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Old October 21 2008, 09:47 AM   #76
JuanBolio
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Re: ST XI ships

I'm not worried about a window breaking, and I admit that its possible to rig a piece of transparent material so that it will admit visible light but block out the hard stuff, though it would be easier to just not have a window in the first place.

However - light at ANY wavelength can be deadly if its intense enough. Lasers, nearby stars or photon torpedo blasts - any of these things can be real bad news for anyone standing by a window. Transparency has risks. Might be acceptable for a corridor or a rec room, but the bridge? Wouldn't be my first design choice.
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Old October 21 2008, 10:53 AM   #77
Timo
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Re: ST XI ships

Fair enough. Although I guess the windows do have an adaptive filter function, allowing prominent sets like Ten Forward to bask in intense starlight to mood-building rather than health-jeopardizing effect...

Regarding the Kelvin's looks, I'm wondering what folks around here think of the idea that this was the "real" looks of the entire Baton Rouge generation of ships?

That is, these flat saucers with flat bridges would have been what came before the TOS saucers, but after the ENT saucers, in a sort of standardized tradition that is evident in the later years (in how the Excelsior kitbashes and the Galaxy kitbashes share a saucer aesthetic). The first batches of Saladin and Hermes ships, dating back to the 2220s in fanfic, would have had this look - and the look given in Star Fleet Technical Manual would be only for the most modern standard, just like it is in the case of the Constitution class.

The dimensions don't seem all that out of place, at any rate. The Kelvin could either be a close stablemate, or indeed even a Saladin that was modified with a second nacelle at some point, considering the suggestive registry. Nicely enough, not only the Baton Rouge but also the Detroyat destroyer that also dates back to that era has the flat saucer and flat bridge look to begin with.

All the ships back then might have had these early, primitive nacelles that had huge ramscoop bulges and streamlined intercooler fins. Nacelle swapping would be a natural and logical way to upgrade the designs later on. Saucers in turn might be equally naturally bulged in the refits because more internal volume was needed, all this eventually resulting in the TOS/FJ style.

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Old October 21 2008, 12:37 PM   #78
EJD1984
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Re: ST XI ships

JuanBOOlio wrote: View Post
Captain Robert April wrote: View Post
So why even call it Star Trek? Why not just create a new show out of whole cloth?
Because with Star Trek you already have so much to work with - great characters, ships, aliens, exciting universe, name recognition, and a devoted fanbase. They updated the look of a pre-TOS bridge, and you're claiming that the design aesthetic sets this movie totally apart from all previous Trek continuity. That, sir, is illogical.

I'd be more worried about the fact that all the old crew characters seem to be about the same age and on the same ship at the same time at least a decade before TOS, in which they were all different ranks and ages. Fret about that, not the bridge update, if you're worried about canon.

Christopher wrote: View Post
EJD1984 wrote: View Post
1. Bridge: I seriously doubt that there would be a large window on the bridge, instead of a much safer and practical view screen. Most likely just some surface detailing.
Like this? http://tos.trekcore.com/gallery/albu...thecage011.jpg
That's not a window. Its just a see-through special effect intended to illustrate where on the ship the bridge is. Later shots of the Pike-era ship show a simple white dome there, and interior shots of the bridge show no transparency whatsoever in the ceiling. A window - and especially a skylight - would be a terrible thing to put in your control center with all the x-rays, gamma rays, cosmic rays, and general high-energy badness of space, not to mention blinding starlight and the potential for laser weapons being directed against you.
I think Christopher (and myself) were mainly referring to the surface detailing on the forward section of the bridge of both the Ent. and Kelvin. Though at one point, the bridge dome was referred to as "Translucent", I believe that was quietly dropped, and honestly just wouldn't really serve and practical purpose.

There has been some substantial progress in recent years the field of transparent metals, in a couple hundred years I can see that being fully realized, along with opaque/dimming properties.

Last edited by EJD1984; October 21 2008 at 07:22 PM.
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Old October 21 2008, 02:12 PM   #79
MarianLH
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Re: ST XI ships

Any radiation problem with a bridge window would also apply to any other windows on the ship. Since the ship unambiguously has other windows, logically there must not be a radiation problem.

That said, I've never interpreted that scene in "The Cage" to mean there's actually a window there. Having the camera pass through a solid wall is an established film-making device.


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Old October 21 2008, 03:59 PM   #80
Christopher
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Re: ST XI ships

JuanBOOlio wrote: View Post
Christopher wrote: View Post
EJD1984 wrote: View Post
1. Bridge: I seriously doubt that there would be a large window on the bridge, instead of a much safer and practical view screen. Most likely just some surface detailing.
Like this? http://tos.trekcore.com/gallery/albu...thecage011.jpg
That's not a window. Its just a see-through special effect intended to illustrate where on the ship the bridge is.
Oh. Thank you for explaining that, since I'm only three and a half years old and need to be lectured on the screamingly obvious.

Of course I wasn't talking about the dome. As EJD1984 said, I was referring to the detail on the front of the bridge module, analogous to the detail in the equivalent position on the Kelvin.
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Old October 21 2008, 08:29 PM   #81
Cmdr. Roaktar
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Re: ST XI ships

I was informed by one of the visual effects guys who worked on the film that the eyeball on top of the ship is in fact the deflector dish and that this is a single nacelled vessel. Also, the Enterprise as seen in this film has the domes over the engines.
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Old October 21 2008, 08:33 PM   #82
Dukhat
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Re: ST XI ships

Care to tell us how you were able to get such privileged information? And who your source is?
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Old October 21 2008, 08:38 PM   #83
Saul
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Re: ST XI ships

Christopher wrote: View Post
JuanBOOlio wrote: View Post
That's not a window. Its just a see-through special effect intended to illustrate where on the ship the bridge is.
Oh. Thank you for explaining that, since I'm only three and a half years old and need to be lectured on the screamingly obvious.

Of course I wasn't talking about the dome. As EJD1984 said, I was referring to the detail on the front of the bridge module, analogous to the detail in the equivalent position on the Kelvin.
Well, do onto others as you want done onto you
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Old October 21 2008, 08:43 PM   #84
Cmdr. Roaktar
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Re: ST XI ships

I figured someone would ask. The information is not priviliged, you just have to know who to ask. Due to the NDA situation I don't want to give his name. I will say this, if you look hard enough you'll find him. He likes physical as well as CG models and frequents those boards. I know it's not much, I really don't want to be the one to get this guy in trouble. I thought you guys might want to know. If you don't believe me that's fine, we'll all know for sure in seven months and counting.
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Old October 21 2008, 09:12 PM   #85
JuanBolio
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Re: ST XI ships

Christopher wrote: View Post
Oh. Thank you for explaining that, since I'm only three and a half years old and need to be lectured on the screamingly obvious.
*shrugs* I don't know you, and I've seen people make that mistake before.

Of course I wasn't talking about the dome. As EJD1984 said, I was referring to the detail on the front of the bridge module, analogous to the detail in the equivalent position on the Kelvin.
I see what you mean, but there's nothing that makes it stand out as a window as opposed to just a surface detail. Its not transparent that we can see, and its a different size and shape than the viewscreen inside the bridge.
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Old October 21 2008, 10:03 PM   #86
Christopher
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Re: ST XI ships

I wasn't saying it was a window, just saying that the design features were similar, perhaps intentionally.
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Old October 21 2008, 10:07 PM   #87
JuanBolio
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Re: ST XI ships

Perhaps.
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Old October 21 2008, 11:46 PM   #88
shipfisher
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Re: ST XI ships

Cmdr. Roaktar wrote: View Post
I was informed by one of the visual effects guys who worked on the film that the eyeball on top of the ship is in fact the deflector dish and that this is a single nacelled vessel. Also, the Enterprise as seen in this film has the domes over the engines.
Thanks for the inside info mate. It puts paid to my over/under nacelle theory. I guess Mr. Knowles over at AICN really can't tell the difference between a nacelle and a deflector pod/secondary hull.

I'd say that Franz Joseph and his Hermes/Saladin class ships have had a hat (with a big eye on top) tipped to them.
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Old October 21 2008, 11:50 PM   #89
Ronald Held
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Re: ST XI ships

Do people think the windows are more critical a deviation than the interior of the bridge or the command crew seeming to be roughly the same age?
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Old October 22 2008, 12:19 AM   #90
JuanBolio
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Re: ST XI ships

Ronald Held wrote: View Post
Do people think the windows are more critical a deviation than the interior of the bridge or the command crew seeming to be roughly the same age?
No, that definitely bothers me more, but I'm willing to accept it if its presented well. I have a hard time believing that these people all graduated together - some of them before Kirk, maybe - and yet years later he's in command and many of them are still junior officers. We know Kirk was a Wunderkind, but still...
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