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Old December 17 2008, 01:53 PM   #1
JediKnightButler
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Star Wars: Clone Wars 1 X 10: "Lair of General Grievous" (SPOILERS!!!)

Having failed to see any threads regarding the latest episode of Clone Wars, I thought I'd start one (sorry, no poll this time).
I thought that it was another good installment of the series which broadened the storyline and characters a bit, specifically General Greivous, and Kit Fisto, a Jedi character we saw only briefly during the last two movies (and the Clone Wars "microseries") but who, like so many others, was never given a voice or characterization. It was also neat to see a Mon Cal Jedi.
The most interesting aspects of the episode to me were the tension shown between Grievous and Dooku (apparently, we're NOT the only ones concerned about Grievous' many failures so far), as well as how some of the "modern" Jedi seem to be changing for the worse (becoming more arrogant-as alluded to in Episode II by Yoda).
As for the actual plotline, it picks up following the previous storyline of the Jedi, led by Kit Fisto, trying to recapture Nute Gunray who, of course, escaped from Republic custody during the previous episode. They follow the cruiser's shuttle beacon right into Greivous' lair where they discover that the beacon was a ruse and Dooku springs his trap/test on both the Jedi Kit Fisto and his former padawan, as well as Greivous. From the very outset I pretty much figured that Nadar (the Mon Cal Jedi) was probably going to fall to Greivous. It was foolish of him to think that he could take Grievous (alone) but, as Kit Fisto correctly points out the war may be changing the Jedi Order, particularly the younger ones, irrevocably for the worst. Grievous doesn't get off the hook particularly easy, however, getting seriously damaged by the Jedi and their clones during their first encounter before striking back and even in the end he fails to substantially impress Dooku with his kills of Nadar and the clones. It will be interesting to see how this affects Grievous' efforts against the Jedi in future episodes.

Other thoughts or opinions?
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Old December 17 2008, 01:59 PM   #2
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Re: Star Wars: Clone Wars 1 X 10: "Lair of General Grievous" (SPOILERS

I think Grievous impressed Dooku enough to save his own hide and status as a Separatist general. He did kill one Jedi and drive another into retreat. Dooku said "So there is room for improvement," which is different from declaring Grievous a failure.

It was interesting to get glimpses of the pre-cyborg form of Grievous. And it was kind of cool to see an episode that was almost devoid of human faces. It's easier to buy into the character animation when the characters aren't human, because the credibility threshold isn't as high.

But the thing I liked most was the voice work. Phil LaMarr did a good job as Fisto -- basically doing Samurai Jack with Hermes Conrad's accent, but it worked, making Fisto a strong and appealing character. And Tom Kenny was effective as Nahdar. Sometimes I find Kenny's voice annoying (I can only take so much Spongebob, and I didn't care for his Penguin on The Batman), but sometimes he's pretty good.
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Old December 17 2008, 02:03 PM   #3
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Re: Star Wars: Clone Wars 1 X 10: "Lair of General Grievous" (SPOILERS

Christopher wrote: View Post
I think Grievous impressed Dooku enough to save his own hide and status as a Separatist general. He did kill one Jedi and drive another into retreat. Dooku said "So there is room for improvement," which is different from declaring Grievous a failure.
True, Grievous did ENOUGH to stay in Dooku (and I presume, Sidious') favor. We know, of course, that he's never removed as General of the Droid army and Dooku and Sidious probably didn't have anybody else to replace him with anyway but it's good that the writers are at least acknowledging the fact that Grievous has messed up a lot so far. Maybe this is one of the reasons that he becomes even more brutal as the war drags on.
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Old December 17 2008, 03:06 PM   #4
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Re: Star Wars: Clone Wars 1 X 10: "Lair of General Grievous" (SPOILERS

I foresee Dooku promoting a rival to drive Grievous to greater depths, a way of thinking that of course, later on, costs him his own head.

Any fannish thoughts on Ahsuka's ultimate fate? Is this just an alternate timeline, wherein her loss is just part of what drives Anakin over, or is the loss perhaps so stinging that Ani's master-status is revoked and the loss never spoken of? I have one theory of my own, but fear drawing in the notice of a poster who uses the word 'fanwank' the way Carlin and Pryor used the other F-word.
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Old December 17 2008, 03:27 PM   #5
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Re: Star Wars: Clone Wars 1 X 10: "Lair of General Grievous" (SPOILERS

I swear I read somewhere that Seth Green was going to be doing the voice of Kit Fisto. But when I looked up Seth Green I didn't see anything for Clone Wars. Did I just imagine it? Another good episode. Nice reference to Grievous' origin.
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Old December 17 2008, 03:34 PM   #6
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Re: Star Wars: Clone Wars 1 X 10: "Lair of General Grievous" (SPOILERS

Mr Light wrote: View Post
I swear I read somewhere that Seth Green was going to be doing the voice of Kit Fisto.
What? oh no I hope not
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Old December 17 2008, 03:47 PM   #7
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Re: Star Wars: Clone Wars 1 X 10: "Lair of General Grievous" (SPOILERS

Gojirob wrote: View Post
Any fannish thoughts on Ahsuka's ultimate fate? Is this just an alternate timeline, wherein her loss is just part of what drives Anakin over, or is the loss perhaps so stinging that Ani's master-status is revoked and the loss never spoken of?
I don't think there's anything alternate about it. Anakin doesn't have the rank of Jedi Master; he's just Ahsoka's master--kinda like Trek ship COs being called "Captain" even if they don't have the actual rank of captain.

Wouldn't be surprised if Ahsoka's eventual loss contributes to Anakin getting darker and not wanting to talk about her, no.
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Old December 17 2008, 03:59 PM   #8
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Re: Star Wars: Clone Wars 1 X 10: "Lair of General Grievous" (SPOILERS

I wondered if anyone had even seen this one. The most character evolution Grievous has had thus far I would say. I thought the Jedi fell into the "trap" a little easily, but I found it interesting that they weren't the only prey, but for Grievous as well; A test of his continued viability to Dooku and Sidious.

That medical droid was pretty interesting. It seemed to have enough bolts to tell it to Grievous the way it is. It seemed pretty sinister when it was just sitting there cheering Grievous on as his evil events unfolded on the monitor. I wonder if there is some smart ass/maniacal sub routine programmed into those particular droids, as this was the same model found in Jabba's palace (ROTJ) that found pleasure as slave master to Jabba's droids and torturing helpless Gonk units.

I was looking forward to seeing Fisto in action, and I did like his character quite a bit, but the episode was mildly dissapointing compared to the previous week.
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Old December 17 2008, 04:07 PM   #9
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Re: Star Wars: Clone Wars 1 X 10: "Lair of General Grievous" (SPOILERS

Gojirob wrote: View Post
Any fannish thoughts on Ahsuka's ultimate fate?
Methinks she'll end up being the good guy jedi in the live action show. No way she gets killed off.

Anyways, this was an above average ep. It was good to see the bad guys win again, especially when Grievous killed that Mon Cal. he was a prick and deserved it. Fisto was portrayed pretty cool.... much better character development than the jedi knight of the week dame from last ep.

Here is what is really annoying me with this show though. The Mon Cal jedi knight goes up against Grievous and loses.... like he should. He's totally out of his league. However, Ahsoka, a half assed padawan, can go up against a dark jedi like it ain't no thing and live. give me a flippin break. She is waaaaaaaaaay too overpowered. This has happened a few times and it really takes away from the story.

Regardless, this show is infinitely better than I thought it would be. I hope the quality continues.
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Old December 17 2008, 04:16 PM   #10
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Re: Star Wars: Clone Wars 1 X 10: "Lair of General Grievous" (SPOILERS

Mr Light wrote: View Post
I swear I read somewhere that Seth Green was going to be doing the voice of Kit Fisto. But when I looked up Seth Green I didn't see anything for Clone Wars. Did I just imagine it?
I believe Wikipedia did claim it would be Green, but they must've been mistaken. Maybe he's doing another character on the show and somebody got their info confused.
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Old December 17 2008, 05:58 PM   #11
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Re: Star Wars: Clone Wars 1 X 10: "Lair of General Grievous" (SPOILERS

That's my thought on Green too.

I thought this was a good episode. Not as good as Cloak of Deception but another entertaining entry for the Clone Wars. I'm very glad they addressed Grievous's previous failures because in most cartoons, henchmen fail all the time with little in the way of reprecussions.

Definitely liked the status of Grievous in his humanoid form and his lair was pretty cool. Also liked his "pet" Gor and his snarky, ambigiously-gay medical droid. Amusing character I wasn't expecting.

The saber duels were top notch and I always liked the way Grievous was able to fight. Phil Lamarr did a good job with Fisto and his personality shown through.

My only problem is this episode could have used a little more time. The Mon Cal Jedi in particular...I guess we were supposed to be saddened by his death (Kit didn't look like he was particularly upset about it) but there wasn't enough time to flesh him out. By the time he got to Grievous's lair, he was already a complete hothead.

Looking forward to the January 2nd show called "Dooku Captured."
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Old December 17 2008, 11:18 PM   #12
JediKnightButler
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Re: Star Wars: Clone Wars 1 X 10: "Lair of General Grievous" (SPOILERS

[quote=flavaflav;2414556]
Gojirob wrote: View Post
Here is what is really annoying me with this show though. The Mon Cal jedi knight goes up against Grievous and loses.... like he should. He's totally out of his league. However, Ahsoka, a half assed padawan, can go up against a dark jedi like it ain't no thing and live. give me a flippin break. She is waaaaaaaaaay too overpowered. This has happened a few times and it really takes away from the story.
Not to mention the fact that she went up against Grievous (Duel of the Droids) and managed to hold her own against him. I half expected to see HER die in that episode but then again it is too early in the series for something like that to happen. I strongly suspect that, one way or another, she will, unfortunately not survive the series.
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Old December 18 2008, 12:10 AM   #13
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Re: Star Wars: Clone Wars 1 X 10: "Lair of General Grievous" (SPOILERS

Actually, according to the official recap, Ahsoka survived against Grievous mainly by retreating and hiding. Once he found her, she was losing to Grievous and he had her at his mercy, but then an explosion distracted him while he was gloating, and she was able to escape. Otherwise she would've died. In this case, Nahdar's line of retreat was cut off, and his overconfidence made him too eager to confront Grievous anyway. So there's no evidence that Ahsoka is being portrayed as more powerful or capable than Nahdar. Just luckier and more willing to retreat to fight another day.
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Old December 18 2008, 02:36 AM   #14
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Re: Star Wars: Clone Wars 1 X 10: "Lair of General Grievous" (SPOILERS

flavaflav wrote: View Post
Here is what is really annoying me with this show though. The Mon Cal jedi knight goes up against Grievous and loses.... like he should. He's totally out of his league. However, Ahsoka, a half assed padawan, can go up against a dark jedi like it ain't no thing and live. give me a flippin break. She is waaaaaaaaaay too overpowered. This has happened a few times and it really takes away from the story.
butlerd wrote: View Post
Not to mention the fact that she went up against Grievous (Duel of the Droids) and managed to hold her own against him. I half expected to see HER die in that episode but then again it is too early in the series for something like that to happen. I strongly suspect that, one way or another, she will, unfortunately not survive the series.
Ahsoka doesn't survive because she's overpowered. She survives because she's smart. So far in this series she's faced off against Ventress twice (though never alone) and Grievous once, and each time she's been smart enough to know when she was beaten and got the hell out. She's fast and agile, but overly powerful? I don't think so.

Plus she's the star of the show, so of course she's hot stuff.
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