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Old September 15 2008, 05:15 AM   #1
A beaker full of death
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Iron Man: SOB (SPOILERS)

I really liked the movie.

BUT... how could they take 40 years of history - the bodyguard story - pay it lip service - and then in the final line of the movie toss it in the crapper???

Also, what happened to Supreme Headquarters International Espionage Law-enforcement Division?
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Old September 15 2008, 05:20 AM   #2
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Re: Iron Man: SOB (SPOILERS)

A beaker full of death wrote: View Post
BUT... how could they take 40 years of history - the bodyguard story - pay it lip service - and then toss it in the crapper???
They thought the current position was more interesting. Robert Downey Jr. would probably get a little saggy in the face if they waited 40 years to take the story in that direction out of a sense of obligation.

Also, what happened to Supreme Headquarters International Espionage Law Enforcement Division?
1991 happened. And, come to think of it, it's just a tad obvious to actually use the word "espionage" in the name of a spy agency. Not that anyone wouldn't know what they really do, but it's just good manners to dress it up a bit.
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Old September 15 2008, 05:26 AM   #3
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Re: Iron Man: SOB (SPOILERS)

David cgc wrote: View Post
I'll be damned.
I skipped 1986-2004.
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Old September 15 2008, 07:41 AM   #4
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Re: Iron Man: SOB (SPOILERS)

i loved the fact that they tossed out the bodyguard story and Stark's dismissal of it as being daft.
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Old September 15 2008, 04:34 PM   #5
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Re: Iron Man: SOB (SPOILERS)

A beaker full of death wrote: View Post
BUT... how could they take 40 years of history - the bodyguard story - pay it lip service - and then in the final line of the movie toss it in the crapper???
Tony's ID has been public for years now (and intermittently before that; he's gone public three times, by my count, reverting back twice), so presumably they saw more interesting things to do with the public identity then doing the same secret ID thing that all the other superhero films have done.

I welcome it; comics have a multiplicity of formats and setups that films are only starting to get to (another example would be Batman not saving Rachel, something that comics did 30 years ago, and have done very regularly since the 80s). I think the "superhero as celebrity" metaphor has a lot more untapped potential these days.

Tony's the sort for whom the secret ID is really gratuitous, anyway.
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Old September 15 2008, 05:28 PM   #6
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Re: Iron Man: SOB (SPOILERS)

The bodyguard thing doesn't make much sense anyway. Consider why superheroes have a secret identity:
1) To protect those closest to them from reprisals by their enemies.
2) To protect themselves from reprisals, justified or otherwise, by law enforcement and government agencies (as well as their enemies).
3) To give themselves breathing space, so that they don't have to be in persona 24 hours a day.
Anything else?

Now consider:
In Tony's case, #1 doesn't make any sense at all. By declaring Iron Man to be his employee, he's basically defining his entire company to be "those closest to him." All an enemy has to do to get back at Iron Man is to start killing Stark's employees. He can't protect them all.

Furthermore, by declaring Iron Man to be his bodyguard, he is defining himself as being the person closest to Iron Man, thus making himself a more tempting target for the bad guys. He's putting himself at greater risk, not less.

#2 may work in the sense that Tony can't be held personally liable for the property damage, etc., caused by his employee. However, if Iron Man is declared to be working in the interest of Stark's company, the company may held liable. The only way they could avoid blame would be to fire Iron Man.

This actually happened back during the Armor Wars in the late 1980s, but it's amazing it hasn't happened every other day from the beginning.

#3 works more or less, but since Stark is a celebrity on his own, he doesn't have very much breathing space anyway. Actually it may work the other way around-- being Iron Man provides breathing space from being Stark.

Personally I just think that the bodyguard idea was simply one more of Stan Lee's amusing variations on a theme, but not one that had much thought put into it. Kind of like the Inhumans wearing masks. I'm still trying to figure that one out!
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Old September 15 2008, 05:54 PM   #7
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Re: Iron Man: SOB (SPOILERS)

Thing is though, from a storytelling standpoint Stark wasn't really out to start a superhero career. Stane was defeated, and the threats caused by people stealing his weapons were (as far as he knew) silenced. Aside from the requisite enormous amounts of damage that superpowered combat tends to do to the surrounding area, he didn't do THAT many illegal things, and anything he COULD reasonably be sued for he could afford to fight or settle.

Coming out as Iron Man would make perfect sense for him, as he was basically done with being Shellhead. It fits the playboy-yet-responsible Tony Stark portrayed through the film just right. What screws it up is Nck Fury showing up post-credits and saying that Iron Man may have a use in the Avengers, ergo that giving up his secret identity compromised his ability to actively participate in this program.

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Old September 15 2008, 08:26 PM   #8
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Re: Iron Man: SOB (SPOILERS)

Post-credits? Fuck me. Why do they do that??
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Old September 15 2008, 09:10 PM   #9
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Re: Iron Man: SOB (SPOILERS)

It's an easy way to include stuff that doesn't fit into the main picture very well.

In IM's case, they had a great ending; it would have lessened the effect to tack on an extra scene.
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Old September 15 2008, 09:12 PM   #10
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Re: Iron Man: SOB (SPOILERS)

also, Ultimate Iron Man's been public since near the start of his career (not sure what the UIM2 LS has added)...
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Old September 16 2008, 12:39 AM   #11
A beaker full of death
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Re: Iron Man: SOB (SPOILERS)

captcalhoun wrote: View Post
also, Ultimate Iron Man's been public since near the start of his career (not sure what the UIM2 LS has added)...
Sorry, ultimates so much count for nothing.
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Old September 16 2008, 12:41 AM   #12
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Re: Iron Man: SOB (SPOILERS)

When the creators of the Ultimate Universe are heavily featured on the movie's advisory committee (as Brian Michael Bendis and Mark Millar were), they count for something.
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Old September 16 2008, 12:44 AM   #13
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Re: Iron Man: SOB (SPOILERS)

Silvercrest wrote: View Post
The bodyguard thing doesn't make much sense anyway. Consider why superheroes have a secret identity:
1) To protect those closest to them from reprisals by their enemies.
2) To protect themselves from reprisals, justified or otherwise, by law enforcement and government agencies (as well as their enemies).
3) To give themselves breathing space, so that they don't have to be in persona 24 hours a day.
The secret identity cliche that really gets me, which was quite common in the Silver Age, is when a hero's secret ID is generally known to the be the only person who can get ahold of the hero. Clark Kent is the only person who can get in touch with Superman; Don Blake is the only person who can get in touch with Thor; Matt Murdock is the only person who can get in touch with Daredevil. I know that good deal of suspension of disbelief has to go into the whole secret ID schtick, but could these people be any more obvious? If I were trying to figure out a hero's secret ID, the person who's known as the only one who can get in touch with the hero is the first person I'd look at.
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Old September 16 2008, 01:07 AM   #14
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Re: Iron Man: SOB (SPOILERS)

The Old Mixer wrote: View Post
Clark Kent is the only person who can get in touch with Superman
I would say Lois would be thought of more than Clark concerning Supes.
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Old September 16 2008, 01:17 AM   #15
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Re: Iron Man: SOB (SPOILERS)

I liked that Tony went public with Iron Man, because there have been way too many superhero movies with the same old secret identity thing.
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