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Old September 8 2008, 02:25 AM   #1
Nedersong
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Trek History Was Altered (Yet Again)

I think I know the reason why there was no Khan in ST IV and n0 WW III.

The temporal cold war.

Aliens tampered with our history man. Yet they created a parodox in that the Federation still remembers the Genetics Wars on the 1990s.

Woooooo....
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Old September 8 2008, 02:29 AM   #2
Temis the Vorta
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Re: Trek History Was Altered (Yet Again)

There are some elements in Star Trek that must be ignored. TCW is one.

VOY is another.

That is all.
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Old September 8 2008, 02:38 AM   #3
M
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Re: Trek History Was Altered (Yet Again)

Nedersong wrote: View Post
no Khan in ST IV
Why should he be there? According to Memory Alpha, Khan was the absolute ruler of more than one-quarter of Earth's population from 1992 to 1996. Star Trek IV was set in 1986.

Nedersong wrote: View Post
n0 WW III [in ST IV]
Again, why should it be there? According to Memory Alpha World War III lasted from 2026 through 2053.
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Old September 8 2008, 07:36 AM   #4
Timo
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Re: Trek History Was Altered (Yet Again)

Indeed, none of the half-assed "predictions" made in early Trek shows have been contradicted by other Trek shows, even though they have not come to pass in reality.

There's nothing to suggest, for example, that Khan didn't take over a bigger part of the world than Genghis fifteen years ago, or that humans didn't launch interstellar probes six years ago. Or that a guy named Henry Starling didn't basically single-handedly invent modern computing and then mysteriously disappear in 1996. Or that mastery of inertia and gravity wasn't part of the 1990s top technology.

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Old September 8 2008, 07:57 AM   #5
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Re: Trek History Was Altered (Yet Again)

NCC-1701 wrote: View Post
Nedersong wrote: View Post
no Khan in ST IV
Why should he be there? According to Memory Alpha, Khan was the absolute ruler of more than one-quarter of Earth's population from 1992 to 1996. Star Trek IV was set in 1986.
Maybe this is where the past was altered. Voyager arrives in 1996 in "Future's End" to find a relatively unaffected Los Angeles. Now, either Khan never got as far as the US or Starling's artificially rapid development of computing technology somehow prevented Khan and the other Augments from seizing power.

My guess is that Chronowerx hired some people (scientists) who would have otherwise worked on the Eugenics programme.
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Old September 8 2008, 08:18 AM   #6
Timo
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Re: Trek History Was Altered (Yet Again)

Or then Chronowerx was one of the major forces behind the eugenics project. And perhaps Khan was allies with California at the time, rather than enemies.

More probably, though, Khan was indeed enemies, and was in the process of being usurped that year - which meant he no longer had anything like global influence. And nothing indicates he ever had anything to do with the United States anyway.

And it was the year by the end of which Khan left Earth at the latest. What would we expect - headlines screaming "Eugenics Wars STILL over! Khan Singh suspected DEAD for the ninth successive month! Read all about the lack of conflict on page 65!"?

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Old September 8 2008, 09:21 AM   #7
USS KG5
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Re: Trek History Was Altered (Yet Again)

NCC-1701 wrote: View Post
Why should he be there? According to Memory Alpha, Khan was the absolute ruler of more than one-quarter of Earth's population from 1992 to 1996. Star Trek IV was set in 1986.
If he secretly controlled parts of India and China he could easily cover a quarter of the world's population, that is my favoured explanation for it.

It is possible what was left of his followers rose to power in Asia again in the "post atomic horror" - explaining the scenes from Farpoint.
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Old September 8 2008, 11:52 AM   #8
Timo
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Re: Trek History Was Altered (Yet Again)

The scenes where a white judge whose power stems from the guns of white soldiers entertains a white audience with a show that features two Asian-looking gong players? What do those scenes have to do with China or India?

I mean, if there was a black court bailiff in Matlock, would this indicate that there have been revolts spanning the entire United States and the power has moved to the hands of the African-Americans?

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Old September 8 2008, 05:02 PM   #9
Mike Farley
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Re: Trek History Was Altered (Yet Again)

Also, WWI and WWII both left the continental United States untouched, maybe the Eugenics War was the same.
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Old September 8 2008, 05:50 PM   #10
Nedersong
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Re: Trek History Was Altered (Yet Again)

Nah. I'd just like to see some reference to the Eugenics wars whenever they travel to the 1990s, such as some headlines, because if it was such a huge event then nobody would've been left untouched.

Now America may have sent troops to aid her allies, but that should've made huge headlines, such as the Iraq wars.
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Old September 8 2008, 07:04 PM   #11
USS KG5
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Re: Trek History Was Altered (Yet Again)

Timo wrote: View Post
The scenes where a white judge whose power stems from the guns of white soldiers entertains a white audience with a show that features two Asian-looking gong players? What do those scenes have to do with China or India?
The judge was white because he was Q, a white guy when chatting to Picard and Co - and the guards being black, and the general architecture have always suggested far east to me - do you think it is supposed to portray the USA??

I mean, if there was a black court bailiff in Matlock, would this indicate that there have been revolts spanning the entire United States and the power has moved to the hands of the African-Americans?
Ask me after November.
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Old September 8 2008, 07:16 PM   #12
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Re: Trek History Was Altered (Yet Again)

Hermiod wrote: View Post
NCC-1701 wrote: View Post
Nedersong wrote: View Post
no Khan in ST IV
Why should he be there? According to Memory Alpha, Khan was the absolute ruler of more than one-quarter of Earth's population from 1992 to 1996. Star Trek IV was set in 1986.
Maybe this is where the past was altered. Voyager arrives in 1996 in "Future's End" to find a relatively unaffected Los Angeles. Now, either Khan never got as far as the US or Starling's artificially rapid development of computing technology somehow prevented Khan and the other Augments from seizing power.

My guess is that Chronowerx hired some people (scientists) who would have otherwise worked on the Eugenics programme.
From Memory Alpha:
A model of a DY-100 appeared on a window sill of the office where Rain Robinson worked, at the Griffith Observatory in California in 1996. She also had a photograph of the launch of a DY-100 attached with tape to a cabinet. (VOY: "Future's End") A photograph of the same DY-100 launch was in the 602 Club, along with many other space achievements, like the NX-Alpha, the Phoenix, and USS Enterprise (XCV 330). (ENT: "First Flight")
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Old September 8 2008, 07:18 PM   #13
Timo
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Re: Trek History Was Altered (Yet Again)

The judge was white because he was Q, a white guy when chatting to Picard and Co - and the guards being black, and the general architecture have always suggested far east to me - do you think it is supposed to portray the USA??
Britain would actually be my guess, judging by the robes, the lion motif on the throne and so on. Black guards? I thought there were four - two young white fellers who get to shot to death an older white, red-bearded feller, plus one guy who does seem darker but whom I didn't remember being negroid.

if it was such a huge event then nobody would've been left untouched.
What would "touched" mean? Twenty minutes of TV coverage per day is what we got out of Iraq, max. None of that showed on the streets. Headlines? On what papers? The ones covering Braxton?

Granted, Neelix does that channel-surfing thing and misses blatant examples of Khan Singh portraits or scenes of supermen in superfights, but odds are that he'd (we'd) have missed 9/11 on 9/12 on such a brief search.

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Old September 8 2008, 08:45 PM   #14
USS KG5
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Re: Trek History Was Altered (Yet Again)

Timo wrote: View Post
Britain would actually be my guess, judging by the robes, the lion motif on the throne and so on. Black guards? I thought there were four - two young white fellers who get to shot to death an older white, red-bearded feller, plus one guy who does seem darker but whom I didn't remember being negroid.
I would not guess Britain from that (being British I might add). It does not carry a flavour of Britain to me, and the guards uniforms looks very much like the armour of Genghis Khan's army to me.

It is of course possible that Q was bringing up a slightly unfair example and that the kangaroo court as depicted was quite common one way or another in the aftermath of WW3 all over, Q just liked the style of the example he chose!

Presumably while society recovered communities got smaller and even self-sustained, and while some like Zefram Cochrane's had sufficient resources to build a spaceship, others started to degenerate to an almost medieval state.
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Old September 8 2008, 08:50 PM   #15
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Re: Trek History Was Altered (Yet Again)

I think the Eugenics Wars trilogy does a fine job of showing how controlling a quarter of the Earth's population can be accomplished without big headlines about it, and how not all wars are fought with thousands of troops facing off on a battlefield.
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