RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 141,522
Posts: 5,512,261
Members: 25,138
Currently online: 410
Newest member: Tosty82

TrekToday headlines

Captain Kirk’s Boldest Missions
By: T'Bonz on Dec 25

Trek Paper Clips
By: T'Bonz on Dec 24

Sargent Passes
By: T'Bonz on Dec 23

QMx Trek Insignia Badges
By: T'Bonz on Dec 23

And The New Director Of Star Trek 3 Is…
By: T'Bonz on Dec 23

TV Alert: Pine On Tonight Show
By: T'Bonz on Dec 22

Retro Review: The Emperor’s New Cloak
By: Michelle on Dec 20

Star Trek Opera
By: T'Bonz on Dec 19

New Abrams Project
By: T'Bonz on Dec 18

IDW Publishing March 2015 Comics
By: T'Bonz on Dec 17


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Welcome to the Trek BBS! > General Trek Discussion

General Trek Discussion Trek TV and cinema subjects not related to any specific series or movie.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old September 9 2008, 08:37 PM   #1
Austin 3:16
Commander
 
Austin 3:16's Avatar
 
Location: Tampa, Florida USA
Why were there some corrupt admirals in Star Trek?

I always found it funny, yet strange, that we saw a good amount of corrupt admirals in the Star Trek shows. You would figure that at that point in human history, when humans have decided to put aside their petty differences towards a better future for the human race, humanity would have evolved to a point where selfless interests would come first rather than selfish interests.

Was it being implied that no matter how enlightened humanity gets, there will always be some degree of corruption among us?
__________________
What?
Austin 3:16 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 9 2008, 09:00 PM   #2
Space Cowboy
Lieutenant Commander
 
Space Cowboy's Avatar
 
Re: Why were there some corrupt admirals in Star Trek?

Yeah, I see it as while society as a whole is great and good, there'll always be a few bad apples. Unfortunately, the bad apples tend to be ambitious and frequently make flag rank.
Space Cowboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 9 2008, 09:09 PM   #3
Dale
Vice Admiral
 
Dale's Avatar
 
Location: Mt. Baldy, CA
Re: Why were there some corrupt admirals in Star Trek?

Power corrupts, and the corrupt often seek power... even in the "enlightened 24th."
__________________
For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. - 2 Timothy 4:3
Dale is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 9 2008, 09:54 PM   #4
Bacl
Fleet Captain
 
Bacl's Avatar
 
Location: Wehnimer's Landing, Elanthia
Re: Why were there some corrupt admirals in Star Trek?

Star Trek always had an undercurrent of "Once you get behind a desk...you lose touch, and lose yourself."

The uninformed or detached admiral was common as a result of this philosophy. The perfect foil to Picard or Kirk is a superior who "Just doesn't see it that way" from their comfy desk on Earth.
__________________
What Magic Sleeves Are The Best? A detailed Compare & Contrast here: http://youtu.be/3bu1h0gtu2U and the WORST MTG Sleeves In The World: http://youtu.be/Muq9BxXL0FQ as well!
Bacl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 9 2008, 10:01 PM   #5
Nedersong
Captain
 
Re: Why were there some corrupt admirals in Star Trek?

If you listen to their justifications for their corruption, they always feel as if they're being selfless and doing it for a much larger issue, such as the Admiral in Insurrection. But I feel as if that particular admiral had known about the bloodfeud he might have called it off.
Nedersong is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 9 2008, 10:26 PM   #6
Cyke101
Rear Admiral
 
Cyke101's Avatar
 
Re: Why were there some corrupt admirals in Star Trek?

In TNG and DS9, to me it seemed that for every bad Admiral, there was a good Admiral. Oh, and Hansen can kick the crud out of Leyton ANY day.

Admiral Ross is a whole other can of worms. I'll leave that up to all of you.
Cyke101 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 9 2008, 10:30 PM   #7
TGTheodore
Writer
 
TGTheodore's Avatar
 
Location: TGTheodore
Re: Why were there some corrupt admirals in Star Trek?

The nuts and bolts answer: later creative folks found it hard (or boring) to keep the "we've solved all our problems" aspect of Trek intact. It's much easier to break a rule than to uphold it.

So they decided to start putting chinks into the Federation and Starfleet's shining armor.

For better or worse.

--Ted
__________________
Writer/Composer/Lyricist/Librettist
SNW IV, V, VI
TGTheodore is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 9 2008, 10:32 PM   #8
Dale
Vice Admiral
 
Dale's Avatar
 
Location: Mt. Baldy, CA
Re: Why were there some corrupt admirals in Star Trek?

TG Theodore wrote: View Post
The nuts and bolts answer: later creative folks found it hard (or boring) to keep the "we've solved all our problems" aspect of Trek intact. It's much easier to break a rule than to uphold it.

So they decided to start putting chinks into the Federation and Starfleet's shining armor.

For better or worse.

--Ted
Insert racist joke here.

He's right, though... an internal antagonist can make for some good storytelling and avoid "forehead of the week" problems.
__________________
For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. - 2 Timothy 4:3
Dale is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 9 2008, 11:59 PM   #9
JNG
Chief of Staff, Starfleet Command
 
Re: Why were there some corrupt admirals in Star Trek?

I never thought any of the admirals seemed to be acting out of "selfish interests," exactly; I believed they were just more willing to use their influence to push through agendas that, while understandable, sometimes ran counter to the deeply held beliefs of Our Heroes. Pressman in "The Pegasus" is an interesting example; I believe he really thought he needed to push through that phase cloak research to protect the Federation, even though I also think he was wrong to break the treaty. Dougherty wanted to save lives and I think that just spiraled out of control, albeit inevitably from the moment the Federation first compromised its principles out of expediency. In "I, Borg" Picard was kind of acting like this until his crew convinced him the planned anti-Borg measures, while arguably necessary, had a moral cost that was too high.

And sure, on top of that there are going to be a few bad apples. I just find it hard to believe that any of them could make it to starship captain or similar position, let alone admiral. Trek often falls back on mental illness for the reason people misbehave.
JNG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 10 2008, 01:55 AM   #10
Arpy
Rear Admiral
 
Re: Why were there some corrupt admirals in Star Trek?

This kind of annoyed me as well...wouldn't admirals be even better human beings than those below them? I always thought it should be the ensigns that were the ones making the biggest mistakes - were the ones who'd stray furthest from the evolved pack.

At the very least, we should have occasionally seen an admiral or someone at HQ that showed us why he's there and our heroes haven't achieved his level of advancement. I always liked the idea of a Federation councilor being like one of Socrates's philosopher kings.

Sincerely,
An idealistic fool.
Arpy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 10 2008, 03:38 AM   #11
Krieg1981
Commodore
 
Krieg1981's Avatar
 
Location: The Abyss.
Re: Why were there some corrupt admirals in Star Trek?

I'm glad there is a certain amount of corruption, it wouldn't be nearly as believable without human foibles! Besides, nefarious plots always work better when high ranking officers are involved. Opens more doors!
__________________
"How can people learn of my atrocities?"
Krieg1981 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 10 2008, 04:35 AM   #12
TGTheodore
Writer
 
TGTheodore's Avatar
 
Location: TGTheodore
Re: Why were there some corrupt admirals in Star Trek?

For me is was like they gave up. They couldn't maintain the ideal and use external antagonists, so they broke down and essentially said "We were just kidding. We still suck as a planetary race."

--Ted
__________________
Writer/Composer/Lyricist/Librettist
SNW IV, V, VI
TGTheodore is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 10 2008, 06:12 AM   #13
Rķu rķu, chķu
Fleet Admiral
 
Rķu rķu, chķu's Avatar
 
Location: Mr. Laser Beam is in the visitor's bullpen
View Rķu rķu, chķu's Twitter Profile
Re: Why were there some corrupt admirals in Star Trek?

Cyke101 wrote: View Post
In TNG and DS9, to me it seemed that for every bad Admiral, there was a good Admiral. Oh, and Hansen can kick the crud out of Leyton ANY day.

Admiral Ross is a whole other can of worms. I'll leave that up to all of you.
Forget all of those guys. Admiral Forrest was the best of the good ones. He's the Optimus Prime of admirals.
__________________
"A hot dog at the ballpark is better than a steak at the Ritz." - Humphrey Bogart
Rķu rķu, chķu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 10 2008, 06:25 AM   #14
Herkimer Jitty
Rear Admiral
 
Herkimer Jitty's Avatar
 
Location: Dayglow, New California Republic
Send a message via Windows Live Messenger to Herkimer Jitty
Re: Why were there some corrupt admirals in Star Trek?

Well, in my opinion, the whole "humanity is perfect angle" was really really pretentious. Especially in Voyager and Enterprise, where every single alien race was wrong, and we were always right and they almost always learned their lesson. TOS and DS9 had the best approach to characters, IMO. They were evolved people, but had flaws, and didn't always make the right decision.

Internal conflicts are bound to happen, no matter how "perfect" your society is. Conflict is part of human nature, whether it be violent or not. We disagree with each other, because each and every single person out of the 6 billion beings on this planet has their own mind, with their own ideas and their own perception. If there was a world without conflict whatsoever, it would be a world without creativity, and without a dynamic. It would be dead, and it would be sterile.
__________________
STAR TREK: 1964-1965½, 1966-1969, Jan. 21-23 1972, 1979-2001, 2003-2005, 2009-?
Herkimer Jitty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 10 2008, 06:36 AM   #15
broberfett
Vice Admiral
 
broberfett's Avatar
 
Location: Relaxing in Slave I listening to Holy Diver
Re: Why were there some corrupt admirals in Star Trek?

The Admirals are "The Man" and the Man is getting us down.
__________________
sometimes in real life a villain will burn your house to the ground, kill your family, rape your wife, and shoot your dog and then laugh because he liked it. Some people are just assholes.
broberfett is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 08:06 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.