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Trek Literature "...Good words. That's where ideas begin."

View Poll Results: Grade Lost Souls
Excellent 130 72.22%
Above Average 35 19.44%
Average 12 6.67%
Below Average 1 0.56%
Poor 2 1.11%
Voters: 180. You may not vote on this poll

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Old November 21 2008, 06:57 PM   #91
Lonemagpie
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Re: Star Trek: Destiny: Lost Souls - Discuss/Grade

Stephen! wrote: View Post
What was the reason for the change in the Borg, to go from assimilation to killing and mass murder of entire populations?
They assimilated a Dalek
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Old November 21 2008, 07:42 PM   #92
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Re: Star Trek: Destiny: Lost Souls - Discuss/Grade

Stephen! wrote: View Post
What was the reason for the change in the Borg, to go from assimilation to killing and mass murder of entire populations?
As explained in Greater Than the Sum, Voyager's destruction of the Borg transwarp hub elevated Starfleet/the UFP from "minor nuisance" to "serious threat." Essentially "Endgame" was the Borg's 9/11, shaking them out of their complacency and sending them into high alert against a suddenly major enemy. And given all the other times that Starfleet had successfully resisted assimilation or stymied Borg plans, the Borg recognized that their conventional tactics would not work against the Federation. So they did what they always do: they adapted. Faced with a serious threat they couldn't conquer or tolerate, they chose eradication as the only viable alternative. It took the Borg a few years to find a way to reach the UFP and carry out that plan, though. (The Borg seen in Resistance/Before Dishonor/GTTS were a separate offshoot of Borg, cut off from the main Collective due to the transwarp hub's destruction, acting on their own. Their "kill rather than assimilate" behavior was a defense mechanism activated by their need to protect their nascent Queen in Resistance. As for why they continued to enact that approach afterward, I guess that since the Queen's "birth" was aborted, they never got the order to stand down from that hyperaggressive state.)
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Old November 21 2008, 07:53 PM   #93
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Re: Star Trek: Destiny: Lost Souls - Discuss/Grade

Stephen! wrote: View Post
What was the reason for the change in the Borg, to go from assimilation to killing and mass murder of entire populations?
Collective mass insanity. Basically, they tried assimilating the Federation with one cube at a time, and the UFP kept defeating the cubes. Then Voyager came along and struck a blow to their transwarp conduits — the kind of damage that makes you wince and say, "Oooo, that's gonna leave a mark." At that point the Borg decided to Hell with assimilating us; we weren't worth the trouble, and we were obstructing their other goals. Better to wipe us out before our technology and numbers become any more threatening.

Lonemagpie wrote: View Post
I always find it cathartic to fictionally slaughter hordes of whoever.

But then, I've worked in retail...
I know the feeling — I worked in foodservice.




WARNING TO ALL WHO HAVE NOT READ LOST SOULS — MAJOR SPOILERS FOLLOW....




bennyrex wrote: View Post
But, once the Caeliar were introduced as these sort of ominous isolationist pacifists, I was fairly certain that the ending would involve our noble heroes convincing the Caeliar to put their pacifistic ideals aside to exterminate the implacable foe for which there is no other possible way of engaging and surviving. I was still looking forward to reading it, and thinking it would be awesome. But I thought it would be another 'might makes right' shindig.

I had been looking forward to 'Greater than the Sum' ever since I learned Bennett would be writing a book with the Borg, because I thought that would be how Christopher would tackle the Borg. That he'd find the creative peacemakers solution. When the ending to that was essentially destroying the Borg threat, I thought "Man, if Chris can't find a non-violent way of handling the Borg, no one can." Never in a million years did I think that Destiny would end with such a hopeful message for non-violent solutions.

"To find and protect cultures of peace and nonviolence." Wow. Wow.
When I was developing the trilogy outline with my editors, one of my key points for the ending was that "destroying the Borg" was not a true reflection of the Starfleet ethos or the Star Trek mythology. If this was to represent a step forward for the TrekLit continuity, I wanted to respect the Star Trek philosophy that it is better to create than to destroy, better to heal than to kill, better to make peace than to wage war.

And to go from that experience to a resolution that affirmed everything that I believe is important about the world. A resolution that could face the Borg... the unstoppable force, the closest thing to a biblical Satan of the Star Trek world, and face it through redemption...
Interesting choice of words, considering my deliberate invocation of language from the New Testament in the final chapters of Lost Souls.

I know this is fiction... but fiction can be very powerful. Fiction can change the world.
Perhaps not by itself, but I like to think it can help like-minded individuals share good ideas. And that's where change begins.

This book is definitely on the list of books that have changed *my* world.
I know I'm an emotional old softie, but reading about your reaction to the trilogy has even made me a bit misty. It's very moving to hear that something I created has had such a profound impact on you as a reader. Thank you for sharing your feelings in such detail, particularly in a public forum. I'm both touched and honored.

Also, on a lighter note... I think I'm getting a little fanboy crush on Choudhury... {snip} I can't wait to see where her relationship with Worf goes. Choudhury is easily my favourite Treklit character, and it was a HUGE relief for me seeing her survive.
Yeah, Christopher and I had a great time figuring out what makes her tick.

Her attraction to Worf was one of those things that evolved naturally. At first, it seemed like an attraction of opposites, but when I discussed it with Christopher, we realized the differences between her and Worf are fairly superficial; in their personal histories they have so many parallels that it's scary.

I think it is reflected best in the scene in her quarters, when they talk about "the tree." By the time I reached the end of that scene, I realized that she might be as important a soul mate for Worf as Jadzia was.

And kudos on the tight structure! After book one, I really wondered about the point of the whole Aventine murder mystery. I didn't get why it was there, and felt a bit disappointed by it. Now I get it. The disappointment is gone. It really feels like absolutely every element was needed and used. Well done, sir.
That, apparently, was why my editors insisted that I outline the entire trilogy as a single work before I could be green-lighted to proceed to manuscript. We made sure the narrative had an overall structure and symmetry before I wrote page one.

David - You got to talk to Geddy Lee? AWESOME! And he's reading/read the trilogy? (at least that's what I got from the acknowledgments...) AMAZING!
I met Geddy and Alex in July 2007, backstage at the PNC Bank Arts Center in Holmdel, N.J., after the concert. (Neil doesn't do meet and greets anymore, but a couple of months later — after checking my bona fides with Kevin J. Anderson — he sent me a nice thank-you e-mail for the signed copies of A Time to Kill and A Time to Heal I had brought for him.) The whole story of that amazing day can be found on my blog.

As far as whether Geddy's reading the trilogy, I doubt it. I haven't had a chance yet to send it to him (or to the other guys). As soon as I get my box o' comps from the publisher, I plan to inscribe and autograph complete sets for each member of the band, as well as for director Bryan Singer and my pal Randy, who introduced me to all of them. Since the book is dedicated to all of them, and they all make cameos in it, it seemed like a nice Christmas gift.

Thanks again for all of your comments. It's reactions such as yours that make this job feel worthwhile.

Best,
David Mack
P.S. — For those who have read Mere Mortals and Lost Souls, you might notice some familiar names of cameo characters from those books when you read my linked blog post…
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Old November 21 2008, 09:56 PM   #94
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Re: Star Trek: Destiny: Lost Souls - Discuss/Grade

David,
Hot damn, sir, that book (and the whole trilogy, natch) was freakin' AWESOME!!! Just.. wow, it rocks, and rocks hard. I was hoping the ending would live up to the build-up (and that one of those pesky deus ex machina things wouldn't get pulled out ); not only did it do that, but it did in such a way that I was blown away. As has been stated, the resolution was in the truest Trek tradition. Plaudit!! Plaudit!!

Now, I can't wait to see what comes next.. boldly forward for our heroes, no doubt, but what awaits them?
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Old November 21 2008, 11:08 PM   #95
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Re: Star Trek: Destiny: Lost Souls - Discuss/Grade

^ Gracias. Most kind of you. Glad you enjoyed it!

As for what comes next... I wouldn't dream of spoiling the surprises. And there are plenty on the way, from everyone...
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Old November 22 2008, 01:36 AM   #96
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Re: Star Trek: Destiny: Lost Souls - Discuss/Grade

I finally got my copy tonite; I politely and patiently waited at my B. Dalton (in Union Station in Washington DC) to see if they had it already; they went to the backroom and came out with the prize!! yay! I started reading it on the train; I want to savor it tho; will read it this weekend and into the week.

Then when I finish it, I am going to reread the entire trilogy.

Thanks again, David; I will let you know my thoughts when I'm done with LS.
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Old November 22 2008, 05:48 AM   #97
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Re: Star Trek: Destiny: Lost Souls - Discuss/Grade

Christopher wrote: View Post
Err, huh? The Achernar in the Romulan map in Star Charts is Alpha Eridani, the real Achernar, and "Wolf in the Fold" did mention that Heliopolis City was on Alpha Eridani II (the name Achernar wasn't used in the episode).
That's what I thought I read on that map. Thanks for the confirmation!

Brief aside: We need a new starmap, I think. It need not be the whole of the galaxy but just the UFP-known space region in the wake of this latest round of "almost the Apocalypse". Something for inclusion in the eventual collected edition of the Destiny trilogy, perhaps. I'd imagine the deadline would be too tight for something to be set up for A Singular Destiny.
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Old November 23 2008, 02:55 AM   #98
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Re: Star Trek: Destiny: Lost Souls - Discuss/Grade

I got the book this morning, and i just finished it, being unable to put it down.

Our Star Trek continues.
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Old November 23 2008, 03:57 AM   #99
Travis Chesser
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Re: Star Trek: Destiny: Lost Souls - Discuss/Grade

First time poster here - although I've posted at psiphi a few times.

David - WOW! There are so many things to say... it was nice to see you juggle characters from so many series and remain true to them. Over the past few years, so many of my fav Trek characters have been book ONLY and it was nice to see how well they were used by you.

In particular, I have a soft spot for Christine. I think I've loved her a bit since the A Time To... series, and she was stellar here as well. Bacco... kudos! And I will reiterate what another poster has said... Jasminder has quite simply overshadowed most screen Trek characters.

This is quite an accomplishment for you and all the other Trek writers... making print only characters that meaningful, and making me rededicated to all the good old screen ones as well.

SPOILERS FOLLOW:

I have never EVER got even slightly misty eyed before in a Trek book. I think there were three or four times with this one. The scene with Tuvok's son....

Once it dawned about the sheer power of what the Caeliar and Hernandez were going to do... once that whole idea sunk in, it was almost emotionally overwhelming, and than seeing your description of the trillions of drones everywhere...

Picard's breakdown... but for me the most, even though I know Voyager's not a fan favorite but Seven has always been one of mine hands down, the final scene with her in the book... absolutely unbelievable and I hope Seven is used in Kirsten Beyer's forthcoming novels...

I think most people obviously knew the Caeliar would be the source of resolution... but in a series filled with so much death and destruction, the awesome power of the pacifist ending was one of the most powerful ideas/images/events I have read in a novel this year, whether or not it was a Trek book or Pullitzer winning material.

Thank you for this and for all that you accomplished, as well as setting up some new material for KRAD, Chris, Kirsten, and everyone else who now gets to play in the new playground. I know everyone was expecting some "major" deaths but I'm glad that no one else went the way of Janeway from main cast... the ones you did kill were enough, and I was really dreading who of the BIG characters were gonna go..

Also, thanks for writing that Shar had left Andor. Appreciate it. However, I'm still mad about the purposeful suspense surrounding Voyager's crew..

Thanks again!
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Old November 23 2008, 04:10 AM   #100
Gaius Polt
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Re: Star Trek: Destiny: Lost Souls - Discuss/Grade

Dave,

It has been a long long time since I got a book and read it straight though without worrying about sleeping. The last time was KRAD's AotF.

I loved it and missed my morning appointment since I started reading at 6pm and didn't finish until 2:30am. I truly loved it.

Couple of things?

As I was reading book three, I was thinking to myself, "Where the heck is Geordi?" and then I got my answer. But once I finished his section I got the feeling that it had been added at the last minute because someone was thinking the same thing... Thoughts?

In that same line, do you feel that the characterization of Picard when he ordered the Thalaron weapon to be built was in line with what we know about him? Or the parts where he was in such serious doubt about his future? I wanted to hear what you were thinking Picard was feeling when you wrote those parts so I could better understand where he was coming from.

Thanks.
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Old November 23 2008, 01:37 PM   #101
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Re: Star Trek: Destiny: Lost Souls - Discuss/Grade

I finished the book last night.

Still processing it in my mind.

Loved the ending!

More later...

David...
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Old November 23 2008, 11:36 PM   #102
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Re: Star Trek: Destiny: Lost Souls - Discuss/Grade

Consider me the latest to have completed reading the trilogy (as of about ten minutes ago).

David, it's work like this that makes me not that sorry that we'll probably never see a TV or film continuation of the TNG/DS9/Voyager era of Star Trek. The novels have more than kept the flame burning, and to say Destiny does only that is a gross underestimation.

In fact, these three books are probably the greatest Trek story ever told. Destiny didn't just forward the Trek mythos, these books evolved and re-defined it. Three cheers, sir, and consider me on board for what's next.
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Old November 24 2008, 12:11 AM   #103
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Re: Star Trek: Destiny: Lost Souls - Discuss/Grade

I just finished Book III minutes ago.

Simply outstanding. Thank you David Mack. After reading the first two Destiny books, I've never looked more forward to a book release. And Lost Souls exceeded my high expectations.

So many memorable and significant character moments. Brilliant portrayals. The one that comes to mind at this moment is when Worf and Ezri confer before invading the Borg Scout Ship:

W: "Victory against these odds will be almost impossible."
E: "I wouldn't say impossible."
W: "I meant for the Borg."

Again, thanks to David Mack. I can't wait to read what happens next in the 24th Destiny Century.
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Old November 24 2008, 01:47 AM   #104
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Re: Star Trek: Destiny: Lost Souls - Discuss/Grade

^ Thanks to all who've recently posted their kind words about the trilogy's conclusion. I'm deeply gratified to hear that you feel it lived up to your expectations.
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Old November 24 2008, 02:23 AM   #105
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Re: Star Trek: Destiny: Lost Souls - Discuss/Grade

David Mack wrote: View Post
Interesting choice of words, considering my deliberate invocation of language from the New Testament in the final chapters of Lost Souls.

Yeah, I really appreciated it. It seemed really appropriate considering the story. After so many years of the Borg, their final redemption was really cathartic.

On a more personal note, the theme of "keeping the faith" (for lack of a better term) really resonated with me. I might have gotten a little misty when Riker told his wife "I believed in you. And, as always, my faith in you has been richly rewarded." You see the same theme running through the Borg story as well.

I mean, think of all the ugly solutions that were proposed that could have fixed their problems: like forcing Deanna to abort her child or using the thaloran weapon to wipe out the Borg. Even though those seemed like the best and perhaps only options left to them, making those choices would have killed a part of their souls. It definitely would have killed Riker and Troi's marriage. It made it so much more satisfying when faith was rewarded in the end. Deanna was able to keep her child, and Riker's faith in her was rewarded. The Borg were redeemed, and their victims had their lives restored to them.

So yeah, that came as a helpful reminder for me at this point in my life. Thanks for that.

One question I had toward the end, though. The fate of the Borg seemed to be wrapped up a little conveniently. I was thinking of all those drones who did still have something to go back to. I mean, what about the assimilated humans who might still have homes and families in the Federation? I would have expected a lot more of the former drones to go looking for their old lives. Was that ever considered when you were writing the story David?

Also, the former Borg-occupied space in the Delta Quadrant would be a pretty weird place right about now. You have thousands upon thousands of light years of suddenly empty space running like a scar through the quadrant. It'd be interesting to see how the people living on the fringes of Borg space react. And it would be pretty eerie to be the first explorers venturing into that territory.
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