End of Shadow War = Lame - Page 4

Tulin · September 14 2008, 07:03 AM

Starfleet Engineer wrote:

The unsatisfying part is the Vorlons and Shadows being reduced to the level of whining children. Lorien explains stuff and the whiny Vorlon and Shadow ask him if he'll go with them when they leave and go beyond the rim. They were shockingly whiny and childlike.

That's the whole pint - that they ARE children to Lorien. One of the motiffs in B5 is that there is a heirarchy to existence in the universe and that for every omniscient/omnipotent appearing race in the universe, there is a race that is so old and advanced it alost appears to be like THAT race's parent.

The point is that eventually WE become the shepherds to younger races and will WE do better?

It is pretty self-evident.

stonester1 · September 14 2008, 10:19 AM

Yup, the first Kosh WAS a "good guy". Not that his race was evil, they weren't. But they were aloof, detatched and had their own agenda. At one time, they were about the well being of the younger races, but over time, that changed.

That is one of the things that made Kosh Naranek such a bleeding heart. He WAS about the well being of the other races and actually cared about them.

Even cared about individuals among the other races, which may have even made him unique among his people, and probably a chief reason why he got the assignment to B5.

RJDiogenes · September 14 2008, 10:47 AM

The end of the Shadow War was possibly my favorite part of Babylon 5. For one thing, it illustrated the weakness and insecurity that lies behind the hunger for power. But, even better, it was a great metaphor for the times we live in: It showed Humanity trapped between two extreme and ridiculous ideologies, and it gave us the proper response: "Get the hell out of our galaxy."

stj · September 14 2008, 08:06 PM

^^^^Whatever would those two ideologies now trapping humanity be?

As to the main topic, remember the most brilliant victory is the one won without fighting. Any notion that a satisfactory climax involves the humans actually defeating the Vorlons and the Shadows is childish. A major point of the series is that the Shadows and the Vorlons keep playing war games because they aren't paying any price for it. If either the Shadows or the Vorlons attempted to continue their attack on the supporters of the other, then they would be facing the combined might of the enemy (alone more or less equal,) the united lesser races, and the remnant First Ones brought by Ivanova. That coalition would exact altogether too high a price for their glorified hobby. The only way Shadows and Vorlons could continue is to make an agreement---then the lesser races, even with the First Ones, wouldn't have a chance. But then, if the Shadows and Vorlons could have agreed, would there have been a cycle of wars in the first place?

The climax is better than thrilling---it's honest and inevitable.

RJDiogenes · September 14 2008, 10:18 PM

stj wrote:

^^^^Whatever would those two ideologies now trapping humanity be?

Why, Coke and Pepsi, of course.

Jan · September 14 2008, 10:48 PM

RJDiogenes wrote:

stj wrote:

^^^^Whatever would those two ideologies now trapping humanity be?

Why, Coke and Pepsi, of course.

Tsk-tsk...Green and Purple!

Jan

Meredith · September 15 2008, 04:04 AM

RJDiogenes wrote:

stj wrote:

^^^^Whatever would those two ideologies now trapping humanity be?

Why, Coke and Pepsi, of course.

Damn Vorlons and their Coke and Damn Shadows and their Pepsi.

I wonder who drinks generic soda?

Skywalker · September 15 2008, 04:10 AM

Meredith wrote:

RJDiogenes wrote:

stj wrote:

^^^^Whatever would those two ideologies now trapping humanity be?

Why, Coke and Pepsi, of course.

Damn Vorlons and their Coke and Damn Shadows and their Pepsi.

I wonder who drinks generic soda?

Trek aliens.

RoJoHen · September 15 2008, 05:07 AM

The Drazi drink RC Cola.

Meredith · September 15 2008, 05:31 AM

RoJoHen wrote:

The Drazi drink RC Cola.

Purple Drazi drink RC Cola, Green Drazi drink Diet RC Cola!

middyseafort · September 15 2008, 06:13 AM

Skywalker wrote:

Meredith wrote:

RJDiogenes wrote:

Why, Coke and Pepsi, of course.

Damn Vorlons and their Coke and Damn Shadows and their Pepsi.

I wonder who drinks generic soda?

Trek aliens.

Shasta!

RJDiogenes · September 15 2008, 09:42 AM

Jan wrote:

RJDiogenes wrote:

stj wrote:

^^^^Whatever would those two ideologies now trapping humanity be?

Why, Coke and Pepsi, of course.

Tsk-tsk...Green and Purple!

Red Drazi and Blue Drazi.

Meredith wrote:

Damn Vorlons and their Coke and Damn Shadows and their Pepsi.

I wonder who drinks generic soda?

Well, the pak'ma'ra, but that kind of goes without saying....

Reverend · September 15 2008, 10:08 AM

Pak'ma'ra can only drink cola that has been flat for three days. They're carrion drinkers too, you know.

stonester1 · September 15 2008, 12:43 PM

Preferably after someone has peed in it, too.

Forbin · September 15 2008, 01:29 PM

September 14 2008, 10:19 AM	#47
stonester1 Rear Admiral	Re: End of Shadow War = Lame Yup, the first Kosh WAS a "good guy". Not that his race was evil, they weren't. But they were aloof, detatched and had their own agenda. At one time, they were about the well being of the younger races, but over time, that changed. That is one of the things that made Kosh Naranek such a bleeding heart. He WAS about the well being of the other races and actually cared about them. Even cared about individuals among the other races, which may have even made him unique among his people, and probably a chief reason why he got the assignment to B5. __________________ "New and stirring things are belittled because if they are not belittled, the humiliating question arises, 'Why then are you not taking part in them?' " - H. G. Wells

September 14 2008, 10:47 AM	#48
RJDiogenes Idealistic Cynic and Canon Champion Location: RJDiogenes of Boston	Re: End of Shadow War = Lame The end of the Shadow War was possibly my favorite part of Babylon 5. For one thing, it illustrated the weakness and insecurity that lies behind the hunger for power. But, even better, it was a great metaphor for the times we live in: It showed Humanity trapped between two extreme and ridiculous ideologies, and it gave us the proper response: "Get the hell out of our galaxy." __________________ Please stop by my Gallery and YouTube Page for a visit. And read Trunkards!

September 14 2008, 08:06 PM	#49
stj Rear Admiral Location: the real world	Re: End of Shadow War = Lame ^^^^Whatever would those two ideologies now trapping humanity be? As to the main topic, remember the most brilliant victory is the one won without fighting. Any notion that a satisfactory climax involves the humans actually defeating the Vorlons and the Shadows is childish. A major point of the series is that the Shadows and the Vorlons keep playing war games because they aren't paying any price for it. If either the Shadows or the Vorlons attempted to continue their attack on the supporters of the other, then they would be facing the combined might of the enemy (alone more or less equal,) the united lesser races, and the remnant First Ones brought by Ivanova. That coalition would exact altogether too high a price for their glorified hobby. The only way Shadows and Vorlons could continue is to make an agreement---then the lesser races, even with the First Ones, wouldn't have a chance. But then, if the Shadows and Vorlons could have agreed, would there have been a cycle of wars in the first place? The climax is better than thrilling---it's honest and inevitable. __________________ Morals are what you do to other people. Other people, what we call society, are essential to human happiness. Therefore, morals are the path to happiness. My morals, your happiness; your morals, my happiness: It's a fair trade.

September 15 2008, 05:07 AM	#54
RoJoHen Awesome Location: Wherever life takes me	Re: End of Shadow War = Lame The Drazi drink RC Cola. __________________ I am the Quintessential Admiral. Get ready to grow your EQUINOX BEARD!

September 15 2008, 10:08 AM	#58
Reverend Rear Admiral Location: UK	Re: End of Shadow War = Lame Pak'ma'ra can only drink cola that has been flat for three days. They're carrion drinkers too, you know. __________________ Star Trek Logos - Dark Knight Adventures - DeviantArt

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September 15 2008, 12:43 PM	#59
stonester1 Rear Admiral	Re: End of Shadow War = Lame Preferably after someone has peed in it, too. __________________ "New and stirring things are belittled because if they are not belittled, the humiliating question arises, 'Why then are you not taking part in them?' " - H. G. Wells

September 15 2008, 01:29 PM	#60
Forbin Admiral Location: I said out, dammit!	Re: End of Shadow War = Lame __________________ My kitbashes: http://www.inpayne.com/models/kitbash/trekpage.html My Kitbash Wallpapers: http://www.inpayne.com/models/wallpa...allpapers.html My kitbash calendar: http://inpayne.com/calendar/kbcalendar2013.html