeway.
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Old January 15 2009, 03:44 AM   #6
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Re: Who did Kim kill for the bridge officer's qualification exam?

It think my new signature will now read: " Guy Gardner's threads make my head spin faster then the girl from the Exorsist" LOL
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Old January 15 2009, 05:02 AM   #7
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Re: Who did Kim kill for the bridge officer's qualification exam?

Boy Wonder wrote: View Post

Actually Harry is higher ranking than Seven and he has ordered her around before, see Nightingale.
I recall that Janeway described Seven in that episode as being "outside" the chain of command. But really how many times could seven possibly reply "stuff it" or "eat me" before she would be completely unusable as a crewman. Meanwhile Seven was put in charge of everyone in the Omega Directive and the only problem she had in the Hierarchy she established to get the job done was one Harold Kim who went rogue.
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Old January 15 2009, 05:23 AM   #8
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Re: Who did Kim kill for the bridge officer's qualification exam?

Starfleet drones should be used to following orders, they are a military organisation, after all.
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Old January 15 2009, 05:31 AM   #9
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Re: Who did Kim kill for the bridge officer's qualification exam?

Perhaps not anyone from Voyager's crew. Harry was already a bridge officer - you would assume for one of the key posts like Ops Manager - when Voyager launched so maybe he took it while still at the academy? Counselor Troi, Doctor Crusher weren't exactly Command or Operations tracked personnel so they may not have had to take it to graduate.

Then again maybe that was why he was never promoted: he never took the test. Troi got another pip when she took the test.
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Old January 15 2009, 06:48 AM   #10
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Re: Who did Kim kill for the bridge officer's qualification exam?

Well he was given total command of the ship in Futures End.

Hardly the night shift.

Remember the fearful looks on everyones faces when Savvik piloted the Enterprise out of Space Dock? McCoy made plop plops. Giving even temporary command to someone as green as year one Kim just seems insane, but then after 4 years in the academy, he shouldn't still be even the darkest shade of green especially since supposedly according to some, Spock was still a cadet in The Cage.

But Harry had a gold trim on his shoulders. That's operations, not command. How funny then that Tom wore Red, but Harry seemed to be urging him to take more interest in the command track.

**Sigh**

Remember Sisko's speech to Edington about how the Gold shirts don't get to be heroes. Harry must not have been interested int he command track in the beginning, since primarily he's an engineer not a leader.
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Old January 15 2009, 02:46 PM   #11
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Re: Who did Kim kill for the bridge officer's qualification exam?

But Riker wore gold for a while, too (and his transporter twin got stuck with it), despite being the epitome of command hunger.

The ambitious but mediocre might seek command positions through yellowshirt stints. Or then brief yellowing is mandatory for somebody vying for general command jobs, to give a taste of what the future underlings do.

Yeah, I'd argue that Kim had done the equivalent of the command test during his regular four years in the Academy already, if I were the argumentative type...

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Old January 15 2009, 10:42 PM   #12
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Re: Who did Kim kill for the bridge officer's qualification exam?

Boy Wonder wrote: View Post

Why, he would murder them, though it goes with the job.

Actually Harry is higher ranking than Seven and he has ordered her around before, see Nightingale.

It would be Paris or Janeway.
If it's consensual and non-criminal, with Starfleet members accepting this risk at enlistment, I don't think you can defend the use of the term "murder" for giving such an order.

Seven doesn't have a rank as far as I know, so I am not sure how Harry can outrank her as such. Her voluntary participation in operations, which she withdraws whenever she gets pissed off or has a different opinion, cannot be equated to rank, or even to whatever binding agreements I am sure civilian scientists and whatnot who do tours on Starfleet ships have to sign.

In what situation would Kim be ordering Janeway around? Can't think of any way that could take place in the Voyager scenario.
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Old January 15 2009, 10:47 PM   #13
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Re: Who did Kim kill for the bridge officer's qualification exam?

FleetLord wrote: View Post
It think my new signature will now read: " Guy Gardner's threads make my head spin faster then the girl from the Exorsist" LOL


I find it's like reading several Hiku's posted back to back.
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Old January 15 2009, 11:01 PM   #14
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Re: Who did Kim kill for the bridge officer's qualification exam?

JNG wrote: View Post
Boy Wonder wrote: View Post

Why, he would murder them, though it goes with the job.

Actually Harry is higher ranking than Seven and he has ordered her around before, see Nightingale.

It would be Paris or Janeway.
If it's consensual and non-criminal, with Starfleet members accepting this risk at enlistment, I don't think you can defend the use of the term "murder" for giving such an order.

Seven doesn't have a rank as far as I know, so I am not sure how Harry can outrank her as such. Her voluntary participation in operations, which she withdraws whenever she gets pissed off or has a different opinion, cannot be equated to rank, or even to whatever binding agreements I am sure civilian scientists and whatnot who do tours on Starfleet ships have to sign.

In what situation would Kim be ordering Janeway around? Can't think of any way that could take place in the Voyager scenario.
When you're given command of a ship. You're in charge no matter your rank. Command has to be (for the most part officially)verbally transposed, and lets face it there are just some situations where switching command would be a liability if the situation was insanely tense, like half way through a fire fight as the crew is bracing for impact. So janeway could in fact be pushed around by Kim in such a situation, because I recall in Futures End, when Chakotay was chasing down the Aeon, that Kathy didn't take her chair, but went to manually launch a torpedo since it would have castrated Chuckles more than usual to steal a really interesting adventure from him.
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Old January 19 2009, 07:44 AM   #15
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Re: Who did Kim kill for the bridge officer's qualification exam?

Guy Gardener wrote: View Post
Remember Sisko's speech to Edington about how the Gold shirts don't get to be heroes. Harry must not have been interested int he command track in the beginning, since primarily he's an engineer not a leader.
In Tapestry, Picard makes the comment that Security or Engineering (I think) could lead to command.
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