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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies I-X

Star Trek Movies I-X Discuss the first ten big screen outings in this forum!

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Old October 7 2008, 10:18 PM   #76
Maurice
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Re: "Planet of the Titans" Revisited


THE STARSHIP ENTERPRISE Concept for the interior of the Enterprise, including the control center and bridge.



'This is my concept for the "Super Brain" -- like a giant machine on an alien planet. You can see the scale by the size of the humans." -- Ken Adam
These are photos, not scans, so I apologize for the quality. I took photos of the meditation chamber and Enterprise sketches, but they came out blurry.
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Old October 8 2008, 01:15 AM   #77
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Re: "Planet of the Titans" Revisited

These are the voyages of the starship Habitrail...
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Old October 8 2008, 01:52 AM   #78
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Re: "Planet of the Titans" Revisited

Yeah, that's a kneejerk response that would be valid, but then if you look at Adam's next project, MOONRAKER, you can see this kind of thing executed on a smaller scale, and quite handsomely too (fx & art direction are about the only saving graces in that steaming mess imo.)

And if you look at his earlier bond, SPY WHO LOVED ME, you'll see a seagoing city that looks to be equpped with warp engines, predating his trek involvement.
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Old October 8 2008, 10:12 AM   #79
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Re: "Planet of the Titans" Revisited

I think what a lot of people don't understand is that sketches like these are rough and designed to evoke a sense of the feel for the set or object, a direction, rather than the details. I can see what Adam was going for, even though one can argue it's a pretty inefficient use of space.
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Old October 8 2008, 01:29 PM   #80
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Re: "Planet of the Titans" Revisited

The wasted space issue is huge (no pun intended), but Gerrold cited the same thing about engineering in TOS, that life support shouldn't ever be an issue when you've got all this wasted space.

Adam was designing from Kaufmann and the writers more than GR, and Kaufmann wanted to see a shot where you looked down from (or through) the bridge to see the rest of the ship in one take. I never understood how that'd be possible till I saw this rendering. So I'm sure it made the director happy.
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Old October 9 2008, 06:16 AM   #81
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Re: "Planet of the Titans" Revisited

Over at Sci-Fi meshes a fella is putting together his version of the Ken Adams Enterprise design:
http://www.scifi-meshes.com/forums/3...prototype.html
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Old October 9 2008, 09:28 AM   #82
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Re: "Planet of the Titans" Revisited

middyseafort wrote: View Post
Over at Sci-Fi meshes a fella is putting together his version of the Ken Adams Enterprise design:
Yeah, but you can't see anything without an account.

Anyway, that 3D model (while nice work) is just a very loose takeoff on the Titans concept, and doesn't follow either Adam nor McQuarrie's drawings in any real way, although it leans towards the McQuarrie ultra-wide version more than any of Adam's sketches, which tend to lean towards the faster looking high-nacelled idea here (excuse the fuzziness):

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Last edited by Maurice Navidad; October 9 2008 at 09:53 AM.
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Old October 9 2008, 10:56 AM   #83
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Re: "Planet of the Titans" Revisited

Thanks very much guys for these very interesting pictures. Love the bridge design. The wasted space reminds me of something from Star Wars.
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Old October 9 2008, 02:38 PM   #84
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Re: "Planet of the Titans" Revisited

Come to think of it, there is a certain logic to a ship design with that much empty space. If the ship is hulled by meteoroids, or by enemy fire, then the more empty space you have, the lower the probability of a populated section being hit. In space, with no air resistance to worry about, there's no cost to having the ship's volume be larger than it has to.

Of course, the empty space would then have to be in vacuum, so that the heat and shock of the impact would not be transmitted to populated sections, and so that no air would be lost from the hull penetration. And that's definitely not what we're seeing in that Adam sketch. Also, it's a moot point when you have magic deflector shields that function as hull armor.
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Old October 9 2008, 03:19 PM   #85
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Re: "Planet of the Titans" Revisited

Christopher wrote: View Post
Come to think of it, there is a certain logic to a ship design with that much empty space. If the ship is hulled by meteoroids, or by enemy fire, then the more empty space you have, the lower the probability of a populated section being hit. In space, with no air resistance to worry about, there's no cost to having the ship's volume be larger than it has to.
Except for the increased mass penalty, which would be an issue if the impulse engines function as Newtonian rockets. A minimized exterior surface area would also provide statistical protection from natural hazards as well as presenting a smaller target to the enemy during combat.

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Old October 9 2008, 07:23 PM   #86
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Re: "Planet of the Titans" Revisited

The God Thing wrote: View Post
Except for the increased mass penalty, which would be an issue if the impulse engines function as Newtonian rockets.
There's no mass penalty, since it's the same mass spread out over a larger volume. If the space between inhabited sections is in vacuum, there's no extra mass of atmosphere. And the surrounding hull would be fairly thin and a minor contribution to the overall mass. If, indeed, there is a surrounding hull. An opened-up design like this might dispense with one, and look something like the ancient alien ship from TAS: "Beyond the Farthest Star," say.

A minimized exterior surface area would also provide statistical protection from natural hazards as well as presenting a smaller target to the enemy during combat.
Not if the interior is mostly empty space. As I said, in that case, the odds of a meteroid or projectile/missile striking an inhabited portion of the ship are lowered, and if the space is in vacuum, the damage isn't transmitted beyond the immediate points of impact. Such a projectile (or rather the expanding cloud of plasma resulting after it strikes the hull and vaporizes) would simply travel through the ship in a straight line and out the other side, and if there were no populated/pressurized sections in its path, it would only damage the hull and maybe a few support bulkheads.

This was a basic part of the combat protocols they used on Gene Roddenberry's Andromeda, according to the online discussions of the show's producers and the JPL propulsion engineer who was their scientific adviser, although it didn't come out well in the show itself. Since GRA was (originally) a hard-SF universe in which fields of force couldn't magically function like armor, there was simply no reliable way to deflect kinetic warheads incoming at relativistic speeds, not if they had thrusters that could correct against a repulsive force. Anything that hit the ship would pass straight through and out the other side. So the only defense was statistical: distribute the crew throughout the enormous volume of the ship, dump the atmosphere from every unoccupied section into space, and hope that most of the crew survived.
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Old October 10 2008, 02:31 PM   #87
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Re: "Planet of the Titans" Revisited

Christopher wrote: View Post
I almost wept upon reading Kaufman's statement about wanting to take ST movies in an adult direction that dealt with big questions and wonders and sexuality, because that's what ST was supposed to be all along. I regret that the studio forced TMP to be G-rated and that the sequels ended up being more in the lowbrow action-adventure vein. I would've loved to instead have an ST film franchise that was acclaimed for its sophisticated, thought-provoking, adult-oriented storytelling.
Man, I hear you on that, Chris. TMP, for all it's flaws, was at least trying to move in that direction. But the studio then went with Meyer and Bennet's cartoonization of Trek and rest, as they say, is the sad history. At least of the film part of the franchise.
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Old December 13 2009, 05:12 PM   #88
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Re: "Planet of the Titans" Revisited

Some fascinating production design sketches for POTT. IMHO 'Planet of the Titans' would have been a superior film to what STTMP was thematically and stylistically. I still like STTMP for many reasons, if not for the over use of cloud shots and the similarity to TOS 'The Changeling' episode.

In reference to Shigeta as Nogura, and Sulu, the fan film trailer 'STA: A Time to Heal' is finally online.

Register, log in, and follow the links section here:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/StarTrekAxiom/
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Old December 13 2009, 09:21 PM   #89
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Re: "Planet of the Titans" Revisited

Ryann866 wrote: View Post
I've always been interested in these "lost Trek" stories -- especially the development of the scripts that eventually became TMP.

A friend's father is Jerry Isenberg, who was assigned as the producer of Planet of The Titans and worked with GR and the writers during that period. I'm going to ask him if he still has a dusty script lying around somewhere... no promises though...
Hey, so I guess nothing ever panned out?

And you know, as much as I liiked TMP, I think this would have made a cool movie. I don't like the idea of Kirk disappearing for half the movie or the Enterprise redesign (although it is interesting and kinda cool) but at least it isn't a retread of a TV episode. And it seems like it would have had a cinematic scope and feel to it, without resorting to the usual "Earth is gonna be destroyed" thing.

I hope a screenplay surfaces someday, because I'd love to give it a read.
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Old December 14 2009, 12:02 AM   #90
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Re: "Planet of the Titans" Revisited

Thanks for the sketches of Ralph's. I still have my 'Star Wars Sketchbooks' and the great preproduction paintings from SW and Empire. I recall the painting of the proposed Enterprise and the asteroid base all the way back in an old Starlog I also still have. I did not know this Adam was in fact the one who is to be credited with the would-be 1701 design.Hmm. I did read about 'Planet OF the Titans' at wikipedia some time back, but had never heard of that project before.From the back, the craft above the moon or whatever in the Enterprise series intro kind of reminded me of that design....
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