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Old September 15 2008, 01:17 AM   #1
sojourner
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Star Wars: A question of scope.

Prodded by another thread, I now look back and realize something that I miss about the original Star Wars movie. with just the one film Lucas gave us what seemed like a much larger universe with a broad selection of characters. I can´t help but feel that there was more to the setting what with the mention of ¨others joining the academy¨ and ¨fought in the clone wars with your father¨. It always left me with the impression that Luke, Leia and Han - while important, were not the only important figures in the story. Even Vader in the first movie is not the only right hand man to the emperor. We get the impression that while he is an elite figure, he is not the only character of his type in the empire, otherwise I don´t think Tarken would be ordering him around.
By ESB it is clear Lucas has narrowed the scope of his universe where our main characters are the driving force behind everything. I won´t get into the story line problems by making everyone and thier sister related. I just wonder what stories might have been had he not changed the scope and kept these main characters as part of a bigger story. Maybe the EU wouldn´t have had to struggle (due mainly to Lucas deciding to wrap up the story line in ROTJ) to find a new main villain. Or, perhaps there could have been more books/movies/cartoons set in the OT without having to live in the shadow of the Luke/Leia/Han trinity.

Thoughts?
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Last edited by sojourner; September 15 2008 at 01:18 AM. Reason: spelling
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Old September 15 2008, 02:32 AM   #2
Good Will Riker
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Re: Star Wars: A question of scope.

Ironically, the only on-screen stories not to feature Skywalkers/Kenobi were the animated series "The Droids" and "Ewoks," and the 2 Ewok TV movies that cameout in the mid-80's.

For further answers, please, PLEASE watch this following 9-minute George Lucas documentary:

Star Wars: Episode I-What Went Wrong: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xxf1c3fzDOU

^^^

That pretty much says it all!

Last edited by Good Will Riker; September 15 2008 at 03:07 AM.
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Old September 15 2008, 02:48 AM   #3
Temis the Vorta
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Re: Star Wars: A question of scope.

I didn't feel like the PT narrowed the scope of the SW universe. That wasn't the problem - it was more due to:

1. The PT characters lacking the liveliness and fun of the OT characters.

2. Leaden dialogue.

3. Wooden acting.

4. Poorly constructed plotting.

5. Anakin presented as a stupid, whiny little bitch rather than a great, noble, popular, intelligent, courageous, heroic leader with the fatal flaw of hubris, which despite all his fine qualities is what causes his fall, in the finest tradition of classical tragedy.

6. Misbegotten attempts at making the politics of the SW universe "real," which led simply to boredom and klunkiness. Leave the politics to Star Trek.
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Old September 15 2008, 03:28 AM   #4
sojourner
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Re: Star Wars: A question of scope.

Temis the Vorta wrote: View Post
I didn't feel like the PT narrowed the scope of the SW universe. That wasn't the problem - it was more due to:

1. The PT characters lacking the liveliness and fun of the OT characters.

2. Leaden dialogue.

3. Wooden acting.

4. Poorly constructed plotting.

5. Anakin presented as a stupid, whiny little bitch rather than a great, noble, popular, intelligent, courageous, heroic leader with the fatal flaw of hubris, which despite all his fine qualities is what causes his fall, in the finest tradition of classical tragedy.

6. Misbegotten attempts at making the politics of the SW universe "real," which led simply to boredom and klunkiness. Leave the politics to Star Trek.
1. missed my point
2. missed my point
3. missed my point
4. missed my point
5. missed my point
6. missed my point


I am not talking about the failings of the PT. I did not mention the PT. I do not believe in the PT. And still none of your points have to do with the scope of the story portrayed, but were little more than pot shots at a the PT. I am talking about a bigger picture than ¨what went wrong¨, I am talking about what might have been in the early days of Star Wars, when Lucas was still thinking of a much broader tapestry.
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Old September 15 2008, 04:08 AM   #5
Good Will Riker
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Re: Star Wars: A question of scope.

^^^
What would you have wanted to see of Star Wars, besides a 6 feature film series that deals with the discovery, rise, fall, and redemption of Anakin Skywalker?

But there was a broader tapestry to the Star Wars universe than Skywalkers/Kenobi because did I not mention that 75% of the non-Skywalker/Kenobi related on-screen Star Wars stuff involved the Ewoks? If you don't want to watch the Skywalkers all the time, then just go watch the Ewoks, okay? EWOKS are your only alternative (besides, "The Droids" animated series...), sadly.
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Old September 15 2008, 05:08 AM   #6
Gaith
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Re: Star Wars: A question of scope.

I think scope starts being an issue in Jedi. We glimpse Mon Mothma, but instead of learning anything about her, we get a too-long sequence on a planet we've already visited and didn't really want to go back to.

It gets much worse, of course, in the PT. Zahn's Thrawn trilogy, on the other hand, did a wonderful job of expanding the universe without betraying the SW spirit.

So I don't think ESB is the problem, Jedi is, though it's still parsecs beyond the PT.
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Old September 15 2008, 05:42 AM   #7
Orintho
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Re: Star Wars: A question of scope.

One the limitations of movies (versus television series for example) is that movies do not have the luxury of time to fully explore a lot of their own worlds. Lucas HAD to focus his story.
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Old September 15 2008, 07:49 AM   #8
Dream
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Re: Star Wars: A question of scope.

Unlike books which can focus on as many people as they want in a story it's usually a good idea to focus your story on the few main characters when it's a movie. It just makes it easier for the audience to follow. Fans wanted to see what happens with Luke, Han and Leia in the OT.
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Old September 15 2008, 12:40 PM   #9
biotech
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Re: Star Wars: A question of scope.

They stuck with what worked, people just wanted to see the core heroes, not new people, with the exception of Lando and Boba Fett.

When I saw Mon Motha, I just felt, who is she giving the other people orders, these are the guy who have been saving the galaxy over and over, and now you are telling them what to do?

Maybe if her cameo in III handnt been cut people would care more about her watching all six in the right order, but by far people care about Wedge more than her.

The biggest problem with the PT and many of the EU books, is that there is no Han/Lando, style ordinary guy to identify with.

A guy with no force powers, just getting by on charisma, a blaster, and a fast ship.

Who were we meant to identy with? Captain Pananka, Princess Amidala? Jar Jar?

Same with the EU, almost everyone is a jedi, and those that arent are usually charisma free zones.
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Old September 15 2008, 03:30 PM   #10
Steve Roby
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Re: Star Wars: A question of scope.

sojourner wrote: View Post
with just the one film Lucas gave us what seemed like a much larger universe with a broad selection of characters.
Yep. For example, Tatooine was the armpit of the galaxy in the first movie, but they kept going back to it, and it kept getting more and more important.

Good Will Riker wrote: View Post
What would you have wanted to see of Star Wars, besides a 6 feature film series that deals with the discovery, rise, fall, and redemption of Anakin Skywalker?
There was absolutely nothing in the original Star Wars to suggest that the series was actually all about Darth Vader. Nor, as far as I can remember, did anyone say back at the time that it was all about Vader. Certainly not when the plan was for three trilogies, one before the original and one after.
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Old September 15 2008, 04:06 PM   #11
Lindley
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Re: Star Wars: A question of scope.

biotech wrote: View Post
Same with the EU, almost everyone is a jedi, and those that arent are usually charisma free zones.
Jagged Fel seems to be doing okay for the most part. When he's not squabbling with Zekk over Jaina, anyway.
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Old September 15 2008, 08:53 PM   #12
Mr Light
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Re: Star Wars: A question of scope.

One of my favorite things about the SW movies are the huge scope of the story, how the events of the movies are not the only important things going on. Particularly in the Prequels, you watch the movie but it's really just one small piece of a much larger puzzle. We meet Grievous but we don't know his history or why he can't breathe. We briefly hear about Darth Plagueis, the actual driving force of the entire story, but don't meet him or know what he was really about. We visit Utapau but we don't learn about the whole twin species symbiosis thing. It's all in the supplemental material. I like that. It gives me more than just two hours of entertainment.
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Old September 15 2008, 09:32 PM   #13
davejames
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Re: Star Wars: A question of scope.

Yeah you definitely don't get the sense in the first movie that the entire galaxy revolves around these characters like you do in the other movies. Even Luke, who discovers he has Jedi powers, is still just some random kid from a backwater planet who's along for the ride. He isn't painted as some big, mythical "savior" with an important destiny.

As much as I liked the direction the story went in with Empire and Jedi, part of me wishes Luke and the others remained just a ragtag team of rebels running around the galaxy and causing trouble for the Empire.
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Old September 15 2008, 10:06 PM   #14
sojourner
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Re: Star Wars: A question of scope.

^Exactly, there is a difference between the characters being the center of the story and the center of the universe. I think originally there was some intention to have Luke/Leia/Han be just part of the rebellion, not the center of it. Imagine a ROTJ (well maybe a novelization) that would switch from L/L/H to other bands of rebels and give them more a sense of equal importance in the downfall of the empire and that they had stories to tell as well.
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Old September 15 2008, 10:40 PM   #15
Kelthaz
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Re: Star Wars: A question of scope.

davejames wrote: View Post
Yeah you definitely don't get the sense in the first movie that the entire galaxy revolves around these characters like you do in the other movies. Even Luke, who discovers he has Jedi powers, is still just some random kid from a backwater planet who's along for the ride. He isn't painted as some big, mythical "savior" with an important destiny.

As much as I liked the direction the story went in with Empire and Jedi, part of me wishes Luke and the others remained just a ragtag team of rebels running around the galaxy and causing trouble for the Empire.
I don't see how you can say that. Luke and the gang were far more important in ANH than they were in both sequels put together. Luke, the main character of the trilogy, didn't even do anything in the last two movies. The Empire would have collapsed without him. Leia did nothing and all Han did was lead a rebel group on Endor that got bailed out by a group of Ewoks; anyone could have done that.

Compare this to ANH, where Luke single-handedly, in his first time in a X-Wing, destroys a space station the size of a moon. Leia has the plans to the Death Star and Han Solo saves Luke at the last second in the Falcon.
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