RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 139,665
Posts: 5,429,175
Members: 24,816
Currently online: 473
Newest member: CapSmith


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > Voyager

Voyager There's coffee in this forum!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old January 7 2009, 07:35 PM   #1
Semah
Commander
 
Semah's Avatar
 
Location: I am a leaf on the wind.
Send a message via AIM to Semah Send a message via Yahoo to Semah
Can somebondy explain the Hansons to me?

I just watched the Star Trek: Borg DVD, and among them is Voyager's Dark Frontier. I had long since stopped watching Voyager by the time it was on, so this was new to me. How in the hell were the Hanson family even aware of the Borg at the time of the flashbacks, let alone equipped with a super invisible-to-Borg ship?

EDIT: And can somebody explain why I spelled "Somebody" the way I did in the title?
Semah is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 7 2009, 07:42 PM   #2
C.E. Evans
Vice Admiral
 
C.E. Evans's Avatar
 
Location: Saint Louis (aka Defiance)
Re: Can somebondy explain the Hansons to me?

I think it's fair to say [now] that everybody knew about the Borg except the crew of the Enterprise-D...

As far as mispelling somebody, you were probably thinking of James Bond...
__________________
"Everybody wants to rule the world..."
C.E. Evans is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 7 2009, 08:56 PM   #3
Guy Gardener
Fleet Admiral
 
Guy Gardener's Avatar
 
Location: In the lap of squalor I assure you.
Re: Can somebondy explain the Hansons to me?

Kirk was killed rescuing a few thousand Ellurian refugees from a Borg Invasion, and they were granted sanctuary in Federation space.

There must have been a couple of these listeners who were chatty about the events leading up tot he death of Captain Kirk in the hundred years leading up to he Events in Q Who, especially towards the officious lot who had to decide if it was worth taking them in?
__________________
"Glitter is the herpes of arts and craft."

Troy Yingst. My Life as Liz
Guy Gardener is online now   Reply With Quote
Old January 7 2009, 08:56 PM   #4
Finn
Vice Admiral
 
Finn's Avatar
 
Location: In the MetroWest
Re: Can somebondy explain the Hansons to me?

In Q Who, Q implied that they should have known already, with the attacks in the Neutral Zone and all. We are to assume that Section 31 along with few scientists and other individuals were aware of the Borg to some extent. The signal those borg in ENT's Regeneration sent to the Delta Quadrant were supposed to have provoked Borg attacks in TNG's The Neutral Zone.
Finn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 7 2009, 08:57 PM   #5
propita
Rear Admiral
 
Location: fresno, ca, us
Re: Can somebondy explain the Hansons to me?

Heck, how could StarFleet not have known about the Borg when Guinan's people were refugees? As far back as Kirk's time, right?

Stupid.

I think that Magnus(?) Hansen said something about the "rumors" of the Borg that they were investigating. So maybe they were hanging out at the extreme end of the Alpha Quadrant, nearest the areas the Borg were reported to be in?
propita is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 7 2009, 09:06 PM   #6
Guy Gardener
Fleet Admiral
 
Guy Gardener's Avatar
 
Location: In the lap of squalor I assure you.
Re: Can somebondy explain the Hansons to me?

Some think that the machine race who upgraded V'Ger might have been the Borg.

Archer said that Zephram Cochrane made a drunken speech about them a few years after the Phoenix launched.

You must remember that Voyager was continually sliding sideways in time that many of their stories were set in completely different quantum realties than the week before if anything the writing staff was producing was to make sense after all their misadventures with tme mucking with their own causality.
__________________
"Glitter is the herpes of arts and craft."

Troy Yingst. My Life as Liz
Guy Gardener is online now   Reply With Quote
Old January 7 2009, 09:18 PM   #7
Semah
Commander
 
Semah's Avatar
 
Location: I am a leaf on the wind.
Send a message via AIM to Semah Send a message via Yahoo to Semah
Re: Can somebondy explain the Hansons to me?

Finn wrote: View Post
In Q Who, Q implied that they should have known already, with the attacks in the Neutral Zone and all. We are to assume that Section 31 along with few scientists and other individuals were aware of the Borg to some extent. The signal those borg in ENT's Regeneration sent to the Delta Quadrant were supposed to have provoked Borg attacks in TNG's The Neutral Zone.

I don't buy it.

Q's doings in that episode was obviously introducing humanity, not just the Enterprise, to The Borg, in order to show them that humanity, not just the Enterprise was not ready to branch out as far as it was on pace to.

Just another example of how the Borg were ruined, in my eyes.
Semah is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 7 2009, 09:38 PM   #8
Lynx
Rear Admiral
 
Lynx's Avatar
 
Location: Lynx Empire
Re: Can somebondy explain the Hansons to me?

Well, they had that mega-hit with "Mmm-bop-bop-bop-mmm-bop" but then their star was fading and they just dissapeared. Lost in space, I guess. Just like they had moved to another planet or been transported to another galaxy. Definitely out of transporter range, if you know what I mean.
__________________
Who'd let that cat in here?

Welcome to visit the Kes Website at a new location soon!
Lynx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 7 2009, 09:38 PM   #9
JNG
Chief of Staff, Starfleet Command
 
Re: Can somebondy explain the Hansons to me?

I can buy that the Hansens were chasing half-baked rumors of a dangerous and powerful interstellar entity of some kind in that part of the galaxy (rumors from the recalcitrant El-Aurians, who obviously would not have wanted their rescuers to go tweak the Borg, or from Cochrane's drunken rantings), went out further than anyone in efforts to investigate those rumors, and found a lot more than they bargained for. Obviously, they never got a chance to report back in on what they found.

While the continuity is somewhat stitched together, it still holds up okay. The real first contact between representatives of the civilizations in which someone survives to tell the tale and actually has a name to put to the threat is still "Q Who?" If Q had not zapped the Enterprise away from the Borg at the end of that episode, they'd have merely disappeared as well, with the Federation no wiser about the Borg despite the loss of several outposts and colonies along the Romulan Neutral Zone to their hostile action. It's difficult to gather and disseminate reliable intelligence on an enemy that tends to overwhelm all resistance so quickly.

I just didn't like the suggestion in "Regeneration" that the Borg would be coming because of the signal. Of how much interest could Earth and its minor space program be to the Borg most of the way across the galaxy? I always thought that the Borg just happened into the Neutral Zone area and continued on their way, not judging either the Federation or Romulans worthy of further time, until the "Q Who?" incident in which they saw Enterprise-D display capabilities they did not understand. Of course, we the viewers know it was Q, but how could the Borg know this?

I believe that after that incident, the very same ship headed straight for the Federation to find out what was what. I don't know why the Queen then decided to play games with assimilating Picard and naming him and wanting to marry him or whatever that B.S. was; maybe it was because the Federation didn't turn out to be the power she expected, but she picked up on the connection between Picard and Q in computer records or something like that and was curious to see how much more she could get going. Perhaps all her weird efforts could be rationalized as attempts to get Q's attention with unpredictable methodology and personal connections to Picard. She may also have only gone back in time to fulfill the predestination paradox of the signal being sent in "Regeneration"--hey, she probably knows more about this crap than we do. Ted, don't forget to wind your watch!

Either way, it seems pretty clear that the Borg aren't exactly dedicating all available resources to assimilating Federation worlds; indeed, why should they? It can't be THAT great of a prize compared to other powers nearer to their point of origin. I'm sure they have better things to do.
JNG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 7 2009, 10:32 PM   #10
Guy Gardener
Fleet Admiral
 
Guy Gardener's Avatar
 
Location: In the lap of squalor I assure you.
Re: Can somebondy explain the Hansons to me?

Remember in the 1980 Flash Gordon movie, Ming talks about how he likes to tour the universe every few thousand years and test the primitive worlds? Lord Ming Master of the Universe puts them through a barrage of buggery for a couple days, and if they're too thick to notice Mongo being at the crux of all this skulduggery, then he moves on.

The Shadows from Babylon 5 had a more altruistic reason for attacking everyone in the galaxy every few thousand years or so, war promotes evolution. War increases technical sophistication, war gets rid of the week, war makes you better, better as a person and better as a species. When the dust settles, win or lose, what ever is still alive afterward is stronger, faster, smarter, better.

The Borg may have attacked the neutral zone to provoke the humans and Romulans into inventing new technology worth assimilating, to develop cultural distinctiveness worth assimilating, to make them worthy of ascending to the next level of galactic society. To be Borg.

The best defense against the Borg is to flush your technology down the toilet, and as a species become unhealthy and cubersome and ignore any incitement for self improvement anyone might offer who just really wants to eat you or enslave you.

Really it's no different than that witch fattening up Hansel before she intended to eat him.

The Hansens will live on forever in family Guy reruns.
__________________
"Glitter is the herpes of arts and craft."

Troy Yingst. My Life as Liz
Guy Gardener is online now   Reply With Quote
Old January 8 2009, 01:12 AM   #11
Finn
Vice Admiral
 
Finn's Avatar
 
Location: In the MetroWest
Re: Can somebondy explain the Hansons to me?

Semah wrote: View Post
Finn wrote: View Post
In Q Who, Q implied that they should have known already, with the attacks in the Neutral Zone and all. We are to assume that Section 31 along with few scientists and other individuals were aware of the Borg to some extent. The signal those borg in ENT's Regeneration sent to the Delta Quadrant were supposed to have provoked Borg attacks in TNG's The Neutral Zone.

I don't buy it.

Q's doings in that episode was obviously introducing humanity, not just the Enterprise, to The Borg, in order to show them that humanity, not just the Enterprise was not ready to branch out as far as it was on pace to.

Just another example of how the Borg were ruined, in my eyes.
The attacks we saw in TNG's The Neurtal Zone was intended to have been done by the Borg BEFORE Q Who came out. ENT's Regenration explains it perfectly, since the Borg were supposed to be from the Delta Quadrant- I remember reading a source about the Borg being from the Delta Quadrant before the plans for Voyager were even on the drawing board.

The real history is full of that kind of thing. Some historians believe that an Egyptian pharoah sent a ship across the Atlantic and made it to Mexico in search of the underworld.
Finn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 8 2009, 01:46 AM   #12
2 of 10
Captain
 
2 of 10's Avatar
 
Location: Los Gatos, Ca
Re: Can somebondy explain the Hansons to me?

JNG wrote: View Post
I can buy that the Hansens were chasing half-baked rumors of a dangerous and powerful interstellar entity of some kind in that part of the galaxy (rumors from the recalcitrant El-Aurians, who obviously would not have wanted their rescuers to go tweak the Borg, or from Cochrane's drunken rantings), went out further than anyone in efforts to investigate those rumors, and found a lot more than they bargained for. Obviously, they never got a chance to report back in on what they found.

While the continuity is somewhat stitched together, it still holds up okay. The real first contact between representatives of the civilizations in which someone survives to tell the tale and actually has a name to put to the threat is still "Q Who?" If Q had not zapped the Enterprise away from the Borg at the end of that episode, they'd have merely disappeared as well, with the Federation no wiser about the Borg despite the loss of several outposts and colonies along the Romulan Neutral Zone to their hostile action. It's difficult to gather and disseminate reliable intelligence on an enemy that tends to overwhelm all resistance so quickly.

I just didn't like the suggestion in "Regeneration" that the Borg would be coming because of the signal. Of how much interest could Earth and its minor space program be to the Borg most of the way across the galaxy? I always thought that the Borg just happened into the Neutral Zone area and continued on their way, not judging either the Federation or Romulans worthy of further time, until the "Q Who?" incident in which they saw Enterprise-D display capabilities they did not understand. Of course, we the viewers know it was Q, but how could the Borg know this?

I believe that after that incident, the very same ship headed straight for the Federation to find out what was what. I don't know why the Queen then decided to play games with assimilating Picard and naming him and wanting to marry him or whatever that B.S. was; maybe it was because the Federation didn't turn out to be the power she expected, but she picked up on the connection between Picard and Q in computer records or something like that and was curious to see how much more she could get going. Perhaps all her weird efforts could be rationalized as attempts to get Q's attention with unpredictable methodology and personal connections to Picard. She may also have only gone back in time to fulfill the predestination paradox of the signal being sent in "Regeneration"--hey, she probably knows more about this crap than we do. Ted, don't forget to wind your watch!

Either way, it seems pretty clear that the Borg aren't exactly dedicating all available resources to assimilating Federation worlds; indeed, why should they? It can't be THAT great of a prize compared to other powers nearer to their point of origin. I'm sure they have better things to do.
The Hansons were the typical push the envolope type explores. The did not follow their flight plan, they disobeyed direct orders to return to the BQ, they broke all the rules, and they should be commended for it. Discovery sometimes requires one to act and think on the fly, and the hell wth regulations. It was their research on the BORG that gave us much needed information on them, the only problem I have with their techinque was brining their daughter on this one way mission with them...
2 of 10 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 8 2009, 02:19 AM   #13
Guy Gardener
Fleet Admiral
 
Guy Gardener's Avatar
 
Location: In the lap of squalor I assure you.
Re: Can somebondy explain the Hansons to me?

They were Junkies chasing the dragon.

Sure their drug was the advancement of science and proving their theories, but it was still an incredibly destructive way for them to live their lives which had to turn out badly and then they dragged a child into it.

Which made them deuches as well as suicidal.

Kenny Rogers said it best:

You gotta know when to hold'em, know when to fold'em, know when to walk away and know when to run.

They were obviously manic incapable of making reasonable choices, and never considered ever running away no matter how dangerous it got.

Would you trying to sneak between the entire Chineese army to find definitive evidence of bigfoot?

Just crazy.

So crazy that you have to wonder if they would have done anything differently knowing their eventual fate?

Seven called them dillholes. Or some polite way of calling some one a dillhole. And then one of the talking heads spouted on about them being pioneers who believed in the bigger picture.

I couldn't believe my ears!

They drilled into her skull through her eye socket, scooping out enough of her brain to make way for all the technology they needed to pepper her with, before another 20 years of complete slavery mind and soul after they stuck her in a box for a year or two which made her grow up faster.

Her parents did that to her.

In the best of Both worlds they talked about the Borg Footprint. Seen before both in the Neutral zone and Q Who confirming that the Federation was under attack by the Borg.

If the Hansens hadn't been so greedy... The federation not only would they have had an extra 10 years warning about how close the Borg where by using the Hansens tech to become functionally invisible, the Borg would practically become a herd race the Federation milked for information and technology, but the federation would have been able to defend all those neutral zone outopsts and save perhaps millions and millions of lives. Billions maybe if you countt he Romulan loss of life.

Bah humbug.
__________________
"Glitter is the herpes of arts and craft."

Troy Yingst. My Life as Liz
Guy Gardener is online now   Reply With Quote
Old January 8 2009, 02:22 AM   #14
Semah
Commander
 
Semah's Avatar
 
Location: I am a leaf on the wind.
Send a message via AIM to Semah Send a message via Yahoo to Semah
Re: Can somebondy explain the Hansons to me?

Lynx wrote: View Post
Well, they had that mega-hit with "Mmm-bop-bop-bop-mmm-bop" but then their star was fading and they just dissapeared. Lost in space, I guess. Just like they had moved to another planet or been transported to another galaxy. Definitely out of transporter range, if you know what I mean.

I did find that the scenes with them were better when I'd mentally substitute the soundtrack with "Mmm-Bop."
Semah is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 8 2009, 02:26 AM   #15
Semah
Commander
 
Semah's Avatar
 
Location: I am a leaf on the wind.
Send a message via AIM to Semah Send a message via Yahoo to Semah
Re: Can somebondy explain the Hansons to me?

2 of 10 wrote: View Post

The Hansons were the typical push the envolope type explores. The did not follow their flight plan, they disobeyed direct orders to return to the BQ, they broke all the rules, and they should be commended for it. Discovery sometimes requires one to act and think on the fly, and the hell wth regulations. It was their research on the BORG that gave us much needed information on them, the only problem I have with their techinque was brining their daughter on this one way mission with them...

And THAT is the bit that I can't wrap my brain around. You can handwave their knowledge of the Borg and ability to develop anti-Borg tech, but why in the hell would anyone bring their young daughter on this mission? There is no way that makes any sense. It's like a hastily-thrown together RPG character background.
Semah is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 05:31 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.