The Dark Reign Begins... SPOILERS!

[CaptainCanada]

Eh, the main issue was middling; the premise itself has some promise, but I don't think especially under Bendis. But I can't wait to see what, say, Pak and VL do with it on Incredible Herc:



As Hera consolidates her takeover of Olympus, marking Hercules and Athena for death, she reaches out to forge an alliance with the greatest mortal power on the planet -- NORMAN OSBORN! With the forces of Heaven and Earth both arrayed against our heroes, how can they possibly survive? And what role does the ex-New Warrior AEGIS play in Hera's mad scheme?

I love this book so, so, so much.

Also, the Masters of Evil aren't a ripoff of the Legion of Doom; they predate the Legion by a decade at least.

[grabmygoblin]

Hermiod wrote:

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Bendis does need to have a word with Alex Maleev about that one, sure.

that was a glaring "WTF"...

[Hermiod]

grabmygoblin wrote:

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that was a glaring "WTF"...

Not quite there, is it ?

[Ultimale]

"Dark Reign"--does this refer to Joe Quesada's time as EIC?

[EnderAKH]

darkwing_duck1 wrote:

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The whole insane "let's make the 616 continuity a carbon copy of the Ultimate-verse" mentality that Joey has. Jemas started the whole "dark universe" thing and Joey has followed right along with it.

Look at his numerous public statements about how Spider-Man should not be married (and he broke THAT up). How Captain America was "no longer relevant" (so he had him shot and replaced with "Captain FAKEerica", who uses a frakkin GUN, of all things. How he ruined New Warriors JUST to kick off this cokkamaime "Civil War" (remember when it was just the nutjobs like Gyrich who were calling for metas to line up for their "number"?)

The continuity ban. "No more mutants!" Avengers Disassembled. The war against Spider-Girl (5 times he cancelled the book, only to be overriden thanks to the fanbase!). Thunderbolts as metahuman Gestapo...in just under 5 years the "nu regime" has systematically OBLITERATED a rich, well written, well defined universe of 50 years standing and replaced it with "KewL, EDgee & relEVunt" Coffee Shop comics.

All in the name of "a new audience" that has NEVER materialized in sufficient numbers to offset the loss of life-long comics readers who kept Marvel going all those years...

I would like to hear what problems you have with THIS BOOK, you know, the topic, rather than the whole Marvel Universe.

Oh yes, lets also not forget "Wolverine must be in EVERY book, 'cuz he sells." Never mind if he doesn't BELONG in that book...

Incidentally, Wolverine was pulled from all the X-Men books except Astonishing 2 or 3 years ago, then was in Astonishing X-Men, New Avengers and his solo title(s). That's a much different kettle of fish than when he was on literally every X-team and in every X-book.

[darkwing_duck1]

Hermiod wrote:

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I don't read anything from the Ultimate universe except The Ultimates, which is nothing like anything I see in the 616.

Let's see:

Dark, facisit dystopia vis a vis metahumans? Check
Anti-hero versions of classic 616 characters? Check
Metahuman Gestapo? Check

Nah...no similarities whatsoever...

Brand New Day has had its positive side as well. No more reliance on the same old villains, for a start.

Matter of opinion

[re death of Captain America]
And we got one of the best comic book stories ever written out of it.

They took the singlemost example of Marvel moral integrity and heroic virtue and turned him into a gun weilding thug (just like Ulti Cap).

The concept of a Superhuman Registration Act is hardly new.

Except it has always been portrayed as a hateful tool of the anti-meta bigots, and rightly so.

You mean the one where Bendis was allowed to insert hints and clues about Secret Invasion in multiple titles going back years ? Or the New Avengers: Illuminati mini-series ? There's no continuity ban that I can see. Pick up an X-Men title, if anything there's too much continuity there.

Try mentioning anything that happened pre-2000 or so and see how far you get.

Avengers Disassembled was necessary. It was necessary to make the Avengers important again after the X-Men had stolen all of their thunder.

edGY, KeWL, and releVUNt...gotcha

Nobody cares about the MC2 universe anyway.

Tell that to the fanbase that saved the book FIVE times. It was the last vestige of the Marvel comics we knew and loved for 50 years. Now it's gone too, DESPITE our best efforts, it seems.

Joey "the Butcher" Q has for many years stated he disliked the book and did everything he could to kill it.

Never mind that DeFalco is a far superior writer and would make a 1 MILLION % better EIC than Joey could ever DREAM of being.

No, his writers have brought it in to the 21st century. Marvel's been crying out for people like Bendis, JMS, Dan Slott, Mark Millar, Ed Brubaker and co for years.

No, the "coffee shop comics" crowd has been crying out for them. Look at Marvel's sales in the 90s vs today and tell me with a straight face that "Marvel is crying out for Bendis, et al"

I can't speak for anyone else, but they lost me in the 80's and they got me back in 2001.

Then you're one of the relatively few people who apparently IS the market for this sort of thing...

I can't disagree with that.

Well, at least we agree on SOMETHING...

[darkwing_duck1]

Ultimale wrote:

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"Dark Reign"--does this refer to Joe Quesada's time as EIC?

Add in Jemas before him and you pretty much got it!

[CaptainCanada]

darkwing_duck1 wrote:

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They took the singlemost example of Marvel moral integrity and heroic virtue and turned him into a gun weilding thug (just like Ulti Cap).

That's totally wrong. New Cap is nothing like Ultimate Cap (who certainly is a thug, though I don't think he has a gun); he's depicted as thoughtful and determined to play by Steve's rules and moral code.

Tell that to the fanbase that saved the book FIVE times. It was the last vestige of the Marvel comics we knew and loved for 50 years. Now it's gone too, DESPITE our best efforts, it seems.

Joey "the Butcher" Q has for many years stated he disliked the book and did everything he could to kill it.

Never mind that DeFalco is a far superior writer and would make a 1 MILLION % better EIC than Joey could ever DREAM of being.

Spider-Girl was a strong cult book for a long time (Marvel's longest-running female solo title by a wide margin, I believe), but it's sales were generally very bad (though very consistent, which is a virtue in sales). It's not surprising that it eventually ended, given it usually sells under 20K; there's no currently running Marvel book (outside the "Marvel Adventures" line, which isn't targeted in the single-issue market) that sells like that.

[Thrall]

Hardly.

Oh, right. Forgot about them. They suck too.

Mansion Bicycle ? She went after Scott and she got him. That's it.

She took advantage of a mentally weak and fucked up married man to piss off his wife. What a hero. She's so cool and tragic and interesting. Glad to see that my belief that you have to check your brain and your moral standards at the door to be a NuMarvel fan is validated yet again.

The only person sleeping around in Marvel Comics these days is Clint Barton.

"I never miss!"

[Admiral_Young]

I personally have liked the direction that the Marvel Universe in general has been going towards over the last four or five years. With a few minor things that have bothered me, like Osborn having getting Gwen Stacey pregnant, Joe Q fucking up Spider-Man's (I must admit that I haven't really been following Brand New Day but I plan to pick up the first couple of trades when they reach my library) marriage, Tony Stark's rise and fall, the Skrull infiltration and invasion, the Civil War, and rise of Norman Osborn to Lex Luthor levels have been really interesting to me. Secret Invasion has been way better and held my interest way more than Final Crisis...and also on the Ultimate Universe, it seems they are getting ready to shake it up again after Ultimatium is over. I had no idea Ultimate X-Men was ending with #100...I knew they were planning to can a couple of books and introducing new ones.

[Mike Farley]

EnderAKH wrote:

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Incidentally, Wolverine was pulled from all the X-Men books except Astonishing 2 or 3 years ago, then was in Astonishing X-Men, New Avengers and his solo title(s). That's a much different kettle of fish than when he was on literally every X-team and in every X-book.

Wolverine is currently featured in: Astonishing X-Men, Uncanny X-Men, X-Force, New Avengers, Wolverine, Wolverine: Origins, Wolverine: First Class, and starting in April he's getting a FOURTH ongoing monthly: Wolverine: Weapon X. Oh and there is the currently running Wolverine: Manifest Destiny miniseries.

So eight titles. Plus any random guest appearances. He wasn't even that overexposed in the height of the 90's speculator boom.

Plus every X-Men movie has actually been a Wolverine movie guest starring the X-Men.

[DarthPipes]

I liked the old Captain America just fine. But the best thing to happen to that series was Steve Rogers death and the emergence of Bucky as the new Cap. It turned that comic into one of the best around. Bucky as Captain America is definitely not a gun-wielding thug.

Brand New Day was idiotic. If Joe Q really wanted to end the Peter/MJ marriage, he should have had the guts to just do it instead of wiping out twenty years of stories with that ridiculous Memphisto storyline and Peter sacrificing his marriage to save his two-hundred-year-old aunt.

[CaptainCanada]

DarthPipes wrote:

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I liked the old Captain America just fine. But the best thing to happen to that series was Steve Rogers death and the emergence of Bucky as the new Cap. It turned that comic into one of the best around. Bucky as Captain America is definitely not a gun-wielding thug.

Well, it was already the best comic around at that point, I think (though at the moment I'd rate Incredible Herc as being better, since CA has been in a bit of a lull).

[Turtletrekker]

Hermiod wrote:

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Nobody cares about the MC2 universe anyway.

Well, then I guess you can just call me "nobody", as the MC2 books have been by far my favorite in recent years.

[RJDiogenes]

darkwing_duck1 wrote:

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in just under 5 years the "nu regime" has systematically OBLITERATED a rich, well written, well defined universe of 50 years standing and replaced it with "KewL, EDgee & relEVunt" Coffee Shop comics.

I have to agree with this. It's getting tough to choose between nuBSG, nuMarvel and Miller's All-Star Batman as being emblematic of how the 80s D&G fad has reached its nadir.

Hermiod wrote:

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Nobody cares about the MC2 universe anyway.

Hey!