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Old January 5 2009, 04:53 AM   #91
ancient
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Re: If You Could Re-Imagine the Constitution-Class Refit...

CuttingEdge100 wrote: View Post
ancient,
I just mean rectangles and circles. In a seemingly random pattern.
Oh you mean the TMP design. From what I remember there were rectangular windows and then two smaller circular windows on the ends.

That is not random.
Huh? No, I'm talking about the TOS ship. I don't understand your confusion. The TOS rim windows are pretty random collections of circles and squares with no real pattern.

By it's nature, making the ship slightly bigger makes it easier to get all the components in there without having to comprimise as much - like having a half-deck at the saucer rim. That seems so...strange to me.
I see what you mean.

I'm not entirely sure exactly which to settle on though.

-On one hand I was told the Enterprise model was originally to be 540 feet and was then doubled in size which would confirm 1,080.

-On the other hand Matt Jeffries stated outright that the ship was 947 feet, and according to Mr. Shaw, the markings on the hull which were used by a fan to confirm the 1,080 feet length only apparently counted if the engineering hull had the dome on the front as in the earliest of Matt Jeffries' sketches.
Yes, well, considering the number of slightly different sketches MJ did, and the fact that the diagram marked as '947 feet' was proportioned differently than the 11 foot model, I tend to just make the ship whatever logical length/size I please.

I tend to follow the 11 foot series model. Not The 3 ft model, which was somewhat different, and not the MJ diagrams, which were, again, somewhat different. This is a personal choice. Others like the 3-footer/MJ drawing/pilot version better.

Heck, some people like the FJ version best, which is also shaped slightly differently than the rest.

Different tastes. I like the dynamic look of the TOS nacelles. The swirling energy of the bussards looks more powerful and exciting than the static blue grill.
Blue grill? The grille was black if I recall unless you mean blue as in "blue steel" or something.
I was talking about the inner side grills, of course. The art deco front-ends, were another element I would rather not have.
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Old January 5 2009, 03:54 PM   #92
Cary L. Brown
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Re: If You Could Re-Imagine the Constitution-Class Refit...

[quote=ancient;2468459]
Different tastes. I like the dynamic look of the TOS nacelles. The swirling energy of the bussards looks more powerful and exciting than the static blue grill.
Blue grill? The grille was black if I recall unless you mean blue as in "blue steel" or something.
I was talking about the inner side grills, of course. The art deco front-ends, were another element I would rather not have.
Actually, in TMP, the colors were never "bright primary colors" like TNG gave us. In my favorite image of the TMP ship (a high-resolution poster giving a SPECTACULAR view of the ship from aft-port, below) the lighting on the nacelle inner grills was actually PINK...
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Old January 5 2009, 10:51 PM   #93
CuttingEdge100
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Re: If You Could Re-Imagine the Constitution-Class Refit...

Cary L. Brown,

Yeah depends on the angle you look at the grilles at. From the top they're purplish, from the front/bottom they're pinkish purple, from level they're blue
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Old January 5 2009, 11:57 PM   #94
Cary L. Brown
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Re: If You Could Re-Imagine the Constitution-Class Refit...

CuttingEdge100 wrote: View Post
Cary L. Brown,

Yeah depends on the angle you look at the grilles at. From the top they're purplish, from the front/bottom they're pinkish purple, from level they're blue
Did you know the reason for that? This is anecdotal... ie, I can't give a source, I just remember reading it SOMEPLACE. But I'm confident, even if I'm not able to provide my source, that the source was legit.

There's a die used in inspection of aluminum castings which is purple in color. The inboard and outboard grills of the nacelles were made from machined aluminum, and were treated with this. I believe that the "slot fill" clear material (probably plexiglass) was in-place at the time, and the whole thing was coated, internally, with this inspection dye.

Here's a source to look up the actual process I'm referring to.
http://www.engdev.co.uk/dye-penetrant.htm
or
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dye_penetrant_inspection

And in this one, you can actually see the color of the dye in image #5.
http://www.custompistols.com/cars/ar...inspection.htm
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Old January 7 2009, 03:22 AM   #95
CuttingEdge100
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Re: If You Could Re-Imagine the Constitution-Class Refit...

What color would they they haven chosen if it wasn't for this dye?
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Old January 8 2009, 12:12 PM   #96
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Re: If You Could Re-Imagine the Constitution-Class Refit...

Here's something I've been working on.
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Old January 8 2009, 06:46 PM   #97
CuttingEdge100
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Re: If You Could Re-Imagine the Constitution-Class Refit...

I'm wondering if it's only me or does it looks like JJ Abrams, when he Re-Imagined the Enterprise somehow took every single bad characteristic of the TOS and TMP Enterprises then accentuated them as much as he could physically, then warped, bent, and distorted various design characteristics into curvier shapes only for the sake of being curvier under the impression that if it's curvier it automatically is better?
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Old January 8 2009, 09:22 PM   #98
Cary L. Brown
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Re: If You Could Re-Imagine the Constitution-Class Refit...

CuttingEdge100 wrote: View Post
I'm wondering if it's only me or does it looks like JJ Abrams, when he Re-Imagined the Enterprise somehow took every single bad characteristic of the TOS and TMP Enterprises then accentuated them as much as he could physically, then warped, bent, and distorted various design characteristics into curvier shapes only for the sake of being curvier under the impression that if it's curvier it automatically is better?
While I would hesitate to claim that it was INTENTIONAL, I'd have to agree that, whatever the intention, that's how it comes across to me.

I just think that everyone has their own strengths, and their own weaknesses. And problems come up when someone who has strengths in one area but not in another ends up in a situation of authority, where they are able to exercise power over both areas.

This movie may well end up being very well-acted and very entertaining, and may even fit (if you ignore the visual) with the Star Trek we all know (alternative timelines and the potential for a "reset button").

It's really only the visual design, so far, that makes me wanna retch.
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Old January 9 2009, 12:39 AM   #99
darkwing_duck1
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Re: If You Could Re-Imagine the Constitution-Class Refit...

Cary L. Brown wrote: View Post
CuttingEdge100 wrote: View Post
I'm wondering if it's only me or does it looks like JJ Abrams, when he Re-Imagined the Enterprise somehow took every single bad characteristic of the TOS and TMP Enterprises then accentuated them as much as he could physically, then warped, bent, and distorted various design characteristics into curvier shapes only for the sake of being curvier under the impression that if it's curvier it automatically is better?
While I would hesitate to claim that it was INTENTIONAL, I'd have to agree that, whatever the intention, that's how it comes across to me.

I just think that everyone has their own strengths, and their own weaknesses. And problems come up when someone who has strengths in one area but not in another ends up in a situation of authority, where they are able to exercise power over both areas.

This movie may well end up being very well-acted and very entertaining, and may even fit (if you ignore the visual) with the Star Trek we all know (alternative timelines and the potential for a "reset button").

It's really only the visual design, so far, that makes me wanna retch.
To establish my bona fides, let me state that I would have been perfectly happy with a 99.9% recreation of the original ship, sets, etc. IAMD established conclusively that they all would work just fine.

That said, I think hyperbole like the above is counterproductive.
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Old January 9 2009, 12:59 AM   #100
Cary L. Brown
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Location: Austin, Texas
Re: If You Could Re-Imagine the Constitution-Class Refit...

darkwing_duck1 wrote: View Post
Cary L. Brown wrote: View Post
CuttingEdge100 wrote: View Post
I'm wondering if it's only me or does it looks like JJ Abrams, when he Re-Imagined the Enterprise somehow took every single bad characteristic of the TOS and TMP Enterprises then accentuated them as much as he could physically, then warped, bent, and distorted various design characteristics into curvier shapes only for the sake of being curvier under the impression that if it's curvier it automatically is better?
While I would hesitate to claim that it was INTENTIONAL, I'd have to agree that, whatever the intention, that's how it comes across to me.

I just think that everyone has their own strengths, and their own weaknesses. And problems come up when someone who has strengths in one area but not in another ends up in a situation of authority, where they are able to exercise power over both areas.

This movie may well end up being very well-acted and very entertaining, and may even fit (if you ignore the visual) with the Star Trek we all know (alternative timelines and the potential for a "reset button").

It's really only the visual design, so far, that makes me wanna retch.
To establish my bona fides, let me state that I would have been perfectly happy with a 99.9% recreation of the original ship, sets, etc. IAMD established conclusively that they all would work just fine.

That said, I think hyperbole like the above is counterproductive.
Oh, c'mon now... you're criticising me for "hyperbole" for a post where I say that, as far as we know, the movie itself may be fine and the only drawback may be the visual side... and then describing the visual side with a smiley-ended line?

That's... stunning.
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Old January 9 2009, 01:29 AM   #101
darkwing_duck1
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Re: If You Could Re-Imagine the Constitution-Class Refit...

Cary L. Brown wrote: View Post
Oh, c'mon now... you're criticising me for "hyperbole" for a post where I say that, as far as we know, the movie itself may be fine and the only drawback may be the visual side... and then describing the visual side with a smiley-ended line?

That's... stunning.
Ok, I'll man up and cop to missing your smilie...but Cuttingedge100 has no such defense.
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Old January 9 2009, 05:42 PM   #102
CuttingEdge100
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Re: If You Could Re-Imagine the Constitution-Class Refit...

Darkwing_Duck1,
Ok, I'll man up and cop to missing your smilie...but Cuttingedge100 has no such defense.
I said what I intended to say. Maybe it was exaggerated, but that's what I think of the design by in large.


Cary L. Brown
While I would hesitate to claim that it was INTENTIONAL, I'd have to agree that, whatever the intention, that's how it comes across to me.
I don't think it was intentional either, it's just that JJ Abrams' just has really bad taste when it comes to re-imagining Star Trek designs...

This movie may well end up being very well-acted and very entertaining, and may even fit (if you ignore the visual) with the Star Trek we all know (alternative timelines and the potential for a "reset button").
Who knows! I doubt it though

It's really only the visual design, so far, that makes me wanna retch.
I actually dislike the movie for other reasons as well. The graphics though does *NOT* help though...


CuttingEdge100

Last edited by CuttingEdge100; January 10 2009 at 12:34 AM.
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Old January 10 2009, 02:21 AM   #103
Captain Robert April
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Location: In selfless service to fandom, on the road to becoming a Star Trek trivia god...
Re: If You Could Re-Imagine the Constitution-Class Refit...

I'm just seeing so much from all sides that tell me that these guys simply
DO.
NOT.
GET.
IT.
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Old January 10 2009, 11:27 AM   #104
ST-One
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Location: Germany - with UHC since the early 1900s
Re: If You Could Re-Imagine the Constitution-Class Refit...

Johnnymuffintop wrote: View Post
Here's something I've been working on.
Very nice work
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Old January 10 2009, 11:29 AM   #105
ST-One
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Location: Germany - with UHC since the early 1900s
Re: If You Could Re-Imagine the Constitution-Class Refit...

Captain Robert April wrote: View Post
I'm just seeing so much from all sides that tell me that these guys simply
DO.
NOT.
GET.
IT.
What is they do not get?
That there are Trek-Fans who are just to (intellectually) inflexible to accept a new design for the Enterprise?
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