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Old November 11 2008, 10:23 PM   #1
RobertScorpio
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Location: San Diego
My problem with HEROES

And I am a big fan of continuity driven shows. The problem with Heroes is that it is hard to remember anything that has happened on that show...Last nights 'past' episode tried to frame things around past events on that show and its just hard for some to recall where the motivations were at a time JUST before the show started....

The twist at the end was good, but I am starting not to care about these characters because, A, they never really die, and B, their backstories are so screwy its hard to remember.....

They need to make the show easier to follow. I know that sounds, well, simplistic of me...but sometimes TOO Much planning can be the wrong way to go...LOST found this out too

Rob
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Old November 11 2008, 10:38 PM   #2
Kryton
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Re: My problem with HEROES

RobertScorpio wrote: View Post
A, they never really die
You may want to stick with sitcoms if you can't remember the (so far) permanent deaths of Nikki, Adam, Alejandro, Candice, Deveaux and his daughter, Isaac Mendez, everyone Sylar killed (including super-hearing lady, make-things-melt man, Molly's parents, super-memory chick whom Hiro befriended 6 months in the past, glass-breaker goth dude, etc.)...not to mention D.L., Linderman, Hiro's dad, and (though it may be in question) Maury Parkman.

But no, they never really die.

ETA: Bob with the Midas touch and Eric Roberts's character also come to mind. And no, flashback episodes like Monday night's do NOT equal bringing a character back to life.

Last edited by Kryton; November 11 2008 at 11:27 PM.
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Old November 11 2008, 10:41 PM   #3
Shurik
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Re: My problem with HEROES

My problem with this show is that it doesn't make much sense since the beginning of this season. It all looks like some random stuff that was made up on the spot (kinda like Lost, but Lost makes it much better). People who were presumed dead for 2 seasons show up, others dissapear, villains turn good, heroes turn bad - for no apparent reason. Suddenly, everyone is everyone else's brother, sister, mother or father.

I loved the first season and even thought that the second was pretty good too.
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Old November 11 2008, 10:43 PM   #4
Hermiod
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Re: My problem with HEROES

My problem with this show is that they think taking their character's powers away = drama.

No, Tim, it equals been there, done that.
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Old November 11 2008, 11:06 PM   #5
A Clockwork Lim
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Re: My problem with HEROES

My problem is Season 2 sucked and Season 3 is a desperate attempt to repair the damage done in Season 2 by creating even more damage.

I'd prefer they go with Kring's original idea of saying "fuck it" to the current cast and instead bringing in a new one each season or two.
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Old November 11 2008, 11:29 PM   #6
davejames
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Re: My problem with HEROES

Shurik wrote: View Post
My problem with this show is that it doesn't make much sense since the beginning of this season. It all looks like some random stuff that was made up on the spot (kinda like Lost, but Lost makes it much better). People who were presumed dead for 2 seasons show up, others dissapear, villains turn good, heroes turn bad - for no apparent reason. Suddenly, everyone is everyone else's brother, sister, mother or father.

I loved the first season and even thought that the second was pretty good too.
Yeah the second season wasn't great, but at least it was fairly easy to follow. The third season just got so convoluted and mixed up that I ultimately stopped caring and stopped watching.

To be honest though, I don't think they could have sustained the quality of the first season anyway. This was a show more about surprises than characters, and unfortunately all the good surprises have been used already.
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Old November 12 2008, 12:50 AM   #7
TK421
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Re: My problem with HEROES

Season 2 was bad. I quit, then got persuaded to go back and watch to the end. Eh, okay, I thought, give season 3 a shot.

Quit after 3 episodes for good.

It kind of reminds me of 4400 in as much as the first season was a great set-up, but they had absolutely no idea what to do with it.
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Old November 12 2008, 05:12 AM   #8
M'rk, son of Mogh
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Re: My problem with HEROES

lol, convoluted and not easy to follow?

What's happening to people these days? This is "Heroes", it's not that complex at all, and in fact, any comicbook I read these days not only reference things from even farther back than 3 years (Dan Slott, Peter David, and Kurt Busiek spring to mind right away), but the plotting is equal to, if not more complex, than what we see on this show.

How dumb does a show need to be to keep people following?

How does anybody follow the Treks at all? "All Good Things", 7 years after the premier (not 3!) and roughly doing the same thing as Heroes the other night must have been what REALLY turned people away from the modern Treks!
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Old November 12 2008, 05:18 AM   #9
DWF
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Re: My problem with HEROES

Hermiod wrote: View Post
My problem with this show is that they think taking their character's powers away = drama.

No, Tim, it equals been there, done that.
Well I think they realized that Peter and Hiro are far too powerful and create too many problems storywise, I mean in reality Hiro could solve any and all problems on the show just be travelling backwards in time and fixing things.
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Old November 12 2008, 05:21 AM   #10
Luckyflux
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Re: My problem with HEROES

I don't think season two sucked, I know every week I was eager to see each episode. Some eps were good some were bad. It worked for me.

Season 3 is weird, the stories aren't written well. They are written just to power a story instead without much realism. I mean Hiro is like I am bored, I need a mission. Hey who are you Mister Msytery person that just so happens to show up now for no reason? Here is a secret thing and don't f-ck with it......

It just doesn't seem right. But I am still into it. I look forward to Monday night to watch Heroes! I wish they would tell better stories for the characters I like....like Future Peter when he had his powers and kicked the crap out of like 3 or 4 dudes! The scar looks cool too. I do wonder how he will get the scar....
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Old November 12 2008, 05:33 AM   #11
RobertScorpio
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Re: My problem with HEROES

Luckyflux wrote: View Post
I don't think season two sucked, I know every week I was eager to see each episode. Some eps were good some were bad. It worked for me.

Season 3 is weird, the stories aren't written well. They are written just to power a story instead without much realism. I mean Hiro is like I am bored, I need a mission. Hey who are you Mister Msytery person that just so happens to show up now for no reason? Here is a secret thing and don't f-ck with it......

It just doesn't seem right. But I am still into it. I look forward to Monday night to watch Heroes! I wish they would tell better stories for the characters I like....like Future Peter when he had his powers and kicked the crap out of like 3 or 4 dudes! The scar looks cool too. I do wonder how he will get the scar....
Like you, I still watch. I just wish it wasn't so damm confusing a times..

Rob
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Old November 12 2008, 07:15 AM   #12
Temis the Vorta
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Re: My problem with HEROES

Yeah it helps a lot to have the DVDs and have rewatched them recently.

For instance, after reviewing the S1 DVDs not long ago, I was struck by the disconnect between the Sylar who scrawled FORGIVE ME a hundred times on the walls of his secret room and the remorseless Sylar who emerged not very long afterwards.

I figured it was just one of those discrepencies that crop up in complex serialized shows and it would never be reconciled. It was a small detail, not something that really required an answer.

But now we know the connecting bridge was Elle and Noah's manipulations. Wow. And they remembered to have Sylar actually say "forgive me" early in the episode to jog our memories. But that was two years ago, after all. You'd still need to have the DVDs.
They need to make the show easier to follow. I know that sounds, well, simplistic of me...but sometimes TOO Much planning can be the wrong way to go...LOST found this out too
Lost is an even better show than Heroes is, so that doesn't persuade me! Practically every show on TV is made for short attention spans. Watch one of those and leave the Heroes and Lost to those of us willing to make an effort to keep up.

You may want to stick with sitcoms if you can't remember the (so far) permanent deaths of Nikki, Adam, Alejandro, Candice, Deveaux and his daughter, Isaac Mendez, everyone Sylar killed (including super-hearing lady, make-things-melt man, Molly's parents, super-memory chick whom Hiro befriended 6 months in the past, glass-breaker goth dude, etc.)...not to mention D.L., Linderman, Hiro's dad, and (though it may be in question) Maury Parkman.

But no, they never really die.
Yeah this show is a slaughterfest. But he does have a point that if you can identify the fan-favorites, and that's not too hard to do, you can also figure out which characters are immune from any real deaths.
How dumb does a show need to be to keep people following?
Very dumb. TV is 95% brain-dead shows and people want to take the non-brain-dead 5% away? Geezus, leave us something!
My problem with this show is that it doesn't make much sense since the beginning of this season.
It's not that bad. Mohinder's characterization this season makes no sense, but the rest of it either makes sense or doesn't blatantly not make sense.
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Old November 12 2008, 08:22 AM   #13
Hermiod
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Re: My problem with HEROES

DWF wrote: View Post
Hermiod wrote: View Post
My problem with this show is that they think taking their character's powers away = drama.

No, Tim, it equals been there, done that.
Well I think they realized that Peter and Hiro are far too powerful and create too many problems storywise, I mean in reality Hiro could solve any and all problems on the show just be travelling backwards in time and fixing things.
Well, no he couldn't because as he has said, going back in time causes more problems than it solves. In season one when he went back to tell Peter to save the cheerleader he said that he was "risking a rift just by coming here".

Let's put it this way, Marvel has a character called The Sentry. He is the equivalent of Peter because he is so much more powerful than everyone else that he could just put a stop to whatever was going on whenever he wanted to and nobody could do a thing about it. Ultron killed his wife Lindy and he just decided it wasn't true, he chose for her to be alive and she was.

He does, however, have a weakness - he's insane. He refused to fight the Hulk because it would have meant leaving his house. He's missing during the Skrull invasion that's going on right now because they took advantage of his insanity.

Claude referred to a potential weakness with Peter in season one - absorbing too many powers makes them unstable. That's a good weakness that can easily be turned in to, for example, Peter can't risk switching between powers too much because he might go nuclear again.
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Old November 12 2008, 11:40 AM   #14
DWF
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Re: My problem with HEROES

^^^And yet Hiro continues to travel only backwards in time, he did it to set up Andro's fake death and again to try and get the jump on the African precog.
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Old November 12 2008, 11:49 AM   #15
Hermiod
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Re: My problem with HEROES

DWF wrote: View Post
^^^And yet Hiro continues to travel only backwards in time, he did it to set up Andro's fake death and again to try and get the jump on the African precog.
Only one of the two worked.

There's a bunch of scenes in what would have been the next episode of season two after "Powerless" before the strike hit where Hiro and Ando argue over Hiro's refusal to continue using his powers.

Hiro's decision is probably largely based on the fact that he went back in time, by accident possibly, where he met Kensei/Adam Monroe. His actions directly contributed to Monroe becoming a villain when he had the potential to be a great hero. That led to Monroe almost releasing the virus and wiping out most of the human race.
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