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Old September 18 2008, 09:12 PM   #16
Brian
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Re: Fuller: Bring 'Star Trek' Back To Television

For the general public, there are only two Treks. The "old" one with Captain Kirk, and the "new" one with that bald British guy. All contemporary Treks blend into one for them.
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Old September 18 2008, 09:22 PM   #17
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Re: Fuller: Bring 'Star Trek' Back To Television

It shouldn't come back until both the fans and, more importantly, the general public, are hungry for it to come back.

Otherwise, the reaction of the public (and the media) is gonna be "What? Another one? How many times can you Boldly go?!? Have they fixed the shields yet or do they still go down to 20% when someone takes a piss? Do they even have toilets yet?"

A Trek TV series is gonna need more viewers than the hard-core fans out there to survive for more than 1 season. Just IMO.
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Old September 18 2008, 09:23 PM   #18
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Re: Fuller: Bring 'Star Trek' Back To Television

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: View Post
MattJC wrote: View Post
Enterprise didn't leave a bad taste in my mouth.
If symptoms persist, consult a doctor.
I repeat.
Enterprise didn't leave a bad taste in my mouth.
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Old September 18 2008, 09:29 PM   #19
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Re: Fuller: Bring 'Star Trek' Back To Television

Gep Malakai wrote: View Post
Temis the Vorta wrote: View Post
Lindley wrote: View Post
Star Trek could certainly do worse than to get Brian Fuller back.
Give Pushing Daisies four seasons or so - I love it, but it doesn't have a premise that can go on forever - and I agree.
Color me dense, but I was never even aware that Fuller was involved with Trek. Pushing Daisies has been great, so why couldn't he save Voyager?
Not only that, but I'm pretty sure he was responsible for a lot of Heroes' first season humor and zing, which I sorely missed in S2. I suspect that was his contribution because Pushing Daisies is very witty and suddenly Heroes, not so much. Plus he wrote a lot of people's all-time favorite episode, "Company Man." So he can contribute a lot to any TV series. I guess he wasn't allowed to that with VOY or something.

Another mystery to me is how Thompson & Weddle could be so mediocre on DS9 - pretty much all the other regular writers were better - but on BSG, their stuff is among the best.
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Old September 18 2008, 09:31 PM   #20
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Re: Fuller: Bring 'Star Trek' Back To Television

I think there's a certain rose colored glasses impression of TOS, and Fuller has it. It's understandable... groundbreaking TV, truly inspiring and one of a kind, he probably watched it as a kid... it has a lot of feel good spirits.

The trouble is you can't inspire that way any more with sci-fi. And while I agree with him generally that it should be fun, not sterile, DS9 is best etc... I do think this constant longing for TOS isn't good.

The movies will get away with it, as they can have some nostalgia for a couple of hours. But a TV series needs to be something else entirely. It doesn't matter what timeline it's in.
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Old September 18 2008, 09:32 PM   #21
Samuel T. Cogley
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Re: Fuller: Bring 'Star Trek' Back To Television

MattJC wrote: View Post
Samuel T. Cogley wrote: View Post
MattJC wrote: View Post
Enterprise didn't leave a bad taste in my mouth.
If symptoms persist, consult a doctor.
I repeat.
Enterprise didn't leave a bad taste in my mouth.
"We tried to save him. We did everything we could. There was nothing else we could do. I'm so sorry..."
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Old September 18 2008, 09:32 PM   #22
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Re: Fuller: Bring 'Star Trek' Back To Television

Bryan was also responsible for Dead Like Me and Wonderfalls. Not too shabby.
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Old September 18 2008, 10:31 PM   #23
Temis the Vorta
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Re: Fuller: Bring 'Star Trek' Back To Television

AntonyF wrote: View Post
I think there's a certain rose colored glasses impression of TOS, and Fuller has it. It's understandable... groundbreaking TV, truly inspiring and one of a kind, he probably watched it as a kid... it has a lot of feel good spirits.

The trouble is you can't inspire that way any more with sci-fi. And while I agree with him generally that it should be fun, not sterile, DS9 is best etc... I do think this constant longing for TOS isn't good.

The movies will get away with it, as they can have some nostalgia for a couple of hours. But a TV series needs to be something else entirely. It doesn't matter what timeline it's in.
The TOS characters have lodged themselves into popular consciousness, that's all. So it makes sense to build Trek back up from there. I see it as a smart marketing move that has the added benefit of not necessarily being a bad creative move, either. It's not one of those "oh God, the bean counters will screw everything up with their crass ways" situations that so often happens when a corporation tries to revive a dormant franchise. It could work, and I think the odds are better than 50/50 in its favor.

They just need to stick with the characters as they were written - and for most of the TOS regulars, the characters were sketchy at best - that is, if they're even using the TOS characters as the regulars. Also, keep the Optimistic Future/Perfectable (but Not Perfect!!!) Humanity theme - and take advantage of the vast playground that the 23rd C offers. Any century would offer a vast playground, really, we're talking about a quarter of an entire galaxy or more, but the 23rd C is as good as any, so why not?

Success or failure will lie in the creative approach. A new TV series would be better off serialized as much as DS9 was, which remember, was only about half the time, it wasn't at all like Lost or Heroes. Maybe will be even more serialized than DS9, since people are used to that now, and it's particularly common in sci fi. At the very least, there needs to be continuing plot threads.

More DS9 elements: The character interactions should be emotionally complex and develop over time. The political landscape should be sophisticated and compex. Minor players who show promise (in both writing and acting) should be developed into recurring characters to keep things lively and off-balance.

Whether it's the TOS gang on an all-new 23rd C crew, they just need to hold onto the idea that they are the space cops/space soldiers for the Federation. Their explorations are not random; they are assigned missions by Starfleet in order to assess threats, find possible new Federation members, help out Federation colonies/mining operations/disputed planets, take part in diplomatic missions, and clean up inadvertant Federation messes such as gangster planets.

They tangle with Romulans and Klingons. The Andorians and Orions made a big splash in ENT, so the development of those interesting species should be developed as well. They also have their own personal issues to deal with.

And I wouldn't be above a visit to the Mirror Universe every so often, if the new series is taking place basically in parallel to TOS. I'd expect the TOS characters to show up for sweeps episodes, so the further adventures of Mirror-Universe Spock could serve that purpose. Every so often, we could get a tie-in to something we recognize from TOS - maybe more about the Medusans? Another tribble infestation? I wouldn't be adverse to seeing Cyrano Jones or Harry Mudd being recast to serve as a recurring character.

That way, we'd have a mix of new elements, such as more interesting interaction with the Andorians and Orions, and fanboy pandering, which is just fine when done in moderation. I think it could be hugely entertaining and very successful.
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Old September 19 2008, 09:27 PM   #24
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Re: Fuller: Bring 'Star Trek' Back To Television

Okay...wow...Fuller would be cool. And I also think that Manny Coto and he Reeves-Stevens should be brought back, they really did a great job with ENT season 4...not enough to save the show, but they did some great stuff.

Now, I agree with Fuller, Enterprise was the best scenario for reviving Trek and making it fun again was Enterprise - in concept - but the execution FAILED. "Sterile" indeed.

So since that avenue is now - sadly - closed, how to make a seat-of-the-pants exciting "fun" Trek again...

So how about...I was thinking take a cue from Firefly. NO WAIT, BEAR WITH ME HERE A SECOND...I am not saying "remake Firefly but in the Trek 'verse" because that would just be lame.

But how about a situation like...ahem, I think it was in the novel "Battlestations!"...with a very small rag-tag ship and crew. An older ship, once state-of-the art but now really long in the tooth. Maybe even something *like* an old Connie, on a ship *like* the older Starfleet ships in Enterprise, now converted to supply ship/tug.

Put them *right* out on the ragged edge of the Federation. Put a misfit crew in charge - there because nobody else wants them. Interesting and talented folks who couldn't get a better posting because they sometimes fuck up, or pissed off the brass. But they are good at heart and try to redeem themselves. Trying to hold their ship together, and flying by the seat of their pants, and always getting in messes way over their head but surviving and "saving the galaxy" even a few times, all by their wit and sheer tenacity. The crazy-like-a-fox blundering insanity (and occasional do-gooderness, occasional selfishness) gets them in messes, and saves them.

In time, they will redeem themselves and become great. In time. Maybe even at some point - later on - an admiral comes to the captain and says "You know you should be in charge of a ship of the line for the way you handled [this and that situation you stumbled into and saved everyone's ass] but you know the rest of the brass will never agree. Not now. But...well, I (or Section 31, or whatever) could use you and your ship for some "special" missions... Covert missions that we need your ship and crew for because we can't send in a capital ship and high profile captain...we need...deniability...here. We need rouges. People with talent, but who have a history of not necessarily obeying orders. Hell, you will be on the edge...you won't be able to call us for help - or instructions."

And put it in, maybe the time between Enterprise and TOS.

And have folks like Coto, Fuller, JJ. Abrams, Reeves-Stevens, Joss Whedon and even JMS contribute. Not necessarily run, but write some scripts and direct some episodes...

What do you think? Crap idea, or not?
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Last edited by bryce; September 19 2008 at 09:38 PM.
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Old September 19 2008, 09:36 PM   #25
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Re: Fuller: Bring 'Star Trek' Back To Television

I would love to see Star Trek go to HBO or Showtime and just have them really do it up right, with intelligent writing, a decent budget, and no limits.

And even then, only after some new talent comes along with a great vision of how to make Star Trek new and exciting again. (None of the old writers, please, even if some of them were good.)

Making Star Trek just for the sake of making Star Trek is a terrible thing, as evidenced by the last few television series and movies.
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Old September 19 2008, 09:50 PM   #26
Brutal Strudel
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Re: Fuller: Bring 'Star Trek' Back To Television

AntonyF wrote: View Post
I think there's a certain rose colored glasses impression of TOS, and Fuller has it. It's understandable... groundbreaking TV, truly inspiring and one of a kind, he probably watched it as a kid... it has a lot of feel good spirits.

The trouble is you can't inspire that way any more with sci-fi. And while I agree with him generally that it should be fun, not sterile, DS9 is best etc... I do think this constant longing for TOS isn't good.

The movies will get away with it, as they can have some nostalgia for a couple of hours. But a TV series needs to be something else entirely. It doesn't matter what timeline it's in.
It's not that you can't do it within scifi, it's that you can't do it within Trek. The only show which has moved the scifi on teevee paradigm forward like Star Trek did is NuBSG, and it did it by giving us a universe that is fundamentally incompatible with Star Trek's. To name just one example, there are no aliens in NuBSG--even the Cylons, products of alien tech in the old show, are human built in the new.

Trek's day is over--it's been over for ages now. That doesn't take anything away from TOS; for me, it adds to it.
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Old September 19 2008, 10:03 PM   #27
Samuel T. Cogley
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Re: Fuller: Bring 'Star Trek' Back To Television

Brutal Strudel wrote: View Post
Trek's day is over--it's been over for ages now. That doesn't take anything away from TOS; for me, it adds to it.
I still think there's a way to do sci-fi on t.v. and instill it with a sense of wonder and humor and fun. I think "Andromeda" touched on it somewhat in its first season, then spiralled downhill into one of the worst t.v. series ever.

I don't watch "Stargate", but a lot of my friends say that the early years recaptured some of the feel of TOS.

It's like lightning in a bottle. You can capture it again, but it ain't gonna be easy, and you may not be able to hold onto it for very long.
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Old September 20 2008, 03:43 AM   #28
Brutal Strudel
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Re: Fuller: Bring 'Star Trek' Back To Television

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: View Post
Brutal Strudel wrote: View Post
Trek's day is over--it's been over for ages now. That doesn't take anything away from TOS; for me, it adds to it.
I still think there's a way to do sci-fi on t.v. and instill it with a sense of wonder and humor and fun. I think "Andromeda" touched on it somewhat in its first season, then spiralled downhill into one of the worst t.v. series ever.

I don't watch "Stargate", but a lot of my friends say that the early years recaptured some of the feel of TOS.

It's like lightning in a bottle. You can capture it again, but it ain't gonna be easy, and you may not be able to hold onto it for very long.
I hate to sound like the snob I am, but SF tv for me has to be on a par with The Sopranos and The Wire or at least Mad Men or even House. Only BSG seems to fit that bill, though I did like Serenity (never saw more than one episode of Firefly, though I mean to rent the series run soon). The other shows all seem like the latest stale rehash of something that was fresh and new in 1968 or even 1978, when the best scifi tv had to offer was Space: 1999 or BSG TOS. Until BSG, Trek TOS was the high water mark (for me) of space opera sf on tv.
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Old September 20 2008, 06:52 AM   #29
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Re: Fuller: Bring 'Star Trek' Back To Television

bryce wrote: View Post
Okay...wow...Fuller would be cool. And I also think that Manny Coto and he Reeves-Stevens should be brought back, they really did a great job with ENT season 4...not enough to save the show, but they did some great stuff.

Now, I agree with Fuller, Enterprise was the best scenario for reviving Trek and making it fun again was Enterprise - in concept - but the execution FAILED. "Sterile" indeed.

So since that avenue is now - sadly - closed, how to make a seat-of-the-pants exciting "fun" Trek again...

So how about...I was thinking take a cue from Firefly. NO WAIT, BEAR WITH ME HERE A SECOND...I am not saying "remake Firefly but in the Trek 'verse" because that would just be lame.

But how about a situation like...ahem, I think it was in the novel "Battlestations!"...with a very small rag-tag ship and crew. An older ship, once state-of-the art but now really long in the tooth. Maybe even something *like* an old Connie, on a ship *like* the older Starfleet ships in Enterprise, now converted to supply ship/tug.

Put them *right* out on the ragged edge of the Federation. Put a misfit crew in charge - there because nobody else wants them. Interesting and talented folks who couldn't get a better posting because they sometimes fuck up, or pissed off the brass. But they are good at heart and try to redeem themselves. Trying to hold their ship together, and flying by the seat of their pants, and always getting in messes way over their head but surviving and "saving the galaxy" even a few times, all by their wit and sheer tenacity. The crazy-like-a-fox blundering insanity (and occasional do-gooderness, occasional selfishness) gets them in messes, and saves them.

In time, they will redeem themselves and become great. In time. Maybe even at some point - later on - an admiral comes to the captain and says "You know you should be in charge of a ship of the line for the way you handled [this and that situation you stumbled into and saved everyone's ass] but you know the rest of the brass will never agree. Not now. But...well, I (or Section 31, or whatever) could use you and your ship for some "special" missions... Covert missions that we need your ship and crew for because we can't send in a capital ship and high profile captain...we need...deniability...here. We need rouges. People with talent, but who have a history of not necessarily obeying orders. Hell, you will be on the edge...you won't be able to call us for help - or instructions."

And put it in, maybe the time between Enterprise and TOS.

And have folks like Coto, Fuller, JJ. Abrams, Reeves-Stevens, Joss Whedon and even JMS contribute. Not necessarily run, but write some scripts and direct some episodes...

What do you think? Crap idea, or not?
THANK GOD!

All this talk about "bringing back the old stuff" is making me sick. Enterprise failed people. It's like trying to rekindle a realtionship with your ex-wife of 10 years. It'll never be the same and people will always doubt it and shake their heads. It worked for Lucas and Star Wars because those *ahem* fans gave a shit about the past... I don't. What happened then happened. It was great yea, but we can't just go rip it off. We need to blaze our own trail here and as mentioned above it is the perfect way to do so. Every new series has gotten the torch from the old one. Now I know that may seem nei impossible but consider this...Terrorists. Terrorists would work bloody perfect with a misfit crew on the edge and special missions. I have found that the ST series that do the best are the ones that people can more or less relate everyday life to. The threat of terrorists and maybe even an unpopular war might just do the trick....Alright terrorists at the very least. How about the steps that you go to stop and wage war against them...who do you hit? how hard? when? etc etc. If I could write professional grade scripts I would love to submit even an outline of what I thought should happen, but I doubt it.

Anyhow my dreams aside, we need to continue the general idea of ST along. Peaceful existence with the rest of the galaxy when ever possible, but when we can't exist we need to take steps. That would open up an awesome amount of possibilities that a show(s) or a movie(s) could go on. We need to cast off this game of catch-up that we've been playing with Lucas and his cronies and go back to doing our own thing here. We need to move forward! And yes, yes we need a few movies and then a TV show. The movies should start slow yes and if they go someplace expound upon them and do something with them!

I should take the opportunity to tell you that I have been an avid Trek fan since I was old enough to understand what was going on. I grew up on The Next Generation, and I am only 21. I do love TNG but I would never want to try and bring it back and do something different with it.

I figure with my opposite views voiced here, we can do what ever great Starship captain has done in the past... Compromise...
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Old September 21 2008, 03:10 AM   #30
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Re: Fuller: Bring 'Star Trek' Back To Television

But how about a situation like...ahem, I think it was in the novel "Battlestations!"...with a very small rag-tag ship and crew. An older ship, once state-of-the art but now really long in the tooth. Maybe even something *like* an old Connie, on a ship *like* the older Starfleet ships in Enterprise, now converted to supply ship/tug.
Well rats. This is what I wanted ENT to be. It would make sense within the timeline - the time when Starfleet was puny and underfunded was when it started out, right? Once those Federation tax dollars started rolling in (or whatever), they started to build flying luxury hotels for starships.
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