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Trek Literature "...Good words. That's where ideas begin."

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Old September 21 2008, 11:51 PM   #1
Lindley
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Fearful Symmetry logic question

I've just started Fearful Symmetry, so no spoilers for the book please. This is purely a tech issue.

On page 58 of Side 1, Nog says that Smiley's transporter gizmo can't be replicated because none of their scanners have the requisite quantum resolution to build a working one.

Sooo......how did it get through the transporter in the first place from the Mirror Universe?

On another note, they claim the device recreates the same conditions that caused Kirk's accident, yet the Intendent claimed in "Crossover" that all transporters on their side had been redesigned so that particular event could never cause the problem again. Either Smiley un-redesigned a few, or someone's got something wrong somewhere.
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Old September 22 2008, 12:26 AM   #2
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Re: Fearful Symmetry logic question

Lindley wrote: View Post
On page 58 of Side 1, Nog says that Smiley's transporter gizmo can't be replicated because none of their scanners have the requisite quantum resolution to build a working one.

Sooo......how did it get through the transporter in the first place from the Mirror Universe?
Perhaps by working in tandem with the sending transporter in the MU?

On another note, they claim the device recreates the same conditions that caused Kirk's accident, yet the Intendent claimed in "Crossover" that all transporters on their side had been redesigned so that particular event could never cause the problem again. Either Smiley un-redesigned a few, or someone's got something wrong somewhere.
The device's design could compensate for the transporter adjustments. I.e. a transporter can't interact with a naturally occurring ion storm in order to create the timeline jump, but Smiley's device is calibrated to create the same effect in a redesigned transporter. So it's recreating the same conditions with the necessary extra tweaks to cancel out the change in the transporters.
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Old September 22 2008, 01:25 AM   #3
Lindley
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Re: Fearful Symmetry logic question

Christopher wrote: View Post
Lindley wrote: View Post
On page 58 of Side 1, Nog says that Smiley's transporter gizmo can't be replicated because none of their scanners have the requisite quantum resolution to build a working one.

Sooo......how did it get through the transporter in the first place from the Mirror Universe?
Perhaps by working in tandem with the sending transporter in the MU?
Oh, so MU transporters have more resolution than ours? I suppose that might make some sense. However, it would imply that Smiley had to build a new gizmo for each and every trip, because they'd be fried on the way back.
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Old September 22 2008, 01:56 AM   #4
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Re: Fearful Symmetry logic question

Or perhaps the device links two transporters, one in each universe, and uses the combined "parallax" from both their scanners to get a higher resolution than either one can by itself.

Either that or a wizard did it.
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Old September 22 2008, 03:02 AM   #5
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Re: Fearful Symmetry logic question

[ Fry ]

Magic. Got it.

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Old September 22 2008, 03:54 AM   #6
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Re: Fearful Symmetry logic question

Isn't there a precedent for transporters being able to beam things that can't be replicated, as nonsensical as that seems? I think latinum can be transported...
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Old September 22 2008, 03:56 AM   #7
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Re: Fearful Symmetry logic question

Actually, I'm sure there is some sort of Heisenberg principal you could apply----"We can move it around, but we can't duplicate it," or something to that effect.

Perhaps by working in tandem with the sending transporter in the MU?
Except that would require communication between universes prior to the transport beginning, and Nog just said they couldn't do that before.
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Old September 22 2008, 04:09 AM   #8
LightningStorm
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Re: Fearful Symmetry logic question

I think this is where you just say "Stop it! You're thinking too hard, just enjoy the plot devices and don't ask questions."
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Old September 22 2008, 04:13 AM   #9
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Re: Fearful Symmetry logic question

Usually, yeah, but when apparent contradictions just jump off the page----particularly in a book which so heavily exploits discrepancies in DS9 episodes----one simply must comment.

Like that time one of the authors (maybe KRAD or DRG3? I don't recall) thought a logarithmic progression was faster than exponential. That sort of thing can't simply slip by uncommented.
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Old September 22 2008, 07:30 AM   #10
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Re: Fearful Symmetry logic question

that was KRAD
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Old September 22 2008, 02:44 PM   #11
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Re: Fearful Symmetry logic question

Steve Mollmann wrote: View Post
Isn't there a precedent for transporters being able to beam things that can't be replicated, as nonsensical as that seems? I think latinum can be transported...
It's not nonsensical, because it's the difference between transmission and storage, between dynamic and static. It's the same principle whereby a broadcast TV signal can have higher resolution than a videotape recording of same (at least in analog) -- or the same principle whereby a length of open pipe can pass more water through it than can be stored in a bucket of the same dimensions.
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Old September 23 2008, 12:03 AM   #12
Stevil2001
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Re: Fearful Symmetry logic question

Christopher wrote: View Post
Steve Mollmann wrote: View Post
Isn't there a precedent for transporters being able to beam things that can't be replicated, as nonsensical as that seems? I think latinum can be transported...
It's not nonsensical, because it's the difference between transmission and storage, between dynamic and static. It's the same principle whereby a broadcast TV signal can have higher resolution than a videotape recording of same (at least in analog) -- or the same principle whereby a length of open pipe can pass more water through it than can be stored in a bucket of the same dimensions.
But if it's been digitally converted into information-- which it is for transport-- then why couldn't that pattern be retained and replicated?
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Old September 23 2008, 12:22 AM   #13
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Re: Fearful Symmetry logic question

Steve Mollmann wrote: View Post
But if it's been digitally converted into information-- which it is for transport-- then why couldn't that pattern be retained and replicated?
Because story logic forbids it. If any transporter pattern could be stored with perfect resolution, then any character could be cloned or resurrected with the touch of a button, and that would make it impossible to tell meaningful stories. So the rules of the universe require that transporter memory be a volatile, temporary thing at best.

Besides, who says it's digital? It's quantum information we're talking about, and that's not something that can really be encoded with simple 1's and 0's. A transporter beam is something that reads the quantum state of matter and encodes it in the energy matrix of the beam itself -- which actually sounds more like analog storage to me.
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Old September 23 2008, 02:16 AM   #14
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Re: Fearful Symmetry logic question

Well obviously story logic forbids it. You didn't object to my assertion on story logic grounds, though.
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Old September 23 2008, 02:37 AM   #15
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Re: Fearful Symmetry logic question

Ultimately, even the best technobabble explanation is just an exercise in rationalizing story logic. And when technobabble fails, you just have to throw up your hands and say "It's in the script." Or "A wizard did it."
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