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Old September 19 2008, 02:31 PM   #91
Lindley
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Re: Dollhouse in Trouble?

The only reason Joss came back to TV at all is because of that lunch with Eliza working out as it did. Wouldn't make much sense to approach another network when her contract was with Fox. We'll see what the future holds.....
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Old September 19 2008, 04:06 PM   #92
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Re: Dollhouse in Trouble?

FordSVT wrote: View Post
amdmiami wrote: View Post
The only thing I find weird is that he didn't move this show over to another network were it may have had a chance to live. Maybe CW because almost everything else on that channel sucks.
Why are you under the impression that he had a choice of where to make his next show?

Lke I said up thread, it doesn't appear any of the other big networks are chomping at the bit for him to develop a show for them, which is why I don't get all of the vile hatred for Fox.
A lot of Joss Whedon fans still hold bitter feelings towards FOX because of what happened with regards to Firefly (feelings that are 100% justified given the facts [which I previously outlined] of how the network's previous chief executive[s] behaved with regards to Joss and that series). Although the network now has new people in charge, it's still hard for a number of die-hard Joss fans to forgive and forget (I'm not one of them, as I'm more than willing to give the new FOX regime the benefit of the doubt, especially given what they've done with regards to DH to demonstrate their faith in the project and in Joss).
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Old September 19 2008, 07:32 PM   #93
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Re: Dollhouse in Trouble?

Bishbot wrote: View Post
3D Master wrote: View Post
His comics work is no better, and Buffy S8 is so horrible it isn't even funny. The main characters that are supposed to be heroes are really villains the way they're written. Villains that need to be annihilated from where I'm sitting.
What have they done that's especially villainous or worthy of annihilation?
Christ, don't ask that.

Please.
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Old September 19 2008, 07:35 PM   #94
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Re: Dollhouse in Trouble?

^ Mmm, I might have to get that Spike "Not this shit again" pic on standby
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Old September 19 2008, 07:39 PM   #95
Bishbot
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Re: Dollhouse in Trouble?

Ethros wrote: View Post
^ Mmm, I might have to get that Spike "Not this shit again" pic on standby
lol, I'm sorry - I suppose I saw a can of worms standing there and just sort of dived right in. Personally I'm loving Season 8 - its the comic I most look forward to every (ish) month.
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Old September 19 2008, 07:57 PM   #96
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Re: Dollhouse in Trouble?

^ It's good, but Angel: After The Fall is way better
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Old September 19 2008, 08:10 PM   #97
Alaedhros
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Re: Dollhouse in Trouble?

Pingfah wrote: View Post
Christ, don't ask that.

Please.
Ethros wrote: View Post
^ Mmm, I might have to get that Spike "Not this shit again" pic on standby
I feel like I should apologise to you two (and a few others), because I was the one that asked that in the last thread. In my defense, I'm newer to Buffy/Angel, so I'd never read 3DMaster's opinions; now that I have, I realise that it just derailed the entire thread. Hopefully it won't do so here.
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Old September 20 2008, 08:43 PM   #98
Temis the Vorta
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Re: Dollhouse in Trouble?

Fox is in trouble on several fronts - Monday and Friday are bad, Wednesday is weak. And the "real" TV season hasn't even gotten into full swing! Dollhouse is going to get a longer leash (in terms of not being quickly cancelled) as a result.

I think this just all just Fox's attempt - counterproductive or otherwise - to ensure they have something viable for midseason when the cancellation axe falls heavily on their other shows.
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Old September 20 2008, 10:53 PM   #99
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Re: Dollhouse in Trouble?

A TV budget and the resutls of which, is what kept Joss Whedon bounded by reality. No matter what project he does, you can see his talent and creativity in there, but as pointed out, a lot of good stuff also comes from his creative team. IT's a shame really that he didn't form a good creative team for the Season 8 comics.

It's gone from potentially good, to okay, to blah, to bad, to I just don
t even really care what happens anymore, and the art work has been nothing short of TERRIBLE. I have been giving serious consideration to stop buying the Season 8 comics because of the subpar wirting, crappy art, and ridiculous events.

With an unlimited budget and no one appearently telling him when he's off the mark, Joss has fallen into a pit of crappy creativity and ruined what could have been something very special.

When reading "Angel" Season 6, it becomes very, very, VERY appearent where all his attention was going. The complex plotting, story lines and events are all building up to something interesting. You could read some of the earlier issues and have a general idea of what was happening, but because of hos it was written and parts not divuldged yet, it was like one giant riddle. Another shame is that the art work for this comic has been only a few steps above BTVS S8 -- and that's not saying much. He found a winner with artist John Cassaday on the three year The Astonishing X-Men comics; too bad he didn't carry over that artist to his BTVS S8 work.


And finally, while I loved the first "Serenity" comic trilogy, I found the second to be boring. In fact, if I had it to do over again, I would not have purchased those.

But taking into consideration he two movie scripts (one un-used), was working on all those, Dr. Horrible, a personal life, and then doing this TV series, I think it's understandable the drop in quality. One can only hope he focuses his main energy on the show and not worry about "the new morons at FOX".
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Old October 26 2008, 02:40 PM   #100
Cap.T
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Re: Dollhouse in Trouble?

Whedon gives an update on Dollhouse:
http://whedonesque.com/comments/17945

Among the things he mentions:

  • The original pilot won't see the light of day
  • The character November has been dropped but the actress is playing a different part
  • Steven DeKnight wrote and directed an episode that "saved the shows ass" and departed Dollhouse after that because his consulting stint was over
  • As of Monday Jane Espenson will work on the show
  • It sounds like Whedon was ready to throw in the towel at one point, at least some parts of his post read like that
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Old October 26 2008, 04:10 PM   #101
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Re: Dollhouse in Trouble?

I don't know what's more frustrating, Fox executives' incessant interference, or Joss' exec-pussy-whipped wuss-like acceptance of everything they say. It was evident on the extras for Firefly when he talked about the orginal pilot and how Fox told him it didn't work. He said "They were riiiiight," like a little kid who just got yelled at. Yet that first pilot was effing brilliant!

Joss, get your balls back from your wife and stand up to the suits. YOU are the creative force. THEY are nothing but book keepers.
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Old October 26 2008, 05:08 PM   #102
Lindley
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Re: Dollhouse in Trouble?

^Can't say I interpreted the Firefly comment the same way. Joss was agreeing that showing the Battle of Serenity Valley rather than just talking about it was a better starting point for "Serenity".

It sounds like he's saying much the same here---that his original idea was a bit different, but that he's finding the direction imposed by the network no less interesting and possibly even a bit better in some ways.

While I hate network interference as much as anyone, it's not always bad---especially when it comes at this stage in the process rather than later, when things have already been hard-established.

Yay Jane Espenson! Oh, and "congratudolences" is totally my new favorite word.
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Old October 26 2008, 07:40 PM   #103
Temis the Vorta
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Re: Dollhouse in Trouble?

Whedon gives an update on Dollhouse:
http://whedonesque.com/comments/17945
Whoah, a lot of blather and not much substance. It doesn't address the (to me) most crucial issue, that he's invested the story with something that would make the audience care about what happens next. That's the key problem with the premise, you have people who play "dolls" who adopt different identities each episode, so frakkin' what?
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Old October 26 2008, 09:54 PM   #104
Lindley
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Re: Dollhouse in Trouble?

Given that this is Joss Whedon, I think most of us just assumed he had somewhere cool to go with all this. I don't really get the need to see his vision before he tells it....

The more pressing question is whether that place is still accessible given the network changes.
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Old October 26 2008, 11:03 PM   #105
Forbin
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Re: Dollhouse in Trouble?

And whether they'll let him get there before they cancel it!
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