RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 147,739
Posts: 5,843,343
Members: 26,188
Currently online: 369
Newest member: Carpathia86

TrekToday headlines

Retro Review: Non Sequitur
By: Michelle Erica Green on Sep 4

Two The Next Generation Bobble Heads
By: T'Bonz on Sep 4

September-October 2015 Trek Conventions And Appearances
By: T'Bonz on Sep 4

Official Starships Collection Update
By: T'Bonz on Sep 3

Star Trek Night At Fenway Park
By: T'Bonz on Sep 3

New Star Trek Merchandise
By: T'Bonz on Sep 2

Perth Mint Voyager Coins
By: T'Bonz on Sep 1

Face Off To Feature Trek Makeup
By: T'Bonz on Sep 1

Pegg Omaze Video Features Outtakes
By: T'Bonz on Sep 1

Vulcan Ale – The Genesis Effect
By: T'Bonz on Aug 31


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Misc. Star Trek > Trek Tech

Trek Tech Pass me the quantum flux regulator, will you?

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old July 5 2008, 06:34 PM   #1
Bill Morris
Commodore
 
Danube class

This is just a preliminary study so far in preparation for an MSD for this class. I've found many Web pages devoted to the Danube class, and I'm picking up bits and pieces of info here and there. The cutaway from one of the technical manuals below I just saw for the first time. That's helpful.

But I have several questions. First, is that chimney thingy on top the warp core, or is it the horizontal thing, as labled in my mock-up schematic? And are those antimatter pods in the tech-manual cutaway top-aft? What about the pod? Does it have forward and aft torpedo launchers. Also, there are supposed to be two small escape pods, one in each nacelle strut, but maybe that's controversial, since some Web pages state that the Danube class doesn't have escape pods.



Bill Morris is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 5 2008, 10:15 PM   #2
JNG
Chief of Staff, Starfleet Command
 
Re: Danube class

Torpedoes were never seen launched from the pod and it seems obvious there isn't lots of room in there. I believe full-size torpedoes are dropped from multimission modules. Possibly there are individual quad-load modules containing a couple of torpedoes, or a monoload one with maybe eight or something. I always assumed four max, considering the space available and the fact that the torpedoes would either have to be carried in lots of safety equipment if carried already loaded with reactants or would have some sort of reactant-injection setup in the module; I did this to be safe and to keep capabilities of runabouts realistic, but really, there might be room for eight.

The pod may or may not have something to do with guidance, but the DS9 TM clearly states that full-size torpedo launches from a runabout are of the fire-and-forget variety. In the only episode I can think of where full-size torpedoes are launched (dropped) from a runabout, which I believe is "The Search, Part II," the torpedoes appear to be originating from behind and below the crew compartment as seen from its forward window, which further supports DS9 TM's suggestion that the multirole modules are employed for this purpose.

The microtorpedo launchers are described in that same book as situated elsewhere (and magazines loaded through floor hatch) and the microtorpedoes are so tiny that this is much more reasonable than thinking the pod is needed for them.

Thus I think the "rollbar," which, as you know, was only ever intended to differentiate one runabout from another, is probably best defined as a sensor pod, or vaguely as an additional mounting for multimission equipment of various types. I like this idea as it increases the configurability and versatility and lets fans enjoy making up their own pods. Well, 90% of those will probably be "tactical strike cannon war pods" or some such silliness , but I bet a little dish-shaped one could be neat.

I personally thought it would be cool if the pod were an additional fuel intake with deuterium processing equipment, which would be great to have for longer missions.

For some photos of the pod in action (I don't believe it is ever shown actually doing anything except sporting a few little lights), I recommend checking this out: http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/articles/rollbar.htm
JNG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 6 2008, 03:21 AM   #3
Unicron
Continuity Spackle
 
Unicron's Avatar
 
Location: Quietly chuckling
Send a message via ICQ to Unicron
Re: Danube class

I'm inclined to think the horizontal unit is the warp core, and that the other device helps route the warp plasma to the nacelles from the core. Think of it like the way the Galaxy's engine core looks, if you laid the thing on its "back."
__________________

"If you think you're brave enough to walk the path of honor, then follow me into the dragon's den."


Knight Exemplar
Unicron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 6 2008, 04:22 AM   #4
Bill Morris
Commodore
 
Re: Danube class

About the warp core, that's starting to make sense. I always had doubts about a big standup warp core in the middle of a hallway. Besides, warp-capable shuttles must have them horizontal beneath the floor.

About the pod, I always assumed it was science-oriented. Just yesterday, reading some of what's out there on the Web, was the first time I saw any claims about regular photon torpedos. I was able to find the little ports for the microtorp launchers about two years ago. There was a fairly clear view of them for a second on DS9, and I believe that label is correct in my WIP schematic.

About small escapes pod in the struts, I hadn't seen any mention of that until yesterday. Is there room for them?

Bill Morris is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 6 2008, 10:55 AM   #5
Timo
Admiral
 
Re: Danube class

I'd say the pillbox thingamabob in the middle of the spine is just as important a part of the warp core as the (supposed) horizontal tubes running along the spine. It's the actual reaction chamber, just as in the E-A, E-D, E-E and Defiant cores, just oriented a bit differently.

I agree the dorsal pod is unlikely to actually house torpedoes or otherweapons. However, the pod might contain targeting systems vital for the efficient use of torpedoes - it could be a shared resource for a flock of runabi, which would explain why one and only one runabout out of two or three is seen equipped with it for the combat missions of "Jem'Hadar" or "The Maquis II". If it weren't essential combat gear, surely O'Brien would have removed it so that it wouldn't hinder maneuvering.

I can see two logical places for microtorp launchers: either the stub wings on the sides of the cabin that supposedly sport phaser strips (but are virtually never used, the nacelle tip phasers being preferred instead), or the cabin underfloor greeblies. Since we never see any sort of projectiles fired from the stub wings, I tend to discount the DS9 TM idea that the launchers would be there, and instead favor the underfloor location. After all, we do see a projectile launched from there explicitly: the explosive charge in "Past Prologue"...

Does anybody remember the guy who did excellent treatises of all possible and impossible starship bridge interiors, and also a full spectrum of Danube class interior combinations? He managed to explain all the contradictory runabout cockpit sets, too, inventing things like a sliding computer pillar that blocks the centerline aft door. I can't find the site now...

Timo Saloniemi
Timo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 6 2008, 02:54 PM   #6
Forbin
Admiral
 
Forbin's Avatar
 
Location: I said out, dammit!
Re: Danube class

What you're pointing to as "warp core" is a matter transfer conduit. The core itself is the large round thing at the nexus () of the four conduits.

As for the pod, I'm fairly sure it was a sensor pod, with no weapons capability.
Forbin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 6 2008, 03:15 PM   #7
SicOne
Commodore
 
Location: Omaha, NE
Re: Danube class

Regarding escape pods, I seem to recall reading (in "The Making Of Deep Space Nine", a trade-sized book I no longer have, though certainly one of you does and can double-check for us) that the runabout's cockpit is a self-contained pod that can separate from the remainder of the vessel, with limited maneuverability, in the event of a disaster striking the ship.

If memory serves, the three portions of a runabout were (1) the cockpit pod, (2) the propulsion module (rest of the ship minus payload modules), including the spine that connects with the cockpit pod above the rear of the pod, and (3) payload modules (either one large rectangular one, two thinner rectangular ones, or four even smaller ones arrayed in 2x2).

And, yes, the warp core was laid "on its back" atop the spine, with warp plasma conduits arcing down to the nacelles, and 2 anti-matter tanks aft of the warp core, also atop the spine.

Hope this helps.
SicOne is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 6 2008, 09:45 PM   #8
Bill Morris
Commodore
 
Re: Danube class

So the chimney thingy should be the warp core or reaction chamber, the part of the snake fore of that should be deuterium supply, and the part of the snake aft of it should be antideuterium supply, I suppose.

Ex Astris Scientia mentions weapons pods in two places. I don't know. I always assumed they were more for scientific usage.

Getting myself into even more trouble, Here's an outline for a type-8 schematic resized to 700 pixels in overall length and a drawing of a type-6 shuttle at 600 pixels, to compare them assuming 7 meters for the type 8 and 6 meters for the type 6. The blue line shows the floor line of the type 8 the same distance as it would be from the roof in the case of the type 6, just to verify placement of the floor in the schematic (even though it seems clear enough without doing this). The floor line of the type 6 is clear from on-screen evidence, at least. I don't know about the type 8. I assume they use the same shuttle prop for filming.



This is from my LCARS system, showing the microtorp tubes, but there is one scene from DS9 with a runabout passing overhead in which I think they can be seen, as well.


Last edited by Bill Morris; July 6 2008 at 10:55 PM.
Bill Morris is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 6 2008, 11:16 PM   #9
Unicron
Continuity Spackle
 
Unicron's Avatar
 
Location: Quietly chuckling
Send a message via ICQ to Unicron
Re: Danube class

Forbin wrote: View Post
What you're pointing to as "warp core" is a matter transfer conduit. The core itself is the large round thing at the nexus () of the four conduits.
I'm not sure I agree, Forbin. If I'm interpreting your statement correctly, that would mean the round thing is the top of the core itself, and that the core is therefore vertical. The problem with that, if the illustration from the DS9TM is to be considered reliable, is that the core would interfer with the door between the forward and aft sections; that would be true even if it were fairly short in height. That is one reason the horizontal core makes more sense to me, in relation to the rest of the design.
__________________

"If you think you're brave enough to walk the path of honor, then follow me into the dragon's den."


Knight Exemplar

Last edited by Unicron; July 6 2008 at 11:29 PM.
Unicron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 6 2008, 11:25 PM   #10
Timo
Admiral
 
Re: Danube class

I think Forbin meant that yes, the pillbox is the core (if the definition of the core excludes the matter and antimatter feed systems), and yes, it's "vertical", but it's not very tall. In fact, it's only a foot or so tall...

I'd count the feed lines as "part of the core", too, though.

Timo Saloniemi
Timo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 6 2008, 11:30 PM   #11
Unicron
Continuity Spackle
 
Unicron's Avatar
 
Location: Quietly chuckling
Send a message via ICQ to Unicron
Re: Danube class

How large would it have to be to power a shuttle? We've never really seen an actual core on any of the shuttle designs, and there's no doubt some degree of miniaturization. I guess I'm just not sure how effectively that can be done and still yield the desired amount of speed and power. The pillbox seems a little small to me.

* shrugs *

(I realized I goofed and said horizontal instead of vertical. Oops... )
__________________

"If you think you're brave enough to walk the path of honor, then follow me into the dragon's den."


Knight Exemplar
Unicron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 7 2008, 03:19 AM   #12
SicOne
Commodore
 
Location: Omaha, NE
Re: Danube class

IIRC, the "Making Of DS9" book had a few drawings showing the separate components of the runabout; the cockpit pod, the individual cargo modules (with a small corridor between them), and the spine/propulsion module.

I guess you could have a full-sized photorp launcher atop the "rollbar", with weapons magazine cargo modules. Ditto for a small AWACS-style pod, with one of the cargo modules dedicated to a combat information center, to scout ahead of the giant fleets we saw during DS9's Dominion War episodes.
SicOne is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 7 2008, 08:10 AM   #13
Timo
Admiral
 
Re: Danube class

How large would it have to be to power a shuttle?
Well, until VOY, we didn't even have visual or dialogue confirmation that a standard shuttle could go to warp at all. (However, VOY confirmed this not just for its own new shuttles but also for the old Type 6 design, suggesting any old bucket could have had the capacity.)

And in DS9 "The Sound of Her Voice", much is made of the fact that the Defiant cannot enter the planet of the week specifically because of her warp core, whereas a shuttle can do it. Does this mean that shuttles don't have components called "warp cores" (but can still go to warp by other means)? Does this mean the shuttle Chaffee was special, even unique? Or does it simply mean that it's simple to rip out the core of a shuttle whereas it would be nigh-impossible to rip out the core of the mothership?

I'd say we have sufficient evidence to argue that a flat core that fits under the floor of a Type 6 is plenty for going to warp 2 or so. The somewhat bulkier Type 7 might have a larger core in the aft compartments - her top speed is unknown. The unseen Type 9 might be a relatively large craft, perhaps as depicted in the TNG Tech Manual, so her established speed of warp 4 (VOY "Resolutions") would be due to a larger, runabout-style core (either underfloor or in the spine of the TNG TM design).

Timo Saloniemi
Timo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 7 2008, 08:30 AM   #14
Jimmy_C
Fleet Captain
 
Location: Pittsburgh PA, USA
Re: Danube class

Based on the episode of TNG with the Runabout, I thought each engine housed its own warp core. Each nacelle had an independent fuel supply, which had run out in one nacelle. So I figured each had its own M/AM reactor, much like fan designs for the original Enterprise NCC-1701.
__________________
"Is this all that I am? Is there nothing more?" - V'GER
"Don't tell me what it can't do: I built the damn thing!" - Emory Erickson
Jimmy_C is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 7 2008, 09:11 AM   #15
Timo
Admiral
 
Re: Danube class

Right: "Timescape" claims that one nacelle can run on its own for 47 days, resulting in nothing worse than fuel exhaustion. Although this might be an oversimplification, really. Perhaps the nacelle was getting fuel for 47 days but was not doing anything propulsive at the time because the fuel wasn't being energized by the warp core? The warp power system might still be fully centralized, with just one core, but an individual nacelle could drain fuel when severed from the rest of the ship by a time bubble.

Timo Saloniemi
Timo is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 07:34 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.