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Trek Tech Pass me the quantum flux regulator, will you?

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Old November 24 2008, 09:21 PM   #16
westwords2020
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Re: Up sizing the movie Enterprise

Aircraft carriers also pay attention to quality of life isssues as well the launch/landing cycles. Russian carriers are designed to fight for themselves with air defense systems and a dozen economy size surface to surface missiles suitable for sinking an American carrier.
On long missions, the Typhon had a swimming pool, a suana and a small pet zoo to make a six month mission bearable.
So how is the Enterprise different?
I'm not changing vessel proportions, just the dimensions to accomodate crews on long missions and JJ's desire for a vast ship.
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Old November 24 2008, 09:46 PM   #17
Nightfall to-Ennien
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Re: Up sizing the movie Enterprise

I do believe the question to ask is why? What gives the impression that the Enterprise, at well over a quarter of a kilometer long, is not large enough to house every sort of facility that the crew would need to perform their mission with a reasonable quality of life? I mean, if they've got a bloody bowling alley in there somewhere, I have trouble imagining them having any sort of shortage in space...
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Old November 25 2008, 12:56 AM   #18
westwords2020
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Re: Up sizing the movie Enterprise

That shuttlebay trailer scene started this. The doors to the shuttlebay were 60 feet wide and 30 feet high but to accomodate two rows of shuttles with a taxiway (?) in between you need more space and that reminded me of all that time spent on a larger ship. Double the dimensions increases hull skin area by factor of four and interior volume by factor of eight.

Now we have room for bowling alleys, Olympic standard swimming pools and all matter of creature comforts as well as more power generating and using important machinery for the long missions, which call for creature comforts ala typhoon ballistic missle subs and Kursts giant cruise missiles carriers for USN aircraft carrier killing.

A note about the deflector dish, use it as a weapon for space to ground bombardment since the aperture is so much larger than a phaser. Ship to ship, I don't know.
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Old November 25 2008, 02:12 AM   #19
Herkimer Jitty
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Re: Up sizing the movie Enterprise

westwords2020 wrote: View Post
That shuttlebay trailer scene started this. The doors to the shuttlebay were 60 feet wide and 30 feet high but to accomodate two rows of shuttles with a taxiway (?) in between you need more space and that reminded me of all that time spent on a larger ship. Double the dimensions increases hull skin area by factor of four and interior volume by factor of eight.
We don't even KNOW that that's the shuttlebay. In fact, the light coming from the top and sides seems more visually consistent with sunlight than with artificial lighting IMO.
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Old November 25 2008, 03:20 AM   #20
westwords2020
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Re: Up sizing the movie Enterprise

That is what it seems to be and the sunlight could be an artifical lighting method that reproduces sunlight accurately for crew health.
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Old November 25 2008, 06:54 AM   #21
Herkimer Jitty
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Re: Up sizing the movie Enterprise

westwords2020 wrote: View Post
That is what it seems to be and the sunlight could be an artifical lighting method that reproduces sunlight accurately for crew health.
That's ludicrous. If that were the case, this lighting technique would be used all over the ship. I find it hard to believe that they'd sunlight just the shuttlebay and not habitated crew sections.
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Old November 25 2008, 12:49 PM   #22
westwords2020
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Re: Up sizing the movie Enterprise

And how do we know that artifical sunlight isn't used in other areas of the ship where people congregate such as the gym, rec room. miniforest, swimming pool while working areas use more 'industrial' light. And it should be remembered that today's submarines employ colors designed to soothe like green.
But the real issue remains, could all SF ships have double their original dimensions with the eightfold volume increase without throwing out every model either real or CGI out and replacing them or could it be done as a modification. Meannwhile, the First Federation and the Borg will have the monopoly on Really big ships.
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Old November 25 2008, 12:57 PM   #23
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Re: Up sizing the movie Enterprise

But we have very good reason from the described plot of the movie to believe that this is not the shuttlebay of a starship!

That is, the plot involves Cadets Kirk and McCoy shuttling up to a starship from Academy grounds, and this scene seems to show the starting point of that journey, not the endpoint. Note the instructor there giving the roll call, and distributing personnel to different shuttles no doubt headed to different ships. That hangar must be down in San Francisco...

Also, doubling the size of the known ships without changing their shape isn't an option, due to the visibility of things like window rows and doorways. Inserting subtly or completely different ships could be done, but to what aim? The ships are too big to begin with, with so much interior room that the camera can never visit it all - and in the case of the E-D far too much of it to explain how more than two people out of a crew of mere thousand can be seen in the same shot.

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Old November 25 2008, 02:09 PM   #24
Ghrakh
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Re: Up sizing the movie Enterprise

I'm with the view that this isn't the Enterprise shuttlebay but a ground-based hanger. The structure looks like a real hangar. Also, I don't recall if shuttles flew inside a shuttlebay with people standing there..wouldn't the shuttlebay get decompressed to allow the doors to open?
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Old November 25 2008, 02:29 PM   #25
ancient
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Re: Up sizing the movie Enterprise

Herkimer Jitty wrote: View Post
westwords2020 wrote: View Post
That shuttlebay trailer scene started this. The doors to the shuttlebay were 60 feet wide and 30 feet high but to accomodate two rows of shuttles with a taxiway (?) in between you need more space and that reminded me of all that time spent on a larger ship. Double the dimensions increases hull skin area by factor of four and interior volume by factor of eight.
We don't even KNOW that that's the shuttlebay. In fact, the light coming from the top and sides seems more visually consistent with sunlight than with artificial lighting IMO.
And those are cadets in that scene, not crewmen. If the scene descriptions are right, that hangar is on the ground, and the shuttles are departing to different ships for the cadet's first mission.

EDIT: As a bunch of people already said...
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Old November 25 2008, 08:20 PM   #26
Anticitizen
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Re: Up sizing the movie Enterprise

The only beef I have with the apparent dimensions of the original Enterprise is the depiction of the apparently gigantic rec room in TMP. It appears to be about three stories tall, the size of a basketball court, and apparently only contains some square futons and a few video games. Quite the waste of space for a ship of that size.
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Old November 25 2008, 11:45 PM   #27
westwords2020
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Re: Up sizing the movie Enterprise

I was over at navweaps.com and they quoted the largest supertanker as being 1500 feet long and 225 feet wide. It would appear that Starfleet is operating smaller ships than can be built here on Earth with present technology.
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Old November 25 2008, 11:59 PM   #28
kv1at3485
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Re: Up sizing the movie Enterprise

So what?
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Old November 26 2008, 01:54 AM   #29
Herkimer Jitty
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Re: Up sizing the movie Enterprise

Let the First Federation and the Borg and those other chumps have their superships. Death does come in a thousand cuts, does it not?
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Old November 26 2008, 01:58 AM   #30
westwords2020
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Re: Up sizing the movie Enterprise

So there is no bar to larger Starfleet ships, at least technically.
The number of decks is doubled, the distant one travels from one side of the rim to the other is doubled.
But the main problem is the established shapes of certain areas which might have to be changed.
If so, change them how? And into what form? A bridge with doubled dimensions becomes more expansive and has a much higher ceiling. Could we live with that?
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