Kirk's status, new timeline- Really so far off? (Contains spoilers!)

[ClayHefner]

Could it be that those are two Kirks? The real one dies, and his alternate version replaces him and he's the only one who can lead the mission and finish Nero? Because Nero needs to think Kirk survived his stunts or something.

[Mr. Laser Beam]

^ I do remember an early spoiler that we would actually see both timelines during the film - and cut back and forth between them. For whatever the hell *that's* worth.

[Franklin]

Captain Robert April wrote:

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Kirk may have made Captain at a pretty young age in TOS, but he still had to rise through the ranks!

Sorry, but I don't give a fetid dingo's kidney how heroic this kid is, THERE IS NOW WAY IN HELL THAT ANY MILITARY ORGANIZATION WITH HALF A BRAIN CELL TO SHARE AMONG ITS COMMAND STAFF IS GOING TO GIVE COMMAND OF A MAJOR FRONTLINE SHIP TO SOMEONE WHO IS, LITERALLY, DAYS OUT OF THE ACADEMY!!

Forget the canon violations, it's the credibility violations that are gonna sink this one.

Somehow, I don't think he's still a cadet by the time McCoy gets him on the Enterprise. He's in black because he was brought aboard as McCoy's patient, not as a crewmember with a uniform (and rank insignia).
I mean everyone must rise in rank fast if Kirk goes from cadet to captain in just days, because McCoy already has Lt. Cmdr. stripes in one picture. Sulu has a Lt. stripe. Spock is already a full commander.

As far as rising through the ranks quickly goes, George McClellan was a captain by age 21 (1847). He was barely a year out of West Point.

[Alex1939]

Babaganoosh wrote:

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^ I do remember an early spoiler that we would actually see both timelines during the film - and cut back and forth between them. For whatever the hell *that's* worth.

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Franklin wrote:

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Somehow, I don't think he's still a cadet by the time McCoy gets him on the Enterprise. He's in black because he was brought aboard as McCoy's patient

But that's because McCoy had to *fake* Kirk's medical status in order to get him on the ship. If Kirk was already an officer of any kind, then by definition McCoy wouldn't have needed to do that.

[Jackson_Roykirk]

I'm sorry if I missed it, but was there an actual quote by Orci, Abrams, et al. or a confirmation that Kirk is actually a cadet when he is supposedly taking the command of the ship in lieu of Spock?

All I know is that Kurtzman once said about the black shirt:
"It is not a random thing. There is a reason his shirt is the color that it is."

and Entertainment Weekly Magazine wrote:
"Black is apparently the color of space cadets in Abrams' universe"

Besides Kurtzman's enigmatic and non-specific statement, plus the attempt at clever writing by the less-than-authoratative EW magazine, was there any other official indication that Kirk is wearing black because he is an underclassman cadet AND it was that underclassman cadet that (temporarily?) becomes the commanding officer of the Enterprise?

I think it is possible that Kirk is at Academy Command School, or he is possibly an Academy instructor when he "needs" to assume command over Spock.

[Flake]

Babaganoosh wrote:

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But that's because McCoy had to *fake* Kirk's medical status in order to get him on the ship. If Kirk was already an officer of any kind, then by definition McCoy wouldn't have needed to do that.

Maybe he was an officer before the Kobayashi Maru incident and was temporarily relieved of those duties pending some kind of inquiry.

[Jackson_Roykirk]

^
^^Interesting...

...perhaps Kirk's "tinkering" with the Kobayshi Maru programming was not discovered until (years?) later, and as punishment Starfleet is requiring Lt. Cmdr. Kirk to take that course again at the Academy (maybe the Kobayashi Maru test is the final for an Academy Course).

They find out he cheated on the final and make him retake the whole class.

Although in my scenerio, does he beat the test the second time, also? And if so, how?

[Mr. Laser Beam]

I find it unlikely that Kirk's tampering with the Kobayashi Maru test would not be detected until later. The mere fact that Kirk 'won' the simulation would be evidence enough, since everyone who takes it must 'lose' (i.e. fail to rescue the ship, and/or have their ship blown up by the Klingons).

[Jackson_Roykirk]

^
^^ I agree with you on that in principle -- I'm just brain-storming here.

[Mr. Laser Beam]

It is an interesting idea, though, that the only reason Kirk is a cadet during the film might be because he's (temporarily) relieved of his commission because of the cheating. It still wouldn't make it that much more plausible for him to instantly make Captain (even if he's a Lieutenant) but coupled with the inevitable time jumps, it would be slightly more believable.

[ClayHefner]

Babaganoosh wrote:

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^ I do remember an early spoiler that we would actually see both timelines during the film - and cut back and forth between them. For whatever the hell *that's* worth.

Interesting. Thanks for the info.
In any case, if Nero is somehow determined to kill Kirk, bringing alternate Kirk to either replace "real" Kirk or alternate Pike could be bait for Nero to go after Enterprise instead of Vulcan or w/e.
Maybe the story that JJ Abrams "always wanted to tell" was: What if an everyday person could "become Captain Kirk"?
. Of course this was already the theme of "Galaxy Quest".

[Mr. Laser Beam]

ClayHefner wrote:

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Interesting. Thanks for the info.

Well, as I said, it was an early spoiler. It may not survive the final cut...

And even if it does, I highly doubt that it would be possible for characters to travel between the two. We, the viewers, might see them both, but nobody in the film could.

[The Keeper]

gastrof wrote:

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Some have expressed concerns about the new timeline making impossible some of the experiences Kirk was said to have had when younger (and episodes that grew out of them), but I wonder how many have really been wrecked.

Some seem to be taking Kirk on Pike's Enterprise as a cadet with no real status at all with Starfleet, but something seems to be pointing in a different direction. What's that?

The fact he can apparently relieve Spock of command and take over the ship.

Would a cadet be able to do that with Uhura, Sulu, and the others present?

I suspect that Kirk is NOT a cadet at that point in the movie, and that at least some of what we know did already happen to him. (For example, him losing his captain on an earlier ship to the vampire cloud.)

Does anyone else get what I'm saying? Care to comment?

I am not thinking at all about what might not now happen, I am thinking about what might happen. The future is wide open and the possibility's are, again, endless!

If it sucks then I'll be in the corner gently rocking and sobbing incessantly.

[Nerys Myk]

IN the trailer we see Kirk and McCoy at least three times before they get to the Enterprise:

Cadets getting ship assignments. Kirk and McCoy on the left with backs to the camera

Golly, gee whiz cadets McCoy and Kirk


Grizzled, death and disease McCoy in what might be civvies. Kirk in black.

No idea if they are going to the E in picture 2. Picture 3 seems more likely.

Though 3 could be pre-academy.

Cadets in red in pics 1 & 2. Could be a cadet between Kirk and McCoy in 3.