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Old November 23 2008, 07:04 PM   #1
Judith Sisko
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Lives of Dax - Trill-Vulcan 1st Contact

I'm re-reading "The Lives of Dax" and I'm curious about the Trill-Vulcan First Contact.

Is there anything else written on the subject?
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Old November 23 2008, 08:20 PM   #2
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Re: Lives of Dax - Trill-Vulcan 1st Contact

Nope, I don't think so. In the grand scheme of things, that's pretty insignificant.
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Old November 23 2008, 08:33 PM   #3
tranya
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Re: Lives of Dax - Trill-Vulcan 1st Contact

This was one of my favorite bits in The Lives of Dax -- it didn't even seem to contradict the later portrayal of Vulcans in Enterprise very much, if memory serves. One of my favorite non-TOS Trek books.
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Old November 23 2008, 08:51 PM   #4
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Re: Lives of Dax - Trill-Vulcan 1st Contact

tranya wrote: View Post
This was one of my favorite bits in The Lives of Dax -- it didn't even seem to contradict the later portrayal of Vulcans in Enterprise very much, if memory serves. One of my favorite non-TOS Trek books.
Except, if memory serves, it does seem to suggest T'Pau was a veteran diplomat around at the time of Vulcan-Human first contact, which doesn't jibe with her later depiction in ENT, and would have made her really old in "Amok Time".
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Old November 23 2008, 08:55 PM   #5
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Re: Lives of Dax - Trill-Vulcan 1st Contact

William Leisner wrote: View Post
tranya wrote: View Post
This was one of my favorite bits in The Lives of Dax -- it didn't even seem to contradict the later portrayal of Vulcans in Enterprise very much, if memory serves. One of my favorite non-TOS Trek books.
Except, if memory serves, it does seem to suggest T'Pau was a veteran diplomat around at the time of Vulcan-Human first contact, which doesn't jibe with her later depiction in ENT, and would have made her really old in "Amok Time".
She could have been a diplomat before joining the Syrrannites and she looked about 250 in Amok Time, older still in TSFS. It can be fixed, maybe.
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Old November 23 2008, 09:03 PM   #6
tranya
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Re: Lives of Dax - Trill-Vulcan 1st Contact

Xeris wrote: View Post
William Leisner wrote: View Post
tranya wrote: View Post
This was one of my favorite bits in The Lives of Dax -- it didn't even seem to contradict the later portrayal of Vulcans in Enterprise very much, if memory serves. One of my favorite non-TOS Trek books.
Except, if memory serves, it does seem to suggest T'Pau was a veteran diplomat around at the time of Vulcan-Human first contact, which doesn't jibe with her later depiction in ENT, and would have made her really old in "Amok Time".
She could have been a diplomat before joining the Syrrannites and she looked about 250 in Amok Time, older still in TSFS. It can be fixed, maybe.
True, I'd forgotten about T'Pau's involvement in this story. And she wasn't in TSFS, that was T'Lar, I believe.
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Old November 23 2008, 09:17 PM   #7
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Re: Lives of Dax - Trill-Vulcan 1st Contact

Another thing that I find interesting is that the Trill know of humanity and are helping Starfleet in the 22nd Century before the founding of the Federation.
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Old November 24 2008, 02:39 AM   #8
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Re: Lives of Dax - Trill-Vulcan 1st Contact

That is interesting, and it's supported in at least a few places in recent trek fiction and "non-fiction". In Star Charts, Trill is a stop in the 22nd Century early UFP Trade Routes, and in the first Destiny book Dax was reflecting back to hir memories of being present at the launching of Columbia NX-02. The Tobin story in TLOD also takes place mid(?)-Romulan War which isn't too far off either, but you were probably already referring to that bit.
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Old November 24 2008, 02:50 AM   #9
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Re: Lives of Dax - Trill-Vulcan 1st Contact

William Leisner wrote: View Post
tranya wrote: View Post
This was one of my favorite bits in The Lives of Dax -- it didn't even seem to contradict the later portrayal of Vulcans in Enterprise very much, if memory serves. One of my favorite non-TOS Trek books.
Except, if memory serves, it does seem to suggest T'Pau was a veteran diplomat around at the time of Vulcan-Human first contact, which doesn't jibe with her later depiction in ENT, and would have made her really old in "Amok Time".
It is pretty obvious the intent was to have it be the same T'Pau and ENT put a crimp in things. But if one wanted to do a creative bit of retcon the argument could be made that it was a separate person. Perhaps it's even a family name. Like how Tuvok's mother is named T'Meni as is his granddaughter. Or Worf and his Grandad Worf, or Ian Andrew Troi, Deanna's Dad and Ian Andrew her son. I'd buy it.
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Old November 24 2008, 03:35 AM   #10
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Re: Lives of Dax - Trill-Vulcan 1st Contact

^^The T'Pau in TLOD: "First Steps" has to be a different T'Pau from the one in ENT and "Amok Time." ENT: "The Forge" explicitly establishes that T'Pau was only 32 standard years old in 2154, meaning that "First Steps" takes place 47 years before she was born.

And they don't even have to be related, any more than I'm related to Christopher Walken or Christopher Reeve. Heck, there have been three different characters named T'Pel in canonical Trek and a fourth in the novels; that seems to be a very common Vulcan female name. So having more than one T'Pau isn't shocking.
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Old November 24 2008, 04:07 AM   #11
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Re: Lives of Dax - Trill-Vulcan 1st Contact

Really? I know of Tuvok's wife, and the supposedly deadly Vulcan Assassin urban legend, but who are the other two?
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Old November 24 2008, 05:20 AM   #12
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Re: Lives of Dax - Trill-Vulcan 1st Contact

lvsxy808 wrote: View Post
Really? I know of Tuvok's wife, and the supposedly deadly Vulcan Assassin urban legend, but who are the other two?
T'Pel was the name of an ancestor mentioned by Spock in "Yesteryear" when he was pretending to be cousin Selek. And we saw an Ambassador T'Pel in "Data's Day," although she turned out to be a Romulan spy named Selok.
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Old November 24 2008, 04:54 PM   #13
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Re: Lives of Dax - Trill-Vulcan 1st Contact

So long as there is filmed Trek (TV or movies), it will always trump the fiction, even after the fact, no matter what was intended originally.

So while it clearly was meant to be 'the' T'Pau (though I don't recall now if that was my idea or Marco's or Kristine's - I'd just wanted to do the first contact story and don't remember who suggested that T'Pau be the diplomat), if Enterprise contradicts the short story, then Enterprise supersedes it.

*shrug*

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Old November 25 2008, 03:12 AM   #14
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Re: Lives of Dax - Trill-Vulcan 1st Contact

Christopher wrote: View Post
^^The T'Pau in TLOD: "First Steps" has to be a different T'Pau from the one in ENT and "Amok Time." ENT: "The Forge" explicitly establishes that T'Pau was only 32 standard years old in 2154, meaning that "First Steps" takes place 47 years before she was born.

And they don't even have to be related, any more than I'm related to Christopher Walken or Christopher Reeve. Heck, there have been three different characters named T'Pel in canonical Trek and a fourth in the novels; that seems to be a very common Vulcan female name. So having more than one T'Pau isn't shocking.
No, dammit! They HAVE to be related, I will be thoroughly shocked, Shocked I say, if they aren't! There's no room in Trek for Diversity. I'm writing my congressman, this simply won't stand.
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Old November 25 2008, 07:51 PM   #15
tranya
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Re: Lives of Dax - Trill-Vulcan 1st Contact

js wrote: View Post
So long as there is filmed Trek (TV or movies), it will always trump the fiction, even after the fact, no matter what was intended originally.

So while it clearly was meant to be 'the' T'Pau (though I don't recall now if that was my idea or Marco's or Kristine's - I'd just wanted to do the first contact story and don't remember who suggested that T'Pau be the diplomat), if Enterprise contradicts the short story, then Enterprise supersedes it.

*shrug*

js
Most definitely. Yet, it's still fun to try to wrestle stories that have been made non-canonical back into sync with canon. This "two T'Paus" solution is pretty inelegant, but it works.
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