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Old October 30 2008, 08:10 PM   #1
scotthm
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Another data point in the Global Warming saga

Just FYI...

The amount of methane in Earth's atmosphere shot up in 2007, bringing to an end a period of about a decade in which atmospheric levels of the potent greenhouse gas were essentially stable, according to a team led by MIT researchers.
. . .

One surprising feature of this recent growth is that it occurred almost simultaneously at all measurement locations across the globe. However, the majority of methane emissions are in the Northern Hemisphere, and it takes more than one year for gases to be mixed from the Northern Hemisphere to the Southern Hemisphere. Hence, theoretical analysis of the measurements shows that if an increase in emissions is solely responsible, these emissions must have risen by a similar amount in both hemispheres at the same time.

A rise in Northern Hemispheric emissions may be due to the very warm conditions that were observed over Siberia throughout 2007, potentially leading to increased bacterial emissions from wetland areas. However, a potential cause for an increase in Southern Hemispheric emissions is less clear.

. . .Given that, pound for pound, methane is 25 times more powerful as a greenhouse gas than carbon dioxide, the situation will require careful monitoring in the near future.
http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/2008/methane-tt1029.html

It makes one wonder just how much of this is natural and how much is Man made.

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Old October 30 2008, 09:00 PM   #2
Alpha_Geek
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Re: Another data point in the Global Warming saga

Water vapor is a very powerful "greenhouse gas" yet nobody talks about it much.

Why is that?


Source: http://www.geocraft.com/WVFossils/greenhouse_data.html
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Old October 30 2008, 09:29 PM   #3
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Re: Another data point in the Global Warming saga

Water Vapor is a powerful green house gas. When in low concentrations in the air it acts as a greenhouse gas, when it builds high enough it forms reflective clouds which bounce energy back into space cooling things off. It is self regulating.

I don't give a shit about a little more methane of co2, it is nothing to the contribution water makes to makign this planet bearable.
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Old October 30 2008, 09:35 PM   #4
Alpha_Geek
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Re: Another data point in the Global Warming saga

That's my point, Meredith. Everybody that talks about global warming never talks about water vapor, which is the most influential gas that contributes to "global warming" yet the vast majority of it in our atmosphere is due to natural causes.

The synthetic contribution is miniscule.

Welcome to the changing climate of planet Earth, where fossilized sand dollars can be found in the limestone of central Florida, and fossilized dinosaurs dug up in the polar climes.

To coin a phrase, "All of this has happened before, and it will happen again."

AG
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Old November 2 2008, 09:47 PM   #5
3D Master
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Re: Another data point in the Global Warming saga

And then everyone is going how driving cars on hydrogen is going to solve global warming; even the so-called global warming exports.

Yep, several billion cars pumping water into atmosphere, that's really going to solve Global Warming. More like CAUSE it.
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Old November 3 2008, 05:17 AM   #6
Lindley
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Re: Another data point in the Global Warming saga

In other news, an engineer working on methane detectors worldwide quietly corrected a bug this year without telling anyone.

Probably.
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Old November 3 2008, 07:55 AM   #7
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Re: Another data point in the Global Warming saga

3D Master wrote: View Post
And then everyone is going how driving cars on hydrogen is going to solve global warming; even the so-called global warming exports.

Yep, several billion cars pumping water into atmosphere, that's really going to solve Global Warming. More like CAUSE it.
Modern day cars contain water as part of their exhaust already. The amount is nearly the same as a hydrogen engine according to the US department of energy.
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Old November 3 2008, 10:54 AM   #8
3D Master
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Re: Another data point in the Global Warming saga

Arrghman wrote: View Post
3D Master wrote: View Post
And then everyone is going how driving cars on hydrogen is going to solve global warming; even the so-called global warming exports.

Yep, several billion cars pumping water into atmosphere, that's really going to solve Global Warming. More like CAUSE it.
Modern day cars contain water as part of their exhaust already. The amount is nearly the same as a hydrogen engine according to the US department of energy.
Do note the assumption they made to get there: hydrogen gets more than twice the mileage. If that's not so...
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Old November 3 2008, 06:07 PM   #9
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Re: Another data point in the Global Warming saga

3D Master wrote: View Post
Do note the assumption they made to get there: hydrogen gets more than twice the mileage. If that's not so...
And the number they used is inside of the projected fuel efficiency of fuel cell powered cars. Check out some of these cars: some of them have an mpgge better then the one used by the DOE, some worse but neither by a significant margin. The number they used is clearly a good baseline average.

I don't know if hydrogen based cars are the best solution or not; I do know that your claim that they will be pumping significantly more water into the atmosphere is incorrect.
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Old November 3 2008, 09:17 PM   #10
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Re: Another data point in the Global Warming saga

...maybe in another 30 years this business will cycle again and we'll be worried about the "coming ice age."
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Old November 3 2008, 10:44 PM   #11
Meredith
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Re: Another data point in the Global Warming saga

We should build huge solar power satellites and put them between the earth and the sun so they can help cool the planet and help generate power that is beamed down to earth via microwaves.

The microwave antennas could be build over farmland with no effect on the land below only huge power line structures in a grid pattern overhead.

Maybe make a huge ass computer linked to weather control satellites that could then manipulate the weather on earth and turn billions of acres of desert into lush green farmland.
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Old November 4 2008, 05:34 AM   #12
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Re: Another data point in the Global Warming saga

Meredith wrote: View Post
We should build huge solar power satellites and put them between the earth and the sun so they can help cool the planet and help generate power that is beamed down to earth via microwaves.

The microwave antennas could be build over farmland with no effect on the land below only huge power line structures in a grid pattern overhead.

Maybe make a huge ass computer linked to weather control satellites that could then manipulate the weather on earth and turn billions of acres of desert into lush green farmland.
Why waste the effort? We're going to space, it should be a concentrated effort to get off this planet.

Solar panels on the ground, will eliminate our need for fossil fuels within the next decade. Germany is already generating 20% power through renewable sources, most of it solar. Solar is undergoing an industrial revolution; technology allows them to build ever bigger, more efficient, and cheaper solar panels.

Every half hour, the Earth is bombarded with enough solar energy to power us an entire year.

There is no need to cool the planet; the middle ages were hotter by several degrees than we are. All those doom's day scenarios if Earth gets so much hotter? The middle ages were hotter even than that, and no doomsday happened then.
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Old November 4 2008, 07:25 PM   #13
Meredith
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Re: Another data point in the Global Warming saga

3D Master wrote: View Post
Meredith wrote: View Post
We should build huge solar power satellites and put them between the earth and the sun so they can help cool the planet and help generate power that is beamed down to earth via microwaves.

The microwave antennas could be build over farmland with no effect on the land below only huge power line structures in a grid pattern overhead.

Maybe make a huge ass computer linked to weather control satellites that could then manipulate the weather on earth and turn billions of acres of desert into lush green farmland.
Why waste the effort? We're going to space, it should be a concentrated effort to get off this planet.

Solar panels on the ground, will eliminate our need for fossil fuels within the next decade. Germany is already generating 20% power through renewable sources, most of it solar. Solar is undergoing an industrial revolution; technology allows them to build ever bigger, more efficient, and cheaper solar panels.

Every half hour, the Earth is bombarded with enough solar energy to power us an entire year.

There is no need to cool the planet; the middle ages were hotter by several degrees than we are. All those doom's day scenarios if Earth gets so much hotter? The middle ages were hotter even than that, and no doomsday happened then.
The ultimate ebnvironmental goal would be to move all humans into space to live in cool rotating space colonies
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Old November 4 2008, 11:08 PM   #14
3D Master
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Re: Another data point in the Global Warming saga

No, we go to space because we're not safe living on one planet in just one solar system. Too many things that can wipe us out in one go.
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Old November 6 2008, 05:02 PM   #15
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Re: Another data point in the Global Warming saga

This positive feedback mechanism was predicted by many computer models. This is is so-called natural process, it's natural according to some Bush lackies but when reality bites it might not be so natural.
Have mankind dump a few hundred thousand tonnes of a Greenhouse gas like CO2 into the air, planet warms a little but then thanks to pollution - the Canadian and Russian Tundra start to melt...and WHAMO the Methane(CH4) gets out, it spends a decade in the atmosphere and is 19 times more powerful than carbon dioxide.
Methane = Global Warming on Steroids
Ok some ask
Why take it handy on water(H20)?
"OMG you ignore the waters and are biased to CO2 and now YOU HIPPIES SUX"
Well although there is much water(H20) in the atmosphere, its recycling process is much faster. Yes our planet has way more Water than Methane but its path going from the glaciers, to the oceans, to the clouds and rain back to the glaciers/seas can be measured in hours while a nasty global warming on steroids gas like CH4 can remain suspended as a nasty IR absorber will stay in action for 10 years!! Moisture or water vapor, the absorber of IR radiation spends only a short time in the atmosphere before being precipitated out. Whereas the life time of Methane in the atmosphere may be longer than 10 years and for CO2 pollution we have to live with it for a century.

Staying with the news

Arctic sea ice thinning at record rate
http://www.esa.int/esaCP/SEMTGPRTKMF_index_0.html

Anyhow as Meredith says it we all enjoy a little global warming, our IR absorbing atmosphere is what stops our planet from being DeadCold.
What gets it wrong is when we set ourselves on a path to overdose on greenhouse gasses from an unnatural man made process. With this kind of direction expect more drought from heatwaves, and maybe say goodbye to Florida and the Gulf Coast as sea levels rise and large parts of Asia, Europe start saying hello to the Ocean.

Last edited by TheMasterOfOrion; November 6 2008 at 05:15 PM.
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