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Old March 26 2014, 09:24 PM   #1
Isolinear
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Relativity makes no sense

I watched Relativity again yesterday, and I realized the plot makes no sense whatsoever.

SPOILERS ahead:
....
....
....

There are 4 timeframes in the episode:
1. Voyager in drydock
2. Kazon attack
3. Present
4. The Future.

The episode starts in drydock with Seven trying to locate the Weapon. She finds it, but it is "out of phase" because it is the wrong timeframe. She communicates the location (Deck 4, Section 39) to Braxton. Then she's killed during transport to the Future. I will call her Seven-1.

Braxton has to recruit her again from the Present. We see Seven in the hour leading up to Voyager's destruction. There are temporal distortions. Seven and B'Elanna locate the weapon. Some time after that, Seven is beamed to the Future. I will call her Seven-2.

NOW WAIT A MINUTE!!!!! If Present-Seven already knows the location of the weapon, why did the previous Seven (Seven-1) try to locate it in the first place?
And when Braxton briefs Seven-2 on the weapon, why doesn't she say: "Hey wait, I saw that thing with B'Elanna just minutes ago!" ????

Braxton informs Seven-2 that the weapon was planted in timeframe 2, a Kazon attack. Then she's transported to that timeframe and confirms "There's no sign of the weapon".

NOW WAIT A MINUTE!!!!!! If the weapon is not there because it hasn't been planted yet, then why WAS it there in timeframe-1 (Drydock). If it is visible, but out of phase, in timeframe-1 and 3, why is it suddenly NOT visible in timeframe-2?!? Shouldn't it be there as well, but out of phase until planted?

Now Janeway and Seven-2 interrupt Braxton-2 while he's planting the weapon. He escapes with the weapon to timeframe-1 and later to timeframe-3, where Seven-3 (timeframe-3 Seven) finally takes the weapon from Braxton-2. Before he had the chance to plant it!!!! Janeway is recruited to the Future...

NOW WAIT A MINUTE!!!!! The weapon was NOT planted in the Kazon attack because Janeway and Seven-2 just prevented that. Seven-3 has the weapon and Braxton-2 is in custody in the future.
THEN WHY is Janeway sent back to trimeframe-2 to take the weapon from him AGAIN???? Isn't that unnecessary at that point?

I won't start about the "reintegration" of the multiple Sevens. What does that even mean?!?
This episode makes no sense! To quote a certain blonde from Galaxy Quest: "This episode was badly written!!!!"

Last edited by Isolinear; March 26 2014 at 10:52 PM.
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Old March 26 2014, 09:36 PM   #2
JirinPanthosa
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Re: Relativity makes no sense

I am SHOCKED, SHOCKED there is discontinuity in a time travel episode!
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Old March 26 2014, 09:49 PM   #3
Melakon
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Re: Relativity makes no sense

I think this is the one Voyager episode I still haven't seen. Some day...
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Old March 26 2014, 10:02 PM   #4
Seven of Five
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Re: Relativity makes no sense

I used to hate this episode when I first saw it, but years later I've grown a heavy appreciation for it. I agree that it makes no sense, but they seem to know it, so that's half the fun.

Endgame bugged me more with a lack of Temporal Policing. Are Starfleet less bothered with timeline hijinks if it helps them into a more powerful position?
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Old March 26 2014, 10:17 PM   #5
King Daniel Into Darkness
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Re: Relativity makes no sense

I'd have to rewatch it to make any sense of what Isolinear is talking about, but I'd like to say I have very fond memories of this episode. Even if it made questionable sense.

I do know that "re-integrating" is using the transporter to merge temporal duplicates back into a single being - and that in Braxton's case it's extremely unethical of them to merge the sane version of him in the present with a nutty version from the future, especially since the actions taken in the present have prevented the present version from ever becoming that future self and committing the crime.

I have a headache...
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Old March 26 2014, 10:19 PM   #6
JarodRussell
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Re: Relativity makes no sense

Any sort of system in which you get punished for crimes you haven't even committed yet, is terror.
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Old March 26 2014, 10:22 PM   #7
MacLeod
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Re: Relativity makes no sense

Best not to over think time travel stories.
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Old March 26 2014, 10:28 PM   #8
Melakon
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Re: Relativity makes no sense

JarodRussell wrote: View Post
Any sort of system in which you get punished for crimes you haven't even committed yet, is terror.
That's the whole premise of Minority Report.
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Old March 26 2014, 10:48 PM   #9
Isolinear
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Re: Relativity makes no sense

King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post
I'd have to rewatch it to make any sense of what Isolinear is talking about. [...]
I have a headache...
Yeah, it's a bit wordy for people who haven't seen the episode in a while. Summary:

1. Seven is trying to find a weapon, when she already knows where the thing is.
2. The weapon is missing in one timeframe, after the story told us the weapon is visible in ALL timeframes.
3. Janeway is sent on a mission to prevent something that has already been prevented.


Interesting note for Point 2. There was a similar mistake in "All Good Things...". In that episode they had that anomaly that grew bigger the further it got back in time. Problem was: it was missing in a timeframe when it logically should have been there already. (the future)
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Old March 26 2014, 11:08 PM   #10
JirinPanthosa
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Re: Relativity makes no sense

I think I know why the future turns a blind eye to episodes like Timeless and Endgame.

You see, these people on the Relativity are huge fantasy geeks, they love fiction stemming from the simpler days of the 24th century when technology had not yet run amok. So they all have participated in holo-fiction involving the most famous crews from that time period. If they let Voyager get destroyed, then it means their favorite holo-novel had never been written, and they will never get to write elaborate romance scenarios around their favorite characters ever again.

Letting Voyager get destroyed would ruin their holo-fanfic.
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Old March 26 2014, 11:29 PM   #11
E-DUB
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Re: Relativity makes no sense

One of the DTI novels explains that reintegration was pioneered by Spock during the trip to the 20th century when he did it with Capt. Christopher and the security guard.
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Old March 26 2014, 11:39 PM   #12
LMFAOschwarz
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Re: Relativity makes no sense

I was only a sporadic Voyager viewer in its first run, and this just happens to be one of the ones I saw. The only thing I really remember noticing is just how great Seven/Ryan looked in a Starfleet uniform!
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Old March 26 2014, 11:47 PM   #13
hux
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Re: Relativity makes no sense

Timey whimey stuff....always a laugh

I think i can (attempt) to answer query 2. The time weapon can be seen in all timeframes (cos it's a time weapon) but it only physically exists in one timeframe so when Seven says she can't see it, she simply means it isn't physically there just like in timeframe 1 (but she can see it in terms of it's timey whimey presence in that particular location)
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Old March 27 2014, 01:09 AM   #14
Isolinear
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Re: Relativity makes no sense

hux wrote: View Post
I think i can (attempt) to answer query 2. The time weapon can be seen in all timeframes (cos it's a time weapon) but it only physically exists in one timeframe so when Seven says she can't see it, she simply means it isn't physically there just like in timeframe 1 (but she can see it in terms of it's timey whimey presence in that particular location)
Nope. That interpretation could have worked, but unfortunately there's a greenish "seven-vision" shot that shows no sign of the weapon where there was one in a similar shot in timeframe-1.
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Old March 27 2014, 01:18 AM   #15
Guy Gardener
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Re: Relativity makes no sense

Melakon wrote: View Post
JarodRussell wrote: View Post
Any sort of system in which you get punished for crimes you haven't even committed yet, is terror.
That's the whole premise of Minority Report.
The many Braxtons were going to be integrated, so by the time the innocent one faced trial, if he faced trial, he would have been a docile component of a Tuivix composite constructed from at least three Braxtons, a majority of which were culpable for the crimes "they" were accused of.
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