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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

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Old November 1 2008, 12:21 AM   #331
Admiral Buzzkill
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Re: Empire Magazine pics!

ST-One wrote: View Post
The main viewer itself is also pretty much useless (except for eye-candy).

Absolutely Right(TM).
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Old November 1 2008, 01:27 AM   #332
ST-One
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Re: Empire Magazine pics!

Brutal Strudel wrote: View Post
The God Thing wrote: View Post
Brutal Strudel wrote: View Post
And he apparently considers Star Wars--which is downright juvenile compared to Star Trek, which is itself adolescent--the standard to which he should aspire.
Gene Roddenberry and Robert Wise were quite open about their MediaSF inspiration when the latter signed on to direct ST:TMP:



Their reach may have to a certain extent exceeded their grasp, but in the immediate terrible aftermath of the Star Wars disaster Roddenberry & Wise at the very least attempted to keep Star Trek in contact with its conceptual and stylistic roots.

TGT
Hardly surprising, considering how GR sought out the input--both in the form of scripts and background advice--of many litSF luminaries in order to craft a pardigm shifting show that would treat SF not as kiddie adventure but adult drama. It's easy to forget now--the glowing, gambling brains and hissing lizard men can do that--just how revolutionary that was.

Of course, the kids were welcome to watch, too. But, as a kid, I always felt more grown-up for doing so. Certainly, TMP did more for my growing intellect than any of the Star Wars movies did, as much as I liked them--the first two, at least; I knew at age 13 that Jedi was total shit. Abrams himself said how the smart kids liked Trek while he preferred Star Wars for its more "visceral" appeal.

Note, too, how Star Trek took its cue from the most cerebral science fiction film of the previous decade, Forbidden Planet, which put a nakedly Freudian gloss on Shakespeare among the rinky-dink trappings of a fifties monster movie, just as you show TMP taking its cue from 2001. Now we have Abrams--the creator of Felicity--comparing TOS to the amusing but tonally inaccurate show-within-the-movie Galaxy Quest (which even head cheerleader Starship Polaris has said bore more resemblance to late season Buck Rogers in the 25th Century than TOS) and thus, with his superior sophistication, promising to Star Wars it up for us.

We're supposed to think this a good thing?
Am I supposed to like that you expose Trek as the ripoff it is (with all those 'cues' taken from somewhere and someone else)?
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Old November 1 2008, 02:39 AM   #333
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Re: Empire Magazine pics!

ST-One wrote: View Post
[Image removed, per Paramount request.]

We invite you all to our wedding.


God, I think that every time I see this pair.
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Old November 1 2008, 03:10 AM   #334
Brutal Strudel
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Re: Empire Magazine pics!

ST-One wrote: View Post

Am I supposed to like that you expose Trek as the ripoff it is (with all those 'cues' taken from somewhere and someone else)?
Once again, you astonish me with your ability to deliberately mis-read an argument in order to do... what, exactly? I take it as a compliment, really: when someone refuses to debate the merits and instead resorts to chlidish pseudo-judo, it's almost as good as an outright concession. Thanks, dude.

(Btw: taking inspiration from somewhere does not equal "ripping off." Anyone with a rudimentary grasp of art and entertainment knows that. Thus, it logically follows that you do not.)

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Old November 1 2008, 03:19 AM   #335
ST-One
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Re: Empire Magazine pics!

Brutal Strudel wrote: View Post
ST-One wrote: View Post

Am I supposed to like that you expose Trek as the ripoff it is (with all those 'cues' taken from somewhere and someone else)?
Once again, you astonish me with your ability to deliberately mis-read an argument in order to do... what, exactly? I take it as a compliment, really: when someone refuses to debate the merits and instead resorts to chlidish pseudo-judo, it's almost as good as an outright concession. Thanks, dude.

(Btw: taking inspiration from somewhere does not equal "ripping off." Anyone with a rudimentary grasp of art and entertainment knows that. Thus, it logically follows that you do not.)

I was trying to be funny.
But it really is getting annoying and taking all the fun out of Star Trek when it is treated like a religion by far to many here.
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Old November 1 2008, 03:33 AM   #336
Brutal Strudel
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Re: Empire Magazine pics!

Hardly. Or at least, hardly what I'm doing. All I'm saying is that I became a Trekkie because TOS did certain things in a certain way and it looks like Abrams doesn't get it, just as Berman and Braga didn't get it. That Orci and Kurtzman are Trekkies doesn't fill me with joy, either; a lot of Trekkies have tastes and talent I find disagreeable. Just as you and your cohort can express enthusiasm based on what you see, I and my cohort can express skepticism based upon the same. Do you really want a board of non-stop "squeeeeeee"?
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Old November 1 2008, 03:41 AM   #337
GodThingFormerly
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Re: Empire Magazine pics!

ST-One wrote: View Post
Am I supposed to like that you expose Trek as the ripoff it is (with all those 'cues' taken from somewhere and someone else)?
LOL! Of course Trek is a "ripoff" of preexisting literary Space Opera ranging from Lukian of Samosata's 2nd century tale Vera Historia to A.E. van Vogt's 1950 fixup The Voyage of the Space Beagle and Eric Frank Russell's 1955 collection Men, Martians and Machines (featuring the heroic crew - which include chess-obsessed, logical "Martians" - of the starship Marathon encountering, amongst other things, a planet of villainous alien telepaths and another world dominated by intelligent machines whose biological creators have long since become extinct).

Also consider that the Organians - and every other hyper-evolved "energy being" encountered in TOS - can be traced back to Konstantin Tsiolkovsky's "Radiant Humanity" and the imprinting of human minds into supercomputers a la The Ultimate Computer was also a major plot element of Frank Herbert's 1966 novel Destination: Void (which was itself an expansion of his August, 1965 Galaxy Magazine novella, Do I Wake or Dream?). Beyond that, the speculation of the Milky Way being "Living Galaxy" for which technological humanoid civilizations serve as a biologically-ordained defense mechanism to defend against extragalactic parasitization in The Immunity Syndrome simply oozes the Milchstraßenorganismus of Robert Nast's 1928 biocosmology monograph Kosmische Hypothesen: Biologie des Weltalls mit Einleitung über die Relativität der Logik, although episode rewriter GR probably got the idea from Olaf Stapledon's 1937 novel Star Maker (which Freeman Dyson suspects was inspired by Nast).

Oh yeah, Sargon's deterministic assertion that all civilizations are condemned to self-destruction after "reproducing" through space colonization in Return to Tomorrow is right out of Dandridge Cole's magnificent 1965 tome, Beyond Tomorrow: The Next 50 Years in Space, which served double duty as the conceptual foundation of George Zebrowski's 1979 novel, Macrolife. Incidentally, Cole also coined the term "Planetoid Colonies" which found its way into the episode Friday's Child. There are many other antecedents I can dredge up, but I think these are sufficient for this particular thread.

So, ultimately, the question comes down to whose ideas are you going to liberate? Gene Roddenberry pilfered concepts from several of the leading hard (or at least firm) LitSF writers and spaceflight theorists of the day while J.J. Abrams appears to be retrofitting the plotline from The Terminator into Star Wars. I know which creative approach I would have preferred.

TGT
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Old November 1 2008, 03:56 AM   #338
Brutal Strudel
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Re: Empire Magazine pics!

TGT, I consider myself a master of the genre but you continue to remind me that I'm little more than a neophyte. I'm going to save that post for future reference.
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Old November 1 2008, 04:11 AM   #339
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Re: Empire Magazine pics!

The God Thing wrote: View Post
So, ultimately, the question comes down to whose ideas are you going to liberate? Gene Roddenberry pilfered concepts from several of the leading hard (or at least firm) LitSF writers and spaceflight theorists of the day while J.J. Abrams appears to be retrofitting the plotline from The Terminator into Star Wars. I know which creative approach I would have preferred.

TGT
Right...If someone had not actually watched TOS they'd think by reading your post that it was the most intellectual, perfect science fiction show with no imperfections whatsoever.

I love TOS but even a retrofitted plotline from Terminator into Star Wars has more to offer than some truly stupid episodes the show produced despite it's rightfully praised creative approach.

And ultimately we know next to nothing about JJ's movie. Just a few photos and bits and pieces of information with no idea of how exactly they will be presented.

Actually watch the movie first, then decide what it really is.
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Old November 1 2008, 04:34 AM   #340
Brutal Strudel
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Re: Empire Magazine pics!

SalvorHardin wrote: View Post
The God Thing wrote: View Post
So, ultimately, the question comes down to whose ideas are you going to liberate? Gene Roddenberry pilfered concepts from several of the leading hard (or at least firm) LitSF writers and spaceflight theorists of the day while J.J. Abrams appears to be retrofitting the plotline from The Terminator into Star Wars. I know which creative approach I would have preferred.

TGT
Right...If someone had not actually watched TOS they'd think by reading your post that it was the most intellectual, perfect science fiction show with no imperfections whatsoever.

I love TOS but even a retrofitted plotline from Terminator into Star Wars has more to offer than some truly stupid episodes the show produced despite it's rightfully praised creative approach.

And ultimately we know next to nothing about JJ's movie. Just a few photos and bits and pieces of information with no idea of how exactly they will be presented.

Actually watch the movie first, then decide what it really is.
Out of 79 episodes, I can think of two dozen or so, produced under tight deadline, that sound more compelling than this movie Paramount has had years to develop. I can think of five writers each with more impressive resumes than Abrams, Orci and Kurtzman combined (Ellison, Sturgeon, Bloch, Matheson, Spinrad; and that's not counting Fontana, Coon, Black, Bixby and even Roddenberry himself); throw in TMP and you have the director of The Andromeda Strain and The Day the Earth Stood Still.

It comes down to this: some of us see Trek as a step down from 2001 and Blade Runner rather than a step up from Lost in Space and The Transformers.
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Old November 1 2008, 05:20 AM   #341
trevanian
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Re: Empire Magazine pics!

SalvorHardin wrote: View Post
The God Thing wrote: View Post
So, ultimately, the question comes down to whose ideas are you going to liberate? Gene Roddenberry pilfered concepts from several of the leading hard (or at least firm) LitSF writers and spaceflight theorists of the day while J.J. Abrams appears to be retrofitting the plotline from The Terminator into Star Wars. I know which creative approach I would have preferred.

TGT
Right...If someone had not actually watched TOS they'd think by reading your post that it was the most intellectual, perfect science fiction show with no imperfections whatsoever.
Why don't you FIND somebody who hasn't watch TOS, then read him that post and come back with some yea/nay intel?

When folks say something without substantiation, they often don't know anything. When folks DO substantiate, there's always some other reason for SOME folks to disregard the content.
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Old November 1 2008, 05:27 AM   #342
GodThingFormerly
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Re: Empire Magazine pics!

Brutal Strudel wrote: View Post
Do you really want a board of non-stop "squeeeeeee"?
I do invariably squeal like a pig every time I read the latest utterances by Abrams et al on ST:XI.

TGT
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Old November 1 2008, 05:39 AM   #343
Brutal Strudel
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Re: Empire Magazine pics!

trevanian wrote: View Post
SalvorHardin wrote: View Post
The God Thing wrote: View Post
So, ultimately, the question comes down to whose ideas are you going to liberate? Gene Roddenberry pilfered concepts from several of the leading hard (or at least firm) LitSF writers and spaceflight theorists of the day while J.J. Abrams appears to be retrofitting the plotline from The Terminator into Star Wars. I know which creative approach I would have preferred.

TGT
Right...If someone had not actually watched TOS they'd think by reading your post that it was the most intellectual, perfect science fiction show with no imperfections whatsoever.
Why don't you FIND somebody who hasn't watch TOS, then read him that post and come back with some yea/nay intel?

When folks say something without substantiation, they often don't know anything. When folks DO substantiate, there's always some other reason for SOME folks to disregard the content.
You noticed that, too, huh?

The God Thing wrote: View Post
Brutal Strudel wrote: View Post
Do you really want a board of non-stop "squeeeeeee"?
I do invariably squeal like a pig every time I read the latest utterances by Abrams et al on ST:XI.

TGT
So your childhood is Ned Beatty?
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Old November 1 2008, 05:43 AM   #344
xortex
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Re: Empire Magazine pics!

The God Thing wrote: View Post
Brutal Strudel wrote: View Post
Do you really want a board of non-stop "squeeeeeee"?
I do invariably squeal like a pig every time I read the latest utterances by Abrams et al on ST:XI.

TGT
I personally can't wait for the remake of Forbidden Planet to come out. wait a minute.
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Old November 1 2008, 06:06 AM   #345
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Re: Empire Magazine pics!

The God Thing wrote: View Post
Brutal Strudel wrote: View Post
Do you really want a board of non-stop "squeeeeeee"?
I do invariably squeal like a pig every time I read the latest utterances by Abrams et al on ST:XI.

TGT

Well, I always knew you had a pretty mouth, TGT.
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