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Old October 28 2008, 05:41 PM   #121
ClayinCA
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Re: Dollhouse in Trouble?

Guy Gardener wrote: View Post
ClayinCA wrote: View Post
Guy Gardener wrote: View Post
Sidney's dad is doing a job on Eli Stone that basically any one could do... Can't sing well either.
Victor Garber was on Broadway in the original productions of Deathtrap, Sweeney Todd, and Noises Off and in the original off-Broadway cast of Assassins, as well as in the 1990s revival of Damn Yankees. In 2005 he played the role of Frederic in the LA Opera's production of Sondheim's A Little Night Music. He's also played the lead in a critically-acclaimed Encores presentation of Follies. He has been nominated for four Tony awards, three of them for musicals. All of which blows your assertion that he "can't sing well" pretty much out of the water.
Dudes voice is weak.
No, it's not.
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Old October 28 2008, 05:47 PM   #122
Vendikarr
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Re: Dollhouse in Trouble?

Forbin wrote: View Post
I think she's wondering if it's going to possible for us to care about people who have no regular developing character. They're erased and reprogrammed every week, so we'll be seeing a whole new person, a stranger, every week. So there can't be any character growth, and we won't be able to get interested in anyone.
I read the script for the original pilot, and it showed her being reprogrammed several times during the episode. But it also shows fragments, or echos, of the past remaining with her, even though she was wiped clean.

I could see a default personality in the fragments we got, and that default personality can only become stronger. A couple of characters notice something different about her, but in the pilot, they don't mention it. Any problems would lead to Echo being removed from the program.

I found it an enjoyable read, but making it work week after week could be a real chore. All I know is I'll be tuning in to see if it works.
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Old October 28 2008, 10:41 PM   #123
Cain
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Re: Dollhouse in Trouble?

From the beginning, I've thought the concept sounded like it would be hard to make work in a TV series. The concept doesn't sound that sound interesting. Maybe, they could figure it out and make a great show.

But, if they are having this much trouble in pre-production, then it sounds like they can't their heads around the concept either.

I'm not going to prejudge the show and say it will be crap without seeing it. I'll give it a chance. But, my expectations are pretty low.
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Old October 29 2008, 01:28 AM   #124
3D Master
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Re: Dollhouse in Trouble?

Exactly,

it would work great as a mini-series of tv movies, but a weekly ongoing just won't work.
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Old November 4 2008, 04:09 AM   #125
Sakrysta
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Re: Dollhouse in Trouble?

Well, I always look forward to seeing Joss' stuff on TV. And I confess, I was pickled tink to discover that Reed Diamond has made a place for himself in the cast. Man, I miss Journeyman.
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Old November 4 2008, 04:51 PM   #126
stj
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Re: Dollhouse in Trouble?

^^^Part of Life on Mars is basically the Journeyman story, in the sense of mysterious time travel for occult reasons, with teases luring the hero in his search to find out why, why, why? I didn't care for that story myself, but maybe you did. I thought the characters and dialogue in Journeyman were much more lifelike than in Life on Mars, but that's me. Maybe you should check it out.
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Old November 5 2008, 02:18 AM   #127
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Re: Dollhouse in Trouble?

well there was a post by joss yesterday, i think, and he did say that the network bought something they thought was completely diff. you know when you're trying to explain something to someone and you think they get it but they actually think something completely different? that's what happened. it's like joss' idea was an orange, but the network thought they bought a grapefruit. so now joss has to turn his orange more like a grapefruit. he's said the pilot has been completely thrown out. was going to be 2nd ep, but not anymore. he's basically having to rework his idea because as he said, now he knows what the network was thinkingking it was getting. that's why they had to take a break. you think you're going one way, but then you find out you need to go another so you stop, back track and go a different way. wow, that's a lot of reworking. even the eps already shot will need to be redone. >_<
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Old November 5 2008, 02:12 PM   #128
Forbin
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Re: Dollhouse in Trouble?

The network should just STFU. Fux has already botched more than enough genre shows with their interference.
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Old November 5 2008, 02:50 PM   #129
3D Master
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Re: Dollhouse in Trouble?

The network is right on this one. You read some of Joss' comments it seems HE wanted to make the Adventures of Robo-ho, while the network expected Echo to develop in an actual character.

I can't say I'm surprised.
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Old November 5 2008, 04:19 PM   #130
Strings
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Re: Dollhouse in Trouble?

InvisibleGT wrote: View Post
The idea, while "out there," is also a fantastic and unique one, and one that I believe people will connect with once they allow for the possibility.
cough-Joe 90- cough

bout as original as whedons other shows i guess
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Old November 5 2008, 04:21 PM   #131
Lindley
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Re: Dollhouse in Trouble?

3D Master wrote: View Post
The network is right on this one. You read some of Joss' comments it seems HE wanted to make the Adventures of Robo-ho, while the network expected Echo to develop in an actual character.

I can't say I'm surprised.
It's hard to be surprised when your interpretation is so heavily based on your own preconceptions. Unless Joss has said something else since the big shakeup announcement about a week ago, which contained no such implications.

Incidentally, new trailer:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1WwPpfyPUC8
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Old November 5 2008, 05:53 PM   #132
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Re: Dollhouse in Trouble?

3D Master wrote: View Post
The network is right on this one. You read some of Joss' comments it seems HE wanted to make the Adventures of Robo-ho, while the network expected Echo to develop in an actual character.

I can't say I'm surprised.
Yes, because Joss Whedon has never been known for his love of character-based drama... Oh wait... the other thing... he HAS been known for it, consistently, throughout his career.
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Old November 5 2008, 06:18 PM   #133
3D Master
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Re: Dollhouse in Trouble?

Lindley wrote: View Post
3D Master wrote: View Post
The network is right on this one. You read some of Joss' comments it seems HE wanted to make the Adventures of Robo-ho, while the network expected Echo to develop in an actual character.

I can't say I'm surprised.
It's hard to be surprised when your interpretation is so heavily based on your own preconceptions. Unless Joss has said something else since the big shakeup announcement about a week ago, which contained no such implications.
Uh, actually, it did.

Bishbot wrote: View Post
3D Master wrote: View Post
The network is right on this one. You read some of Joss' comments it seems HE wanted to make the Adventures of Robo-ho, while the network expected Echo to develop in an actual character.

I can't say I'm surprised.
Yes, because Joss Whedon has never been known for his love of character-based drama... Oh wait... the other thing... he HAS been known for it, consistently, throughout his career.
What he did in the past doesn't matter. Besides, Whedon isn't so much about the drama, as the big oomph COOL! shock scenes. And then writes some vague drama around and leading towards it; often to the point where he sacrifices character development, (character-)continuity, and the plot to get the big oomph moment onscreen.

The adventures of robo-ho, would basically be episode after episode of OOMPH scenes, without having to worry about writing the road to them; apart from: "Echo is rented, new personality uploaded."
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Old November 5 2008, 07:21 PM   #134
Bishbot
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Re: Dollhouse in Trouble?

3D Master wrote: View Post
Lindley wrote: View Post
3D Master wrote: View Post
The network is right on this one. You read some of Joss' comments it seems HE wanted to make the Adventures of Robo-ho, while the network expected Echo to develop in an actual character.

I can't say I'm surprised.
It's hard to be surprised when your interpretation is so heavily based on your own preconceptions. Unless Joss has said something else since the big shakeup announcement about a week ago, which contained no such implications.
Uh, actually, it did.

Bishbot wrote: View Post
3D Master wrote: View Post
The network is right on this one. You read some of Joss' comments it seems HE wanted to make the Adventures of Robo-ho, while the network expected Echo to develop in an actual character.

I can't say I'm surprised.
Yes, because Joss Whedon has never been known for his love of character-based drama... Oh wait... the other thing... he HAS been known for it, consistently, throughout his career.
What he did in the past doesn't matter. Besides, Whedon isn't so much about the drama, as the big oomph COOL! shock scenes. And then writes some vague drama around and leading towards it; often to the point where he sacrifices character development, (character-)continuity, and the plot to get the big oomph moment onscreen.

The adventures of robo-ho, would basically be episode after episode of OOMPH scenes, without having to worry about writing the road to them; apart from: "Echo is rented, new personality uploaded."
Yes but it wouldn't because Joss doesn't really write episodic television in the way you're describing, so its highly unlikely he's about to start with this. Also, a scene can't have oomph unless it happens to characters the audience cares about, and the only way to make an audience care is with character development. I know that, and presumably you know that, so you can be damned sure that creator of four television shows and writer of numerous comic books Joss Whedon knows that.
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Old November 5 2008, 08:18 PM   #135
3D Master
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Re: Dollhouse in Trouble?

Bishbot wrote: View Post
Yes but it wouldn't because Joss doesn't really write episodic television in the way you're describing, so its highly unlikely he's about to start with this. Also, a scene can't have oomph unless it happens to characters the audience cares about, and the only way to make an audience care is with character development. I know that, and presumably you know that, so you can be damned sure that creator of four television shows and writer of numerous comic books Joss Whedon knows that.
Odd then, that he fails completely at this.
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