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Voyager There's coffee in this forum!

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Old December 18 2008, 05:14 PM   #61
Ezri II
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Re: "Fury" Kes, a Mirror Kes?

kimc wrote: View Post
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I didn't realize that Neelix and Kes's relationship could be seen as unseemly until sometime after the whole series was done, and I could see that Kes was really a child when Neelix met her.
Kes was as young adult by Ocampan standards. Yes there was a wide range in age/experience between her and Neelix which is why the relationship didn't last but Kes was not a child.
Not a childs body, but a childs mind when Neelix did meet her.
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Old December 18 2008, 05:16 PM   #62
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Re: "Fury" Kes, a Mirror Kes?

Ezri II wrote: View Post
kimc wrote: View Post
Jeri wrote: View Post
I didn't realize that Neelix and Kes's relationship could be seen as unseemly until sometime after the whole series was done, and I could see that Kes was really a child when Neelix met her.
Kes was as young adult by Ocampan standards. Yes there was a wide range in age/experience between her and Neelix which is why the relationship didn't last but Kes was not a child.
Not a childs body, but a childs mind when Neelix did meet her.
You're thinking in human, not Ocampan terms.
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Old December 18 2008, 05:22 PM   #63
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Re: "Fury" Kes, a Mirror Kes?

kimc wrote: View Post
Ezri II wrote: View Post
kimc wrote: View Post

Kes was as young adult by Ocampan standards. Yes there was a wide range in age/experience between her and Neelix which is why the relationship didn't last but Kes was not a child.
Not a childs body, but a childs mind when Neelix did meet her.
You're thinking in human, not Ocampan terms.
With Kes and Neelix, and the whole of the crew of Voyager. Who on that crew would you say had the most simple understanding of life and there role with society.

Kes was on the ship, was it her freewill to stay on Voyager or was it Neelix? Kes was granted some rights on Voyager, but they were moderated at a level of a passive teenager. Janeway mothered Kes, Janeway was the captain with the rest of the crew. Now ask, who was more like a child during the time Kes and Neelix had their first meeting.
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Old December 18 2008, 05:24 PM   #64
exodus
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Re: "Fury" Kes, a Mirror Kes?

Ezri II wrote: View Post
kimc wrote: View Post
Jeri wrote: View Post
I didn't realize that Neelix and Kes's relationship could be seen as unseemly until sometime after the whole series was done, and I could see that Kes was really a child when Neelix met her.
Kes was as young adult by Ocampan standards. Yes there was a wide range in age/experience between her and Neelix which is why the relationship didn't last but Kes was not a child.
Not a childs body, but a childs mind when Neelix did meet her.
Nope, they did explain a few times that an Ocampians mind matures at a much faster rate than a regular humans. It would have to concidering they live way, way less that any humanoids life time.
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Old December 18 2008, 05:29 PM   #65
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Re: "Fury" Kes, a Mirror Kes?

Did Kes actually say at one point that she had been a child? I seem to remember her saying something like that.
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Old December 18 2008, 05:31 PM   #66
exodus
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Re: "Fury" Kes, a Mirror Kes?

Ezri II wrote: View Post
kimc wrote: View Post
Ezri II wrote: View Post

Not a childs body, but a childs mind when Neelix did meet her.
You're thinking in human, not Ocampan terms.
With Kes and Neelix, and the whole of the crew of Voyager. Who on that crew would you say had the most simple understanding of life and there role with society.

Kes was on the ship, was it her freewill to stay on Voyager or was it Neelix? Kes was granted some rights on Voyager, but they were moderated at a level of a passive teenager. Janeway mothered Kes, Janeway was the captain with the rest of the crew. Now ask, who was more like a child during the time Kes and Neelix had their first meeting.
Neelix was.

Neelix was planning on taking off after saving Kes. It was Kes who maturely suggested it would be wrong to not return the favor and help the Voyager crew.
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Old December 18 2008, 05:46 PM   #67
kimc
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Re: "Fury" Kes, a Mirror Kes?

Jeri wrote: View Post
Did Kes actually say at one point that she had been a child? I seem to remember her saying something like that.
I remember a scene where she referred to herself as young with a lot more to see and learn. The same can be said for any young adult. I don't recall her referring to herself as a child though.
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Old December 18 2008, 05:51 PM   #68
exodus
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Re: "Fury" Kes, a Mirror Kes?

kimc wrote: View Post
Jeri wrote: View Post
Did Kes actually say at one point that she had been a child? I seem to remember her saying something like that.
I remember a scene where she referred to herself as young with a lot more to see and learn. The same can be said for any young adult. I don't recall her referring to herself as a child though.
No need, we saw what "child Kes" looked like in "Before & After".(remember her on Ocampa w/ her father in the garden)
So even by Ocampian standards she was a young lady when Voyager saves her, not a "child".
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Old December 18 2008, 06:02 PM   #69
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Re: "Fury" Kes, a Mirror Kes?

Why, the whole ep is open to parody : http://www.southroad.com/brightfame/...syourname.html
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Old December 18 2008, 06:48 PM   #70
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Re: "Fury" Kes, a Mirror Kes?

Well, ok, if you all say so.
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Old December 19 2008, 12:24 AM   #71
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Re: "Fury" Kes, a Mirror Kes?

And don't forget she was capable of becoming a mother. Hardly a child.

Saying you still have a lot to learn is humility, not childishness.
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Old December 19 2008, 12:40 AM   #72
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Re: "Fury" Kes, a Mirror Kes?

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And don't forget she was capable of becoming a mother. Hardly a child.

Saying you still have a lot to learn is humility, not childishness.
REALLY !!!
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Old December 19 2008, 01:29 AM   #73
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Re: "Fury" Kes, a Mirror Kes?

teacake wrote: View Post
And don't forget she was capable of becoming a mother. Hardly a child.
She wasn't capable of having children until she was 4 or 5, the Elogium was premature remember.

I guess Kes was a pre-teen.
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Old December 19 2008, 01:39 AM   #74
Ezri II
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Re: "Fury" Kes, a Mirror Kes?

exodus wrote: View Post
teacake wrote: View Post
And don't forget she was capable of becoming a mother. Hardly a child.
She wasn't capable of having children until she was 4 or 5, the Elogium was premature remember.

I guess Kes was a pre-teen.
Pre-teen is under 13!! That would have made her the youngest member on Voyager. Darn, when WESTLEY CRUSHER was a pre-teen on Enterprise Picard said *NO CHILDREN ON THE BRIDGE*
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Old December 19 2008, 01:46 AM   #75
exodus
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Re: "Fury" Kes, a Mirror Kes?

Ezri II wrote: View Post
exodus wrote: View Post
teacake wrote: View Post
And don't forget she was capable of becoming a mother. Hardly a child.
She wasn't capable of having children until she was 4 or 5, the Elogium was premature remember.

I guess Kes was a pre-teen.
Pre-teen is under 13!! That would have made her the youngest member on Voyager. Darn, when WESTLEY CRUSHER was a pre-teen on Enterprise Picard said *NO CHILDREN ON THE BRIDGE*
Do you count Niomi Wildman or only main cast members?
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