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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies I-X

Star Trek Movies I-X Discuss the first ten big screen outings in this forum!

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Old September 23 2008, 05:14 AM   #1
Haggis and tatties
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Why no carol marcus(Bibi Besch) in STIII

Was there any reason that the character of Carol Marcus just disappeared totally from STIII, i was just watching 2/3 last night and it just dawned on me that the charactor was just gone in STIII, even in the Genesis device video she was replaced by Kirk......any reason why, anybody know any reason why, or is it just on of those things.
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Old September 23 2008, 05:20 AM   #2
Gep Malakai
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Re: Why no carol marcus(Bibi Besch) in STIII

I assume they didn't want to pay the actress for the rights to use her image from the first film, so they reshot the Genesis Demo tape with Shatner.

*shrug* Just a guess.
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Old September 23 2008, 08:25 AM   #3
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Re: Why no carol marcus(Bibi Besch) in STIII

I suppose, story wise - there just wasn't the room. It would detract from Kirk's loss certainly. Carol has known David all his life, where Kirk has just met him.

I'm not sure if she was ever in or not, but where would you put her? On Genesis with Saavik and David?

I suspect they just dropped her in the story process the same way they dropped Saavik in TVH. The movie didn't need her.
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Old September 23 2008, 11:36 AM   #4
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Re: Why no carol marcus(Bibi Besch) in STIII

jon1701 wrote: View Post
I'm not sure if she was ever in or not, but where would you put her? On Genesis with Saavik and David?
I once read a Harve Bennett interview where he mentioned hearing from Bibi Besch, who was, at first, a little hurt she wasn't called back for ST III. He explained that, in the yin and yang of the script's balancing act, the return of Spock had to be offset by Kirk losing first David, and then Enterprise.

Thus, Bennett explained, as David was being revealed to have "cheated" with the protomatter, the question would be raised, "Did Carol know, too?" If she was on the planet with David and Saavik, she'd be as doomed as David. And if she stayed on the Grissom, she be dead at the hands of the orbiting Klingons.
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Old September 23 2008, 03:59 PM   #5
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Re: Why no carol marcus(Bibi Besch) in STIII

Haggis and Tatties wrote: View Post
Was there any reason that the character of Carol Marcus just disappeared totally from STIII, i was just watching 2/3 last night and it just dawned on me that the charactor was just gone in STIII, even in the Genesis device video she was replaced by Kirk......any reason why, anybody know any reason why, or is it just on of those things.
There is one thing I noticed about the Genesis video...It was updated to reflect the detonation of the Genesis device.
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Old September 24 2008, 03:21 PM   #6
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Re: Why no carol marcus(Bibi Besch) in STIII

I always wondered why she wasn't in it either. But I don't know how they could have worked her into it in its current form.

Would she be on the Enterprise? On Grissom? On the planet? Back at Regula 1?

I'm trying to think of how they could work her in and I can't.
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Old September 24 2008, 03:35 PM   #7
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Re: Why no carol marcus(Bibi Besch) in STIII

Peach Wookiee wrote: View Post
Haggis and Tatties wrote: View Post
Was there any reason that the character of Carol Marcus just disappeared totally from STIII, i was just watching 2/3 last night and it just dawned on me that the charactor was just gone in STIII, even in the Genesis device video she was replaced by Kirk......any reason why, anybody know any reason why, or is it just on of those things.
There is one thing I noticed about the Genesis video...It was updated to reflect the detonation of the Genesis device.
I had always assumed it was Kirk and not Marcus, because the video being watched was Kirk's report to Starfleet Command and the Federation Council about what happened in the Mutara Sector. What Kirk showed Spock and McCoy was Carol's original proposal, from which he lifted elements for his report.

As to why she wasn't in the film... Did she need to be? I never thought so.
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Old September 24 2008, 04:06 PM   #8
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Re: Why no carol marcus(Bibi Besch) in STIII

I never really thought it was so much that it was odd that she wasn't in the film as that there was nothing to explain where she went. Even that didn't bother me overmuch, however. I just figured she went back to Regula to help pick up the pieces or something.
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Old September 24 2008, 04:18 PM   #9
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Re: Why no carol marcus(Bibi Besch) in STIII

ClayinCA wrote: View Post
I never really thought it was so much that it was odd that she wasn't in the film as that there was nothing to explain where she went. Even that didn't bother me overmuch, however. I just figured she went back to Regula to help pick up the pieces or something.
It's been years since I read it, but in the tie-in novelization I think she ends up on the Deltan homeworld and meets up with the family of one of her dead research colleagues. Whether this was based on some early draft of the script or was purely of the novelist's own invention, I don't know. Is my recollection faulty?
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Old September 24 2008, 05:50 PM   #10
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Re: Why no carol marcus(Bibi Besch) in STIII

It seems to me since the whole known universe seemed to be in an uproar over Genises, that she would be on Earth fighting for it.
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Old September 24 2008, 10:08 PM   #11
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Re: Why no carol marcus(Bibi Besch) in STIII

Prydonian wrote: View Post
It's been years since I read it, but in the tie-in novelization I think she ends up on the Deltan homeworld and meets up with the family of one of her dead research colleagues. Whether this was based on some early draft of the script or was purely of the novelist's own invention, I don't know. Is my recollection faulty?
As I said, Carol was never in the script, because Harve Bennett couldn't find a way to do it.

IIRC, the ST III novelization has Carol visit with the relatives of both March and Madison (one of whom Carol had been romantically attached).

In the ST IV novelization she travels to the family of Jedda (seen vaporised in ST II; described as Deltan in the script) and his female Deltan partner, Zinaida (added by her to the ST II novelization). Their two other bondmates were revealed as the female, Verai Dva-Payjh, and male Kirim Dreii-Dall (who is described as having fine, rose-coloured hair down to his knees, in an attempt to explain why Jedda ended up with hair in the film of ST II; McIntyre would have been assuming Jedda would be bald in ST II).
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Old September 28 2008, 06:00 AM   #12
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Re: Why no carol marcus(Bibi Besch) in STIII

I've always thought there could have been a quick scene of Kirk saying goodbye to her as they parted ways at Spacedock, or a throwaway line referring to such a scene.
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Old September 29 2008, 03:31 PM   #13
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Re: Why no carol marcus(Bibi Besch) in STIII

I suppose she could have been on Grissom for the initial scans of the planet from orbit. Have a few lines, then Saavik and David beam down, Carol dies when the ship is destroyed. That would have been plausible and fit the rest of the film as is.

Or if they had gone in a different direction, she could have been the one to explain to Starfleet or the crew they had fudged the design by using protomatter and that it was her fault. She could have died in some way redeeming herself for it.

I always wondered if she new about the protomatter or if Dave just snuck that in.
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Old September 29 2008, 10:31 PM   #14
RobertVA
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Re: Why no carol marcus(Bibi Besch) in STIII

Haggis and Tatties wrote: View Post
Was there any reason that the character of Carol Marcus just disappeared totally from STIII, i was just watching 2/3 last night and it just dawned on me that the charactor was just gone in STIII, even in the Genesis device video she was replaced by Kirk......any reason why, anybody know any reason why, or is it just on of those things.
Because if you include every character from prior films in sequels it doesn't take long before you've got so many performers walking across the scenes there's no time or budget for a real plot.
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Old September 30 2008, 12:26 PM   #15
torius22
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Re: Why no carol marcus(Bibi Besch) in STIII

i always reasoned that it kirk remade the report to protect carol from anyone who wanted to harm her . that way , anyone needing information on it would come looking for him assuming that he was the one in charge and would leave her alone . but that is just my theory
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