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Old October 27 2009, 08:37 AM   #226
Cyke101
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Re: Star Trek: Online

Arix wrote: View Post
I know there are as many people who hated Destiny as there are who loved it (afterall, we Trekkies are that way about EVERYTHING, just look at the huge controversy about the new movie). But I'm one of those crazy fans who's seen every episode, and read SO many of the books, that I have my own strong opinions about what should happen next in the post-Nemesis Trek universe... and the storyline of STO goes against that completely.
That's cool and all, but I imagine that if 2009 saw the release of either a film or TV series set after the TNG/DS9/VOY era, that we would still get something that went completely against all the expanded post-Nemesis material.

Ah well, if you want to also subscribe to your own personal canon, you're more than welcome to. I know I do (USS Hood was the fourth most popular vessel in Starfleet! Why do I know? Shut up, that's why! ).
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Old October 27 2009, 10:05 AM   #227
Arix
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Re: Star Trek: Online

Cyke101 wrote: View Post
That's cool and all, but I imagine that if 2009 saw the release of either a film or TV series set after the TNG/DS9/VOY era, that we would still get something that went completely against all the expanded post-Nemesis material.

Ah well, if you want to also subscribe to your own personal canon, you're more than welcome to. I know I do (USS Hood was the fourth most popular vessel in Starfleet! Why do I know? Shut up, that's why! ).
Oh, a new film or TV series set post-Nemesis would mean I'd have to completely disregard the expanded novel material (assuming it goes against it) - but thats very different from one non-canon media (that is, a game) going against another non-canon media. In cases like that, then I do subscribe to my own personal canon and choose which story I like more!

And if a new film or tv series used elements from STO, I'd have to accept that too - even if it'd be difficult at first.
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Old October 27 2009, 10:36 PM   #228
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Re: Star Trek: Online

Cyke101 wrote: View Post
Captain_Amasov wrote: View Post
Cyke101 wrote: View Post
On a mass market scale, I can see why the Klingons are back to being enemies. For one thing, most every non-Trekkie still sees Klingons as the opposition rather than the huge leaps they made with, say,TNG and DS9. And while they're enemies, they're still not really villains thanks to Worf, Torres, etc.

And yet there still needs to be a variation for players to choose from aside from Starfleet, the Klingons being the next logical step being as popular as they are. Like Johnny, I hope more playable sides are eventually released, like the Klingons and maybe even the Dominion.

Additionally, do we know the Klingons' storyline just yet? For all we know, we could be fighting offshoot factions as opposed to the official forces, and there's still plenty of time to paint the Empire in a sympathetic light as well.
They're currently engaged with both the Romulan Star Empire and the Gorn Hegemony. Now after the destruction of Romulus the Federation offered aid to them, which the Klingons don't like one bit. The Federation feels that the Klingons are kicking a dog when it's down, Starfleet ships have even been used to blockade the Klingons to protect some Romulan systems.

Meanwhile the Gorn have also allied themselves with the Nausicaans to help them fight off the Klingons who are assaulting their territory, unfortunately raids by Nausicaan pirates continue to disrupt shipping lines on the edges of Federation space. This has caused the Federation Transport Union to refuse any official cargo shipment without proper protection from Starfleet.

However with so many Starfleet vessels assigned to both Romulan and Cardassian relief efforts the Federation Council has been relying heavily on civilian ships for routine deliveries to Federation member worlds, Starfleet Command reluctantly agrees to pull back from the Klingon-Romulan border and reassign those ships to patrol the shipping routes.

The situation between the Klingons and Gorn breaks down even further, the Klingons push further into Gorn territory threatening their homeworld. As raids on civilian ships and settlements along the borders of the Klingon Empire and Gorn Hegemony rise due to the Nausicaans, the Federation Transport Union demands that Starfleet increase its patrols along the border regions.

This puts Starfleet in the unfortunate position of having to balance the need for defense against the pirates with the Federation's deteriorating relationship with the Klingon Empire. Starfleet vessels on the border will be seen as a hostile act by the hardliners on the Klingon High Council, and tensions are already high because of the ships that Starfleet had been using to reinforce the Romulan border with the Klingon Empire.
Actually, and I should have clarified this so it's my fault, but when I asked if we knew the Klingons' story yet, I meant could they be considered purely antagonistic just yet? In games like WoW, EverQuest, or City of Heroes, it's pretty obvious who the playable villains are. But just because the Klingons disagree with the Federation politically doesn't truly make them villains in the "real" world (as opposed to in-game, and I'm quite sure the Gorn and the Romulans would disagree with me).
That's hard to say, however there's a couple of videos that simplifies the story all the way up to 2409:

The Future Past Part 1: http://uk.gamespot.com/xbox360/rpg/s...st-part-1?hd=1
The Future Past Part 2: http://uk.gamespot.com/pc/rpg/startr...st-part-2?hd=1
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Old October 29 2009, 12:28 AM   #229
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Re: Star Trek: Online

^Cool, as always, thanks for the links Cap'n
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Old October 29 2009, 03:43 AM   #230
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Re: Star Trek: Online

Captain_Amasov wrote: View Post
there's a couple of videos that simplifies the story all the way up to 2409:
The Future Past Part 2:
Thanks a lot for these videos!

The game-engine-cinematics-style footage from the 'PRE-BETA' helps and hurts. The medium-wide shots of the ships and colorful space, gaseous areas, planet textures, and gorgeous depth of planet rings, and lighting look good.
The all-space battles remind me way too much of Star Wars The Clone Wars and SWpt.IV and even the music reminded me of Star Wars.

Can anyone identify the music used in The Future Past Part 2 video?
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Old October 29 2009, 03:53 PM   #231
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Re: Star Trek: Online

What watching those videos I got a major DS9 flashback. Shapeshifters taking over a government and leading them to war. Klingons suddenly saying, "I know we gave it up but we want this sector back now. All Federation people need to piss off." It's like I'm back in later season 4/early season 5 of the show.

I knew they were going to be in the game due to seeing one in a screenshot but if there was one species I could go without seeing again it would be Species 8472.

Don't know why but the fact that the Federation and Klingons are at war in 2409 surprised me. I thought it was going to be a cold war situation not a actively going around blowing up your stuff war.
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Old October 30 2009, 03:46 AM   #232
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Re: Star Trek: Online

Here's Jonny! wrote: View Post
What watching those videos I got a major DS9 flashback. Shapeshifters taking over a government and leading them to war. Klingons suddenly saying, "I know we gave it up but we want this sector back now. All Federation people need to piss off." It's like I'm back in later season 4/early season 5 of the show.

I knew they were going to be in the game due to seeing one in a screenshot but if there was one species I could go without seeing again it would be Species 8472.

Don't know why but the fact that the Federation and Klingons are at war in 2409 surprised me. I thought it was going to be a cold war situation not a actively going around blowing up your stuff war.
Maybe now you can understand my concerns from the previous page. It feels like a HUGE step backwards, and for what? So we can have some PvP?

Watching those two videos only made me dislike the story in STO even more. It feels like they're forcing too many disparate elements together for the sake of gameplay.

The Klingons conquering the Gorn, Nausicaans and Orions - only because they want more race options when you play as the Klingon Empire faction. (Which is an issue in itself I think, because if I want to play as the Klingons, or the Romulans, or any other monoracial faction, then I don't want to play as Gorn or Nausicaans or Orions or whoever else!)

The Klingons going to war with the Federation... Why exactly? And yes, its an all out war - but even if it was only a cold war situation, that would seem stupid to me - what is this, TOS? Ever since the Khitomer Accords, the Klingons have been grudging allies of the Federation - sure, there were a few bumps, like the Klingon Civil War in TNG, and season 4/5 of DS9 (which was due to Changeling infiltration) - but in the end of both of those examples, the Klingons were allied with the Federation once again. The Klingons being at war with the Federation just feels so... unnecessary to me. Why not make a new big bad enemy that both the Feds and the Klingons can fight? Do we really need PvP between all the factions?!

And I was surprised to see Species 8472 in the video - when it first mentioned 'Changeling infiltrators' I didn't make the connection. Then when I saw them I was like 'wait... what?!' I remember the episode from Voyager where they had plans to infiltrate Earth... but I distinctly remember Janeway convincing 'Boothsby' that the Federation was peaceful.

IF they were going to bring in 8472, which I don't mind - they were pretty cool - then I'd rather they come in guns blazing. Changeling infiltrators, as you said, has been done before - copying DS9 doesn't seem like a particularly brilliant or inventive move.

And besides, it really bothered me that the Klingons found out 8472 was behind the Gorn's aggression... but then they went on to attack the Federation anyway...
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Old October 30 2009, 06:34 AM   #233
acappellasaurus
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Re: Star Trek: Online

Sorry to divert the thread from the storyline topic, but really quick, can anyone tell me if my laptop can play this game? I have a Dell XPS M1530, Intel Core 2 Duo.
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Old October 30 2009, 06:52 AM   #234
Arix
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Re: Star Trek: Online

acappellasaurus wrote: View Post
Sorry to divert the thread from the storyline topic, but really quick, can anyone tell me if my laptop can play this game? I have a Dell XPS M1530, Intel Core 2 Duo.
Its not out yet, so we don't know the minimum requirements.
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Old October 30 2009, 08:39 AM   #235
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Re: Star Trek: Online

Arix wrote: View Post

The Klingons conquering the Gorn, Nausicaans and Orions - only because they want more race options when you play as the Klingon Empire faction. (Which is an issue in itself I think, because if I want to play as the Klingons, or the Romulans, or any other monoracial faction, then I don't want to play as Gorn or Nausicaans or Orions or whoever else!)
The Orions actually have allied with the Klingons. Which I originally though was what the Gorn and Nausicaans were going to do, kind of their version of the novel's Typhon Pact. I don't have a problem with the Klingons conquering those races. The Klingons are meant to be an aggressive war-like race so now we get to seem them doing that.

The Klingons going to war with the Federation... Why exactly? And yes, its an all out war - but even if it was only a cold war situation, that would seem stupid to me - what is this, TOS? Ever since the Khitomer Accords, the Klingons have been grudging allies of the Federation - sure, there were a few bumps, like the Klingon Civil War in TNG, and season 4/5 of DS9 (which was due to Changeling infiltration) - but in the end of both of those examples, the Klingons were allied with the Federation once again. The Klingons being at war with the Federation just feels so... unnecessary to me. Why not make a new big bad enemy that both the Feds and the Klingons can fight? Do we really need PvP between all the factions?!
I don't think its a stretch for them to be at war, I simply thought that when the game kicked off it the two sides were just going to be antagonistic. Probably more info I've retained from the old studio.

Look at the history of the Klingons and the Federation. They seem to go through cycles. The mid to late 23rd century both sides are hostile to each other and even go to war for a very brief period. A peace is settled before the turn of the century, that peace has all but gone by around the 2330s and would be gone if the Enterprise-C hadn't fluked into a battle and got spanked by the Romulans over a Klingon world. We see if that didn't happen the Klingons and Federation would have gone to war.

Fast forward another 30 years and the Federation again intervenes and places a more Federation friendly Chancellor (or at least a very anti-Romulan Chancellor) in power. If they had left the Klingons to work it out it was likely Duras would have won and the Klingons and Federation relationship probably would have soured and maybe gone to war again.

Even with a semi-pro-Federation Chancellor the Klingons nature once again pushes for them to be more aggressively expansive after seemingly decades of peace and the Founders exploit this, just as they exploited the Obsidian Order and Tal Shiar's natures and crushed them. Federation interference in a Klingon war sours the relationship and the two clash over old grudges.

The Dominion threat manages to unite them again for a while and what does the Federation do? They interfere and help promote another seemingly pro-Federation person to be Chancellor. The question is while Martok seems to be a more sensible Chancellor, in line with say Gorkon, he is still a Klingon warrior and playing second fiddle to the Federation probably will grate.

Fast forward another 30 years. The Romulans are crumbling and the Klingons take advantage. The Federation is again stepping in where it isn't wanted and the Klingon don't like that. Pro-Federation or not Martok would consider a war of conquest against the Romulans to be none of the Federations business. Probably give them the old "galaxy would be safer with Romulus under Klingon control."

It's the Species 8472 jumping in that I don't like. Partly because I don't like them and because it isn't all that necessary. The Gorn and Nausicaans could naturally go to war against the Klingons because they fear they were next after Romulus (much as Federation worlds on the Klingon border were advocating a pre-emptive strike against the Klingons following the Klingon invasion of Cardassia). Also given the Klingons commitment to taking on the Romulans, they would look like a vulnerable target.

If they really had to have an 'alien conspiracy' they should have used the conspiracy aliens from TNG. They have already gone the pick and choose route with the non-canon timeline, they could easily ignore the Trill-parasite connection of the DS9 relaunch and have them as some sort of vanguard for a new and original enemy.

And besides, it really bothered me that the Klingons found out 8472 was behind the Gorn's aggression... but then they went on to attack the Federation anyway...
I agree with that...sort of. Three 8472 guys attack one Klingon and they lose...what the hell? We saw one tearing up the Borg with no problems, another spent months on the run with no weapons or help from two Hirogen hunters. Yet three can't ambush with one Klingon politician...

As for attacking the Federation. They were already on poor terms by the time the Klingon-Gorn war ended. The Federation is not only defending itself but it has taken up defending the remnants of the Romulan Star Empire and the Cardassian Union, so the Klingons are seeing their old territory and saying, "now we can take it back."
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Old October 30 2009, 10:22 AM   #236
Arix
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Re: Star Trek: Online

Here's Jonny! wrote: View Post
The Orions actually have allied with the Klingons. Which I originally though was what the Gorn and Nausicaans were going to do, kind of their version of the novel's Typhon Pact. I don't have a problem with the Klingons conquering those races. The Klingons are meant to be an aggressive war-like race so now we get to seem them doing that.
Two things -

Firstly, I don't have a problem with the Klingons conquering other races, its those races showing up as crew on the Klingon ships which I have a problem with! Of course the Klingons are going to conquer other races, presumably they've continued doing that all this time, yet we never see any of these subject races on the show. So seeing them now, in the form of the Gorn, Nausicaans and Orions, feels forced and goes against what we've seen before (in a way which I personally don't like, maybe others do, and I can respect that).

Secondly, the reason I don't like the Klingons conquering the Gorn, Nausicaans and Orions in particular, is because that means we have less races to become factions in the future. Shoving minor races into a bigger faction just doesn't seem right to me - the Federation is supposed to be made up of a lot of races, the other factions aren't. Making a faction such as 'pirates', which then included races like the Nausicaans and the Orions, would make more sense than lumping them all with the Klingons.

The 'big races' who've been established in the show, such as the Klingons, Romulans, Cardassians, Dominion, and Borg (the latter two groups, I don't think should be playable) and to some extent the Ferengi, should all be their own factions. If they were putting minor races like the Tholians, Gorn and Breen together (ala the Typhon Pact) then I'd have no problem with it.

But again, this is all just the way I feel about it, and I can understand why other people don't have a problem with it.

Here's Jonny! wrote: View Post
I don't think its a stretch for them to be at war, I simply thought that when the game kicked off it the two sides were just going to be antagonistic. Probably more info I've retained from the old studio.

Look at the history of the Klingons and the Federation. They seem to go through cycles. ......

It's the Species 8472 jumping in that I don't like. Partly because I don't like them and because it isn't all that necessary. The Gorn and Nausicaans could naturally go to war against the Klingons because they fear they were next after Romulus (much as Federation worlds on the Klingon border were advocating a pre-emptive strike against the Klingons following the Klingon invasion of Cardassia). Also given the Klingons commitment to taking on the Romulans, they would look like a vulnerable target.

If they really had to have an 'alien conspiracy' they should have used the conspiracy aliens from TNG. They have already gone the pick and choose route with the non-canon timeline, they could easily ignore the Trill-parasite connection of the DS9 relaunch and have them as some sort of vanguard for a new and original enemy.
Hmmmm, okay, I can concede that perhaps the Klingons being at war with the Federation does have precedence in the past...

As I said, the main reason I don't like it is because I like the events of Destiny and the Typhon Pact more, and wish they'd followed that instead of the story they've come up with.

Especially because the Klingons warring with the Federation has been done so often in the series! For the same reason, I'm glad the Borg were wiped out in Destiny, and I really hope the Dominion doesn't come into STO - they've all been done, and done fairly well (except the Borg, who became jokes in Voyager), in the TV series. After watching them all, I'm ready for some new enemies - or at least an exploration of the enemies we don't know much about, like the Romulans, Breen, Gorn and Tholians.

But again, I completely understand why other people feel differently.

As for the Conspiracy aliens. On the STO forums, we had various discussions about who the 'ancient threat' described in the story might be, and the most popular choice was usually the Conspiracy aliens... so they still might show up.
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Old October 31 2009, 03:15 AM   #237
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Re: Star Trek: Online

Species 8472 actually helps put the Klingons in a more sympathetic light, every action taken is because they've either tried to infiltrate the empire or have used other factions to attack them.

It should be noted that the Federation itself has also been infiltrated by Species 8472, one of the early missions has you escorting a Federation ambassador to P'Jem who turns out to be one, his exposure is caused by the Klingons trying to stop your Starfleet ship from delivering him to the planet's surface.

Every action taken against the Klingons up to this point by the Federation could easily have been instigated by Species 8472, no wonder the Klingons are paranoid, they have every right to be.
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Old October 31 2009, 04:13 AM   #238
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Re: Star Trek: Online

^ It won't be a surprise that I dislike the notion of putting the Klingons in a more sympathetic light.
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Old October 31 2009, 05:16 AM   #239
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Re: Star Trek: Online

Here's Jonny! wrote: View Post
^ It won't be a surprise that I dislike the notion of putting the Klingons in a more sympathetic light.
Well that's not to say that what they're doing is exactly right, it just isn't a clear good or bad thing. They're acting the way Klingon's would act against a threat, by punching it in the face. That doesn't mean it's the best way to deal with the problem just a Klingon way of dealing with it
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Old October 31 2009, 04:24 PM   #240
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Re: Star Trek: Online

When STO was announced, one of the first thing I thought was how the Klingons could be used to channel hardcore PVPer behavior into something that fits within the world of the game. Klingons seem like born PVPers to me.
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