ST XI ships

[Captain Robert April]

Harry Knowles and Kevin Smith are more of Star Wars guys, so their assessments can probably be taken with a grain of salt (not saying they're lying, just that their accuracy may be in question). Others, we can't be sure just what they saw when they made their glowing comments, and besides, they all signed that damn NDA. It's debatable whether they can even confirm whether or not the bridge we're picking over is the same set they saw.

Regardless of how well this movie turns out, I think we're gonna have to have a nice long chat with JJ about the subject of veils of secrecy and the effects on the expectations of the fan base.

[Timo]

Saavik was wearing the red undershirt of a cadet in TWOK, though she'd switched to command white in TSFS. She was also taking the Kobayashi Maru simulation, a training exercise for cadets, for what was clearly her first time.

But that's all pure speculation. Nowhere in the movie is it said that red would be a cadet color, and indeed the commissioned officers like Saavik wearing it disproves that idea. Saavik is not a cadet by any observable standard: she holds commission, and she is addressed to as Lieutenant and never as Cadet.

Nor is it established that the simulation would be for undergraduates only. Instead, it's established to be an optional element, since the commissioned line officer Spock never took it.

As for Nog, he entered the Academy in 2372, and was assigned to DS9 for sophomore-year field training in 2373. He was then given a field commission to ensign in 2374 and promoted to lieutenant at the end of 2375 -- after technically having less than two years' worth of actual Academy training.

Right.

He never graduated.

Not right. He got his commission, and there is no indication he wouldn't have graduated. He simply got handed his papers on an accelerated schedule thanks to the war; certainly there is no indication that he ever went back to finish his studies!

In "Favor the Bold", Nog simply says "they made me an Ensign", which is established to be an unusual move, but is never established to be a pre-graduation one.

I rather worry whether modern Trek makers will look at what was intended, or at what was interpreted, or at what was the sometimes compromised result of the two. There is no need in the current material to think that Starfleet would give commissions to undergraduates, but there are a few fateful passages in the backstage/paraphernalia books that confuse the issue...

Timo Saloniemi

[Ronald Held]

How much does he Really care about those of us who post here?

[Dukhat]

Nothing. They care nothing about what people say here. They've even made statements saying that the biggest mistake they ever made was listening to what the fanboys on internet forums are saying. And they're right.

Captain Robert April wrote:

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Regardless of how well this movie turns out, I think we're gonna have to have a nice long chat with JJ about the subject of veils of secrecy and the effects on the expectations of the fan base.

Yeah, good luck with that. Unless you happen to have JJ's cellphone number or home address, the chances that you or anyone else here will contact him are about as small as you actually making a positive post about the new movie.

[Captain Robert April]

Some kindhearted soul managed to piece this together....



Any guesses as to the size of this monster?

[Timo]

Not from this vantage point, not really. We don't see any scale-establishing features here. The "deck structure" visible through the hole at the bow could represent three decks, or one, or seven. The relationship of bridge interiors and exteriors is no clearer here than it has been in previous Treks. And I can't really spot any welders on that hull that I could use as scaling references - only crouching ones, or figures I can't swear are man-sized humanoids at all.

I'm hoping the ship is still roughly 300 meters long, give or take a few dozen. Preferably give, as the classic designer/backstage/fan conceptions of the ship have always tended to be a bit on the low side for realism.

Timo Saloniemi

[Ronald Held]

It sure would be nice to have something remain the same, before all of the timeline "tampering"

[ancient]

It suggests to me - and it's easier to tell in the actual video - that the ship is around 150% of its old size of ~1000 ft. In other words, about 1500 ft long. The rim of the saucer seems to be about 2.5-3 decks thick, based on the welder guy on the rim. You can see him in the video, in the still image he just looks like a black dot.

It's hard to tell, but I'd say that down to the bottom of the black port under the bridge is about 2 decks, which lines up pretty good with the 150% guess.

Of course this is not a real image, but a collection of CGI models, so who knows how well they bothered scaling it to begin with.

[Cary L. Brown]

ancient wrote:

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It suggests to me - and it's easier to tell in the actual video - that the ship is around 150% of its old size of ~1000 ft. In other words, about 1500 ft long. The rim of the saucer seems to be about 2.5-3 decks thick, based on the welder guy on the rim. You can see him in the video, in the still image he just looks like a black dot.

It's hard to tell, but I'd say that down to the bottom of the black port under the bridge is about 2 decks, which lines up pretty good with the 150% guess.

Of course this is not a real image, but a collection of CGI models, so who knows how well they bothered scaling it to begin with.

One thing that's very interesting to look at is this image, compared to the image of the Kelvin we see in some of the "official released" images.

In particular, look at the small amount of the nacelle (obscured underneath) and the bridge module. I haven't done a line-by-line breakdown, but the two elements look, to my low-resolution uncalibrated first glance to be identical.

The saucer shape also looks identical, with the exception of the "tier" with the weapons pods in it. I'm referring, in particular, to the shape of the "superstructure" under the bridge, and to the curvature of the saucer cross-section, in particular.

I had someone I know who works at ILM (but is NOT on the Trek team) tell me, a couple of months back, that the ship we saw in the trailer was a "hack" done with elements of the Kelvin. I've never known whether to believe that or not, and I still don't. But what I've seen in these images does tend to support his claim, at least a little bit. Or rather, it doesn't CONTRADICT his claim, which is what I was looking for. If it contradicted it, I'd know for sure. As it is, I still don't. But I'm more inclined to believe it now than I was before.

[Vektor]

I've been saying for a long time that I don't think the Enterprise we saw in the teaser is the same one we'll see in the movie. I also don't think it was shown with any particular regard to scale other than making it look "freakin' huge."

[ancient]

Cary L. Brown wrote:

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One thing that's very interesting to look at is this image, compared to the image of the Kelvin we see in some of the "official released" images.

In particular, look at the small amount of the nacelle (obscured underneath) and the bridge module. I haven't done a line-by-line breakdown, but the two elements look, to my low-resolution uncalibrated first glance to be identical.

The saucer shape also looks identical, with the exception of the "tier" with the weapons pods in it. I'm referring, in particular, to the shape of the "superstructure" under the bridge, and to the curvature of the saucer cross-section, in particular.

I had someone I know who works at ILM (but is NOT on the Trek team) tell me, a couple of months back, that the ship we saw in the trailer was a "hack" done with elements of the Kelvin. I've never known whether to believe that or not, and I still don't. But what I've seen in these images does tend to support his claim, at least a little bit. Or rather, it doesn't CONTRADICT his claim, which is what I was looking for. If it contradicted it, I'd know for sure. As it is, I still don't. But I'm more inclined to believe it now than I was before.

I had the same thought when I saw the Kelvin. The overall saucer shape looks exactly the same as the kelvin, which doesn't make sense if the ENT is supposed to be much bigger.

Heck, it's even possible that those are the Kelvin's nacelles (well, the one nacelle duplicated) and the Enterprise's will look different.

[Praetor]

Timo wrote:

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This, I guess, is something we just have to interpret differently from now on.

"Obsession" establishes that Garrovick was Kirk's CO from the day he left Academy. Yet other episodes such as "Where No Man" establish that Kirk didn't exactly leave the Academy when graduating, but rather stayed as an instructor till reaching Lieutenant rank. So basically this allows Kirk to have other commanding officers before Garrovick, including Pike on the Enterprise and some other bloke or broad on the Republic.

I still think the simplest way to solve this and the Saavik problem is to say that they both graduated and came back to take the Kobayashi Maru as command school cadets, at which time Kirk also became an instructor. I always interpreted Spock's death line in TWOK about never having taken the Kobayashi Maru as support for the notion that only command school cadets took it. I don't recall mention of any other characters having taken it, and it did seem to be rather special by virtue of the presence of the Enterprise crew in the simulator (even if it was for dramatic purposes.)

I'm also intrigued and heartened by this notion that the Enterprise in the teaser is a hack-job of the Kelvin. I hope it's true. The Koernerprise (which I have long been critical of) keeps looking better and better compared to that monster in the teaser with it's jet turbines and ram intakes in place of radiator fins. Oy!

[Captain Robert April]

This look about right?

[starburst]

If the previous intepratation of the Teaser ship is right that looks scaled about right

I for one am hoping the teaser wasnt accurate, I do like the conjecture presented by that design but Im hoping its more in keeping with the originals size...although scaling up could fix some of the problems people have had in terms of theorising how to fit the required number of crew quarters into the ship in the past lol

[Herkimer Jitty]

Meh. Scale it up. I love seeing the fans squirm