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Trek Literature "...Good words. That's where ideas begin."

View Poll Results: Grade "Star Trek: Destiny: Gods of Night"
Excellent 105 69.08%
Above Average 35 23.03%
Average 8 5.26%
Below Average 2 1.32%
Poor 2 1.32%
Voters: 152. You may not vote on this poll

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Old September 30 2008, 05:47 AM   #61
Julio Angel Ortiz
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Re: Star Trek: Destiny: Gods of Night - SPOILER Thread

Review posted on my site: http://julioangelortiz.livejournal.com/291632.html

In short: a winner, long on character and not so heavy on the action side of things. The Caeliar make a great race, and Mack really captures the styles of each series. Dax's story is probably the weakest of the four ongoing threads, but there's plenty more story to come, so it is forgivable.

Rating: A-
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Old September 30 2008, 07:04 AM   #62
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Re: Star Trek: Destiny: Gods of Night - SPOILER Thread

Sisko_is_my_captain wrote: View Post
LOL Does anyone else thing that their nanotech will form the basis for the Borg's beginning in the far and distant past in the Delta quadrant? I was glad, in a sense, to see Erica 'alive' in the 24th century, but I've got to wonder if they've Grigari-ed her all up to keep her goin'. I hope not.
That would be interesting, to finally have an origin of the Borg.

I wonder if that isn't really Hernandez. One of the Titan crew members' tricorders reads her as a Caeliar like the others, so I wonder if this isn't a ploy of some kind. Although, their technology seemed so advanced in 2168 that they might have already had the ability to essentially become immortal. I guess they might feel like they have to keep her alive, considering their extremely strict social laws against the death of other sentient beings. I suppose that could also include preventing natural death as well, but that is hard to tell from what was presented in 'Gods of Night'. Hopefully we will have a firm answer in the next book.
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Old September 30 2008, 07:08 AM   #63
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Re: Star Trek: Destiny: Gods of Night - SPOILER Thread

I loved this book. I thought that it was really well written and the story had me from the very beginning. I cannot wait to see what happens! I am hoping to see more of the Voyager crew and the Fed President as well in the upcoming books. I am also hoping that more of the DS9 crew will get to show up. If there is one complaint I have, it is how crazy Troi is in this book; I would never have thought that she would have such a hard time dealing with this. It is a terrible thing, but not so much as to put your life at risk. Anyway, brilliant book!
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Old September 30 2008, 07:12 AM   #64
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Re: Star Trek: Destiny: Gods of Night - SPOILER Thread

Enterpriserules wrote: View Post
I loved this book. I thought that it was really well written and the story had me from the very beginning. I cannot wait to see what happens! I am hoping to see more of the Voyager crew and the Fed President as well in the upcoming books. I am also hoping that more of the DS9 crew will get to show up. If there is one complaint I have, it is how crazy Troi is in this book; I would never have thought that she would have such a hard time dealing with this. It is a terrible thing, but not so much as to put your life at risk. Anyway, brilliant book!
I'm pretty sure that we have seen as much as we're going to of the DS9 crew in this trilogy, because I am sure that they still want to leave enough leeway for all of the books that can fit into the four years between the latest DS9 Relaunch book "Fearful Symmetry" and "Gods of Night". For the sake of future authors.
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Old September 30 2008, 08:18 AM   #65
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Re: Star Trek: Destiny: Gods of Night - SPOILER Thread

Sisko_is_my_captain wrote: View Post
I was glad, in a sense, to see Erica 'alive' in the 24th century, but I've got to wonder if they've Grigari-ed her all up to keep her goin'. I hope not.
I've always thought of her as being very grigarious.
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Old September 30 2008, 11:00 AM   #66
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Re: Star Trek: Destiny: Gods of Night - SPOILER Thread

Sisko_is_my_captain;2124537I wrote:
Oh, and Dr. Ree is still awesome.

.

I really am looking forward to Dr Ree eating a Borg.
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Old September 30 2008, 01:46 PM   #67
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Re: Star Trek: Destiny: Gods of Night - SPOILER Thread

Raisor wrote: View Post
"The Arsenal of Freedom" was in the first season, so it would've made less than a year's worth of difference to when Rice got the captaincy. Where do you draw the line? Is six and three-quarters years acceptable but six years unbelievable? If so, why?
Well, we just don't know, do we? We don't really know anything about Rice's career. We don't have a clue about his political connections, inside or outside of Starfleet.
I don't get what that has to do with anything. The only reason I've heard for people objecting to the idea of Ezri being a captain is that it happened "too fast" or "too soon." So the only thing that matters here is elapsed time, pure and simple. Are there prior canonical examples of characters going from ensign to captain in a comparable amount of time? Yes, more than one. Everything else is splitting hairs. If you try to say, "Well, there are reasons why someone could become captain that quickly," then you're making my case for me. If there are reasons why it could happen in Rice's case, there are reasons why it could happen in Ezri's case. So why continue to question it?

Let me ask another way. Why wasn't Ezri XO of the Aventine in the first place? She had the job on Defiant at least for a major mission to the Gamma Quad, and perhaps longer then that (depending on what happens in those "missing" four years.) She's got to have major league political connections, being Dax and all.
There are any number of reasons why someone else might've gotten the nod for XO ahead of Ezri. You yourself brought up political connections; maybe the person who beat her out for the job had such connections, or maybe the original captain brought his/her longtime XO with him/her.

Or maybe she just didn't want the XO job for some reason. Riker was offered three captaincies that he declined because he preferred being Picard's XO.

There are many, many reasons why the situation could validly be as it was. And I still don't understand what the big deal is anyway.

As an aside, is Sisko the only on screen example of a ship's captain not holding the Rank of Captain (aside from short term assignments like Data/Sutherland and Worf & Dax/Defiant)? He was still a Commander when he brings the Defiant to DS9, right?
Technically Kirk was captain of the Enterprise in TWOK/TSFS while holding the rank of admiral. However, the filmmakers had the characters incorrectly refer to him as "Admiral" so as not to confuse the audience. Same with Sisko; if he was in command of a ship, then he was its captain no matter what his rank. An ensign in command of a ship would be properly addressed as "captain." It's confusing because there's a rank of the same name as that title, but that's the way it's supposed to work. Unfortunately, DS9 is the only onscreen Trek production ever to acknowledge that.
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Old September 30 2008, 02:28 PM   #68
Marco Palmieri
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Re: Star Trek: Destiny: Gods of Night - SPOILER Thread

I think the skepticism some readers have expressed about Ezri as a captain is understandable, especially if one is considering her solely in the context of her Season Seven arc on DS9. Most people, after all, remember her as hesitant, awkward, and in over her head.

As far as I'm concerned, Dave did a great job with her as the older, more seasoned, more confident, more mature officer we see in Destiny while still making her completely recognizable as Ezri. But for readers who aren't aware of the character's evolution over the course of the last twenty or so post-TV DS9 novels, or who may not be considering her innate potential as the ninth incarnation of Dax--with all the knowledge and experience that implies--then I can see how even the battlefield promotion described in Gods of Night, five years after the end of the Dominion War, might seem like a strange creative choice.

But I think if one stops to consider all those things, taken as a whole, then Ezri's rise through the ranks isn't quite as odd as it may seem at first glance.

Your mileage may vary.
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Old September 30 2008, 05:17 PM   #69
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Re: Star Trek: Destiny: Gods of Night - SPOILER Thread

Sisko_is_my_captain wrote: View Post
LutherSloan wrote: View Post
I thought it was an interesting (and human) touch to see the conn officer of the doomed USS Ranger actually disobeying the order that was given to send the ship on a kamakaze run.
My thoughts - some of them, anyway:

I also really appreciated this departure from the classical "perfect Starfleet officer" we've seen so frequently in the past (the novels have, in general, been pretty good since around the DS9 relaunch about doing that, IMO).
My thanks to you both. I had much the same thought as I approached that scene. I, too, felt that not every person on every ship was going to be so sanguine about throwing away his/her/its life, especially when it seemed like a futile gesture. For some people, "duty" is not enough to make suicide palatable.

I was especially touched by Admiral Paris's message to Tom. I have to admit, both this scene and the scene on Khitomer after the Ranger's sacrifice brought tears to my eyes. That's something that the Trek novels have rarely accomplished, so kudos to David Mack on those scenes. They were poignant without taking things over the top into cliche.
Again, gracias. I try to remember when I write such scenes that even though we might see these characters for only one scene, their pain and their loss should feel just as real as if they were the stars of our story — because from their perspective, they are the stars of their stories, which are about to end in tragedy.

I also respected the scene between Bev and Geordi where they discussed Picard. I could really see this happening on the series (I was reminded of when the senior staff met in Riker's quarters to discuss 'Picard's' erratic behavior in TNG's Allegiance.) When Picard is starting to make his tried and true followers (and wife) doubt his rationality, you know things are getting bad.
Yes, this ordeal is only just beginning to test Picard's mettle. Wait until you see what I have in store for him in Mere Mortals and Lost Souls...

Riker and Troi had me about to scream. Everything Riker said wasn't going to happen in regards to serving with a spouse is happening. If I was Vale, I'd have been threatening to find a new post if he didn't get his priorities straight (if only to be clear to him how serious I felt the problem was). Of course, there was that 'sisterly hug' that became a somewhat 'lingering hug' between Vale and Riker. I can't imagine Riker would normally ever consider an affair, but with things being so strained with Deanna, who knows - maybe he'll find comfort (at least emotional) from Vale. I rather think that Deanna would consider emotional straying even worse than physical straying, especially as crazy as she's been lately. How would either Riker or Vale even be able to keep their feelings hidden from Deanna anyway? Oh, and Dr. Ree is still awesome.
Well, Troi has been put through the wringer, physically and emotionally. Also, though she might not be aware of it, latent Betazoid gifts might be having a subconscious effect on her conscious decisions, leading to severe confusion and distress....

LutherSloan wrote: View Post
Sisko_is_my_captain wrote: View Post
LOL Does anyone else thing that their nanotech will form the basis for the Borg's beginning in the far and distant past in the Delta quadrant? I was glad, in a sense, to see Erica 'alive' in the 24th century, but I've got to wonder if they've Grigari-ed her all up to keep her goin'. I hope not.
That would be interesting, to finally have an origin of the Borg.

I wonder if that isn't really Hernandez. One of the Titan crew members' tricorders reads her as a Caeliar like the others, so I wonder if this isn't a ploy of some kind. Although, their technology seemed so advanced in 2168 that they might have already had the ability to essentially become immortal. I guess they might feel like they have to keep her alive, considering their extremely strict social laws against the death of other sentient beings. I suppose that could also include preventing natural death as well, but that is hard to tell from what was presented in 'Gods of Night'. Hopefully we will have a firm answer in the next book.
You will have answers to one of these speculations in Mere Mortals and to the other in Lost Souls.

LutherSloan wrote: View Post
Enterpriserules wrote: View Post
I loved this book. I thought that it was really well written and the story had me from the very beginning. I cannot wait to see what happens! I am hoping to see more of the Voyager crew and the Fed President as well in the upcoming books. I am also hoping that more of the DS9 crew will get to show up. If there is one complaint I have, it is how crazy Troi is in this book; I would never have thought that she would have such a hard time dealing with this. It is a terrible thing, but not so much as to put your life at risk. Anyway, brilliant book!
I'm pretty sure that we have seen as much as we're going to of the DS9 crew in this trilogy, because I am sure that they still want to leave enough leeway for all of the books that can fit into the four years between the latest DS9 Relaunch book "Fearful Symmetry" and "Gods of Night". For the sake of future authors.
LutherSloan is correct. I had to minimize my use of the Deep Space Nine characters to avoid stepping on unrevealed plot elements in that ongoing saga, which is set four years earlier than Destiny.

By a similar token, I had to be sparing in my use of the Voyager and its crew, in order to leave as much creative flexibility as possible for Kirsten Beyer in her novel Full Circle. I've read Full Circle, by the way, and it's awesome — you'll appreciate the wide berth I gave her when you see how brilliantly she explored it.

Thanks to one and all for your comments so far!
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Old September 30 2008, 05:41 PM   #70
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Re: Star Trek: Destiny: Gods of Night - SPOILER Thread

I do have one unanswered question about Troi's condition: Troi miscarried twice because of genetic damage to her reproductive structures which occurred as a direct result of her exposure to the radiation Ian was releasing. After his birth, that radiation was also strong enough to pass through a number of bulkheads and stimulate the growth of the plague samples, putting the ship in danger. Why didn't that radiation affect all of the women (and men) onboard Enterprise in addition to Deanna?
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Old September 30 2008, 06:11 PM   #71
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Re: Star Trek: Destiny: Gods of Night - SPOILER Thread

Sisko_is_my_captain wrote: View Post
I do have one unanswered question about Troi's condition: Troi miscarried twice because of genetic damage to her reproductive structures which occurred as a direct result of her exposure to the radiation Ian was releasing. After his birth, that radiation was also strong enough to pass through a number of bulkheads and stimulate the growth of the plague samples, putting the ship in danger. Why didn't that radiation affect all of the women (and men) onboard Enterprise in addition to Deanna?
Because Troi carried the source of that radiation inside her womb for more than 36 hours. The others did not. As with many radiation effects, the strength of the effect likely diminishes rapidly over distance.
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Old September 30 2008, 06:22 PM   #72
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Re: Star Trek: Destiny: Gods of Night - SPOILER Thread

I am a little disappointed that DS9 is not caught up to Destiny, so that they could be utilized in the series more. Seems a shame, mainly since DS9 is my favorite. I do see that as a strange choice, to have not allowed DS9 to catch up before we read Destiny, but oh well.
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Old September 30 2008, 07:47 PM   #73
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Re: Star Trek: Destiny: Gods of Night - SPOILER Thread

Enterpriserules wrote: View Post
I am a little disappointed that DS9 is not caught up to Destiny, so that they could be utilized in the series more. Seems a shame, mainly since DS9 is my favorite. I do see that as a strange choice, to have not allowed DS9 to catch up before we read Destiny, but oh well.

I just didn't want to sacrifice four years of valuable story time for the arbitrary goal of lining everything up, especially with all the cool stuff that happens during those four years.

Put another way, if DS9 is your favorite, then I assume you wouldn't want the creative decisions for Destiny to be made at DS9's expense.
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Old September 30 2008, 08:02 PM   #74
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Re: Star Trek: Destiny: Gods of Night - SPOILER Thread

Well, I just finished Gods of Night last night. Mind you, I bought it yesterday afternoon. I simply could not put this book down. This is one of the most gripping stories I've read in a long time, and I cannot wait for books two and three. David, This is an amazing book. I was especially touched by the Paris story (as were others, it appears). Though a small part of the book, It was perfectly crafted.

And Marco, Kudos to you in not bringing DS9 forward to match this series. I am very excited to see what happens over the next four years with the DS9 crew.
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Old September 30 2008, 08:10 PM   #75
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Re: Star Trek: Destiny: Gods of Night - SPOILER Thread

I'm only read up to chapter 7 and like the story so far alot of mysterious things happening on Columbia with the Engineers getting killed. Now I'm curious to find out what attacked them and why.I like the way Ezri is shown in this story and Titan and Enterprise's crew. And the Columbia crew as well.I feel bad for will and Deanna and that she's going to have another miscarriage.
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