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Star Trek Movies I-X Discuss the first ten big screen outings in this forum!

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Old November 20 2008, 04:46 AM   #31
Tallguy
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Re: Star Trek-TMP Directors Edition NOT on Blu-Ray!!!

Indysolo wrote: View Post
Don't start up with your "White Zone" sh*t again!

Neil
Oh really, Vernon? Why pretend, we both know perfectly well what this is about.
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Old November 21 2008, 02:21 AM   #32
Peach Wookiee
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Re: Star Trek-TMP Directors Edition NOT on Blu-Ray!!!

Uh...Guys? What?
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Old November 21 2008, 02:26 AM   #33
Maurice
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Re: Star Trek-TMP Directors Edition NOT on Blu-Ray!!!

^^^They're quoting the "white zone" announcements from the opening of "Airplane!"
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Old November 21 2008, 03:17 AM   #34
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Re: Star Trek-TMP Directors Edition NOT on Blu-Ray!!!

Shame on anyone who doesn't know the white zone/red zone discussion.
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Old November 21 2008, 04:05 AM   #35
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Re: Star Trek-TMP Directors Edition NOT on Blu-Ray!!!

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Shame on anyone who doesn't know the white zone/red zone discussion.
Yes, but can you tell me where Airplane got it from?
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Old November 21 2008, 04:47 AM   #36
Kronos
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Re: Star Trek-TMP Directors Edition NOT on Blu-Ray!!!

DS9Sega wrote: View Post
Kronos wrote: View Post
Shame on anyone who doesn't know the white zone/red zone discussion.
Yes, but can you tell me where Airplane got it from?
Was it Zero Hour like 90% of the rest of the movie?
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Old November 21 2008, 06:31 AM   #37
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Re: Star Trek-TMP Directors Edition NOT on Blu-Ray!!!

DS9Sega wrote: View Post
^^^They're quoting the "white zone" announcements from the opening of "Airplane!"
Thanks. ^^
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Old November 21 2008, 06:34 AM   #38
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Re: Star Trek-TMP Directors Edition NOT on Blu-Ray!!!

I'm not as harsh on the DE as TGT is, and never was. But, I do still prefer the theatrical cut.

In fact, I pulled out the old laserdisc of the widescreen theatrical cut recently when I was able to finally hook up the ol' Pioneer LD player to the Sony LCD (the TV cabinet we bought 2 years ago was too shallow and it was only a couple weeks back that I finally got around to cutting out the back to fit the monster in).

I don't have a Blu-ray player yet, but intend on getting one by Christmas.

I'm glad they are giving us the TC first in HD. The LD is really fuzzy. And, as time has gone by, there are only a few edits in the DE that I still like -mainly the additional (and relevant) dialog. What they cut, I was never happy about. The new sound effects, I didn't like a lot of. The new visual effects I could take or leave. The new "animated" V'ger bridge though always bothered me and never bought the idea of trying to copy the look of "traditional cel animation" by double-framing it. Truth is, for a movie like this, it never would have been traditional double-frame cel animation. They would have single-frame shot it like even Disney has always done with key scenes in their own theatrical animations.
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Old November 21 2008, 08:18 AM   #39
Maurice
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Re: Star Trek-TMP Directors Edition NOT on Blu-Ray!!!

Kronos wrote: View Post
DS9Sega wrote: View Post
Kronos wrote: View Post
Shame on anyone who doesn't know the white zone/red zone discussion.
Yes, but can you tell me where Airplane got it from?
Was it Zero Hour like 90% of the rest of the movie?
Nope. I believe it's taken from the novel Airport by Arthur Hailey.

JDF wrote: View Post
The new "animated" V'ger bridge though always bothered me and never bought the idea of trying to copy the look of "traditional cel animation" by double-framing it. Truth is, for a movie like this, it never would have been traditional double-frame cel animation. They would have single-frame shot it like even Disney has always done with key scenes in their own theatrical animations.
You're correct about that. The correct term is "shooting on twos", and that's for animated films, not for animated effects overlain on live action which is by definition shot on ones.
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Old November 21 2008, 11:07 AM   #40
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Re: Star Trek-TMP Directors Edition NOT on Blu-Ray!!!

JDF wrote: View Post
The new "animated" V'ger bridge though always bothered me and never bought the idea of trying to copy the look of "traditional cel animation" by double-framing it. Truth is, for a movie like this, it never would have been traditional double-frame cel animation. They would have single-frame shot it like even Disney has always done with key scenes in their own theatrical animations.
Hiya, JDF. Robert Swarthe did an absolutely masterful animation job for ST:TMP's wormhole live-action and V'ger transcendence sequences (see Cinefex #11 for details). That Swarthe would have suddenly got lazy for the Voyager 6 Island "bridge building" effects - as that bloated hack Dochterman asserted - is a rather disgusting professional insult to a brilliant artist.

TGT
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Old November 21 2008, 07:58 PM   #41
JDF
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Re: Star Trek-TMP Directors Edition NOT on Blu-Ray!!!

DS9Sega wrote: View Post
JDF wrote: View Post
The new "animated" V'ger bridge though always bothered me and never bought the idea of trying to copy the look of "traditional cel animation" by double-framing it. Truth is, for a movie like this, it never would have been traditional double-frame cel animation. They would have single-frame shot it like even Disney has always done with key scenes in their own theatrical animations.
You're correct about that. The correct term is "shooting on twos", and that's for animated films, not for animated effects overlain on live action which is by definition shot on ones.
I figured there was a more "proper" term, I just didn't know what it was.

The God Thing wrote: View Post
JDF wrote: View Post
The new "animated" V'ger bridge though always bothered me and never bought the idea of trying to copy the look of "traditional cel animation" by double-framing it. Truth is, for a movie like this, it never would have been traditional double-frame cel animation. They would have single-frame shot it like even Disney has always done with key scenes in their own theatrical animations.
Hiya, JDF. Robert Swarthe did an absolutely masterful animation job for ST:TMP's wormhole live-action and V'ger transcendence sequences (see Cinefex #11 for details). That Swarthe would have suddenly got lazy for the Voyager 6 Island "bridge building" effects - as that bloated hack Dochterman asserted - is a rather disgusting professional insult to a brilliant artist.

TGT
Hi back at ya', and I agree.

It's been a while since I last posted around here. I pop in every once in a while to see what's going on, but I knew this release news would draw you in. I figured I'd jump in too.
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Old November 22 2008, 02:53 AM   #42
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Re: Star Trek-TMP Directors Edition NOT on Blu-Ray!!!

I greatly look forward to the Blu-ray releases of this - and the rest of the films.

I do enjoy both versions of TMP. I would imagine that someday there will be the Director's Edition on Blu. But, it would require a complete re-render of the Lightwave scenes to HD, or even preferably 4k for that matter (to match the film scans).

I sincerely hope that the other films' special editions are available along with the theatrical versions via seamless branching on single Blu-ray discs, perhaps with a second disc to hold more of the special features.

As far as the V'Ger melding animation goes - I agree that the 2-framing was inappropriate for a feature film and should be corrected in a new HD version.
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Old November 22 2008, 02:44 PM   #43
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Re: Star Trek-TMP Directors Edition NOT on Blu-Ray!!!

The God Thing wrote: View Post
Robert Swarthe did an absolutely masterful animation job for ST:TMP's wormhole live-action and V'ger transcendence sequences (see Cinefex #11 for details). That Swarthe would have suddenly got lazy for the Voyager 6 Island "bridge building" effects - as that bloated hack Dochterman asserted - is a rather disgusting professional insult to a brilliant artist.

TGT
Mojo is credited with the quote about the hand animation being done two frames at a time. He even says, "I thought to myself, 'How would they have done this back then?'". See page 56 of Star Trek - The Magazine Volume 2, Issue 8 for details.

A little fact checking goes a long way, but then it might also go against your personal crusade against the creators of The Director's Edition and I guess you couldn't have that.

Neil
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Old November 22 2008, 02:53 PM   #44
GodThingFormerly
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Re: Star Trek-TMP Directors Edition NOT on Blu-Ray!!!

Indysolo wrote: View Post
Mojo is credited with the quote about the hand animation being done two frames at a time. He even says, "I thought to myself, 'How would they have done this back then?'". See page 56 of Star Trek - The Magazine Volume 2, Issue 8 for details.

A little fact checking goes a long way, but then it might also go against your personal crusade against the creators of The Director's Edition and I guess you couldn't have that.
Dochterman was the CGI "supervisor" of this disaster, was he not? If so then he bears at least as much responsibility as Leibowitz for permitting the latter to get away with turning in such a profoundly shitty animation sequence.

TGT
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Old November 22 2008, 07:51 PM   #45
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Re: Star Trek-TMP Directors Edition NOT on Blu-Ray!!!

too many clicks
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