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Old September 9 2008, 04:21 PM   #16
Galactus
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Re: What are Captain America's politics?

Are they ever going to fixed the Marvel Universe or is it going to be screwed up from now on. Marvel has finally gotten old so they can't keep having characters live in real time. The idea of trying to even keep all of this straight hurts my head. I mean Thor in Oklahoma, come on. When will they stop trying to make realistic comics.
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Old September 9 2008, 05:32 PM   #17
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Re: What are Captain America's politics?

Cap is an old school conservative or rather democrat from the 40s and adheres closely to the views of the people of that era.

He's an extreme black/white person, he'll take clear stances on anything and doesn't leave room for ambiguity.

Politically he may be a conservative (in the true meaning of the word and not today's Karl Rove/Bush conservatism) but socially he's very liberal. He merits people on character and not on skin tone yet he supports a firm stance against anyone trying to hurt America.

He repeatedly went against the US government when he perceived them doing something un-american (so far as to take off his uniform and adopt a different identity out of protest) and if he were in action after WW2 he'd have a fit about McCarthy and Nixon (and probably even the Vietnam War).
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Old September 9 2008, 05:33 PM   #18
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Re: What are Captain America's politics?

When enough fans stop demanding it.
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Old September 9 2008, 07:19 PM   #19
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Re: What are Captain America's politics?

Turtletrekker wrote: View Post
AFAIC, Tony Stark became the vindication of all of Magneto's fears about humans enslaving mutants (and by extension in this case, all super-humans). You might not agree with Magneto's methods (I don't), and you might even oppose him when he strikes (I would), but you can never say that he doesn't have a legitimate reason for his fears for the future. Not anymore. Tony Stark has proved him right.
Ironically, mutants are exempt from the SHRA.
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Old September 9 2008, 07:27 PM   #20
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Re: What are Captain America's politics?

Cap is for America and the American Dream.

As an icon he knows he has to remain neutral.

Steve Rogers on the other hand..
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Old September 9 2008, 08:11 PM   #21
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Re: What are Captain America's politics?

Galactus wrote: View Post
Are they ever going to fixed the Marvel Universe or is it going to be screwed up from now on. Marvel has finally gotten old so they can't keep having characters live in real time.

eh? Characters in marvel comics have *never* lived in real time - over the first ten years or so (till about Peter gets to college), you have an appromixation of it - but that's over 30 years ago!
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Old September 9 2008, 08:31 PM   #22
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Re: What are Captain America's politics?

Norrin Radd wrote: View Post
Since most comic book writers are liberal, he tends to lean liberal.
This smacks of generality and is the same league as "the liberal media."

There have been comic creators who have had a more conservative bent as well. Steve Dikto, for example. He was a staunch Objectivist, the philosophy of Ayn Rand who herself was very capitalistic and popular in conservative circles. His characters The Question and Mr. A are the embodiment of that philosophy. You are lumping all comic book writers into on generalized category.

And some writers are able to put aside their personal politics and write characters who are outside of it. For example, Alan Moore who wrote the pastiche Rorschach (a more hardline version of The Question and Mr. A).
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Old September 9 2008, 09:06 PM   #23
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Re: What are Captain America's politics?

Galactus wrote: View Post
I didn't read any of it, but from what I gathered it wasn't the idea of having a trained superhero force, it was the idea of forcing super humans to fight for the government whether they intended to fight crime or not, because of their abilities.
Trent Roman wrote: View Post
If it had only been registration, I would have agreed with Iron Man's side--government has a legitimate interest in knowing what, in its territory, can cause damage on the scale of superhumans--but the minute they started turning registration into the fascist glee club that is the Fifty State Initiative and detaining people over what are basically ideological differences, creating a system of indefinite incarceration for political prisoners, they lost the moral high ground--precipitously.
I won't say that Tony's methods weren't shit. They were. But in the end I had to go with his side because of the benefits it offered. And I kinda feel like a bastard for saying this but since the superheroes had abilities that could be used to fight crime, why shouldn't they be drafted into service?

IIRC, Tony said the trans-dimensional prison holding superheroes who resisted registration was only a temporary thing, meant to demonstrate the strength of a prison that would finally hold super-villains. One of his points was that it was getting ridiculous to have to keep putting sv's in jails that they kept breaking out of.
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Old September 9 2008, 09:12 PM   #24
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Re: What are Captain America's politics?

Cicero wrote: View Post
Turtletrekker wrote: View Post
AFAIC, Tony Stark became the vindication of all of Magneto's fears about humans enslaving mutants (and by extension in this case, all super-humans). You might not agree with Magneto's methods (I don't), and you might even oppose him when he strikes (I would), but you can never say that he doesn't have a legitimate reason for his fears for the future. Not anymore. Tony Stark has proved him right.
Ironically, mutants are exempt from the SHRA.
Only because after the events of House of M they were already essentially registered before the SHRA was put into effect.
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Old September 9 2008, 10:18 PM   #25
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Re: What are Captain America's politics?

Pensive wrote: View Post
Galactus wrote: View Post
I didn't read any of it, but from what I gathered it wasn't the idea of having a trained superhero force, it was the idea of forcing super humans to fight for the government whether they intended to fight crime or not, because of their abilities.
Trent Roman wrote: View Post
If it had only been registration, I would have agreed with Iron Man's side--government has a legitimate interest in knowing what, in its territory, can cause damage on the scale of superhumans--but the minute they started turning registration into the fascist glee club that is the Fifty State Initiative and detaining people over what are basically ideological differences, creating a system of indefinite incarceration for political prisoners, they lost the moral high ground--precipitously.
I won't say that Tony's methods weren't shit. They were. But in the end I had to go with his side because of the benefits it offered. And I kinda feel like a bastard for saying this but since the superheroes had abilities that could be used to fight crime, why shouldn't they be drafted into service?

IIRC, Tony said the trans-dimensional prison holding superheroes who resisted registration was only a temporary thing, meant to demonstrate the strength of a prison that would finally hold super-villains. One of his points was that it was getting ridiculous to have to keep putting sv's in jails that they kept breaking out of.
Well.. since Civil War was written so differently by different writers we have two versions of the SHRA.

One says that Superheroes need to register, be evaluated and then have a choice to either work for the government or forever suspend their superheroics.

The other says the same only you don't get to make the latter choice..you either join the government or are imprisoned.

Since the 2nd version apparently offered more drama and discussion the first version hasn't been seen anywhere except in Spiderman "Road to Civil War " (where we see the initial stages of the SHRA when Peter gets employed by Stark and goes to Washington to him to counter the SHRA).

The underlying question however is if the ends justify the means. That question has to be anwered by everybody themselves and i believe it says much about the person which way he/she answers.
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Old September 9 2008, 10:30 PM   #26
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Re: What are Captain America's politics?

I'm no expert, especially on any recent developments in the comic books, but my impression is that he is an old-timey American liberal type of the New Deal Era, but whose values are still applicable to modern day. The underlying theme is to remind Americans of the consistency of our values and that this guy from old times is just as relevant today.

Captain America = Barak Obama
Iron Man = John McCain

Who says comics aren't edumacational!
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Old September 9 2008, 11:50 PM   #27
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Re: What are Captain America's politics?

FPAlpha wrote: View Post
Well.. since Civil War was written so differently by different writers we have two versions of the SHRA.

One says that Superheroes need to register, be evaluated and then have a choice to either work for the government or forever suspend their superheroics.

The other says the same only you don't get to make the latter choice..you either join the government or are imprisoned.

Since the 2nd version apparently offered more drama and discussion the first version hasn't been seen anywhere except in Spiderman "Road to Civil War " (where we see the initial stages of the SHRA when Peter gets employed by Stark and goes to Washington to him to counter the SHRA).

The underlying question however is if the ends justify the means. That question has to be anwered by everybody themselves and i believe it says much about the person which way he/she answers.
I am inconsistent as to whether ends justify means. Sometimes I say yes, other times no. In 616-verse, I said yes because I put myself in the place of non-super humans who wanted to be safer from Krees, Skrulls, supervillains, mutant villains, etc.

I remember the less-fascist SHRA from the Spider-Man issues. It spoke volumes to me that Tony tried to prevent the Act and would have succeeded in staving it off if the school hadn't been blown up. That's why it seemed OOC for Tony to back the stricter SHRA. oy vey with this CW!
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Old September 10 2008, 02:42 AM   #28
A beaker full of death
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Re: What are Captain America's politics?

FPAlpha wrote: View Post
Cap is an old school conservative or rather democrat from the 40s and adheres closely to the views of the people of that era...

Politically he may be a conservative (in the true meaning of the word and not today's Karl Rove/Bush conservatism) but socially he's very liberal. He merits people on character and not on skin tone yet he supports a firm stance against anyone trying to hurt America...
This sounds right to me -- in the literal, not political, meaning of liberalism.



Temis the Vorta wrote: View Post
Captain America = Barak Obama
Iron Man = John McCain
Oh hell no.
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Old September 10 2008, 02:58 AM   #29
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Re: What are Captain America's politics?

A beaker full of death wrote: View Post
FPAlpha wrote: View Post
Cap is an old school conservative or rather democrat from the 40s and adheres closely to the views of the people of that era...

Politically he may be a conservative (in the true meaning of the word and not today's Karl Rove/Bush conservatism) but socially he's very liberal. He merits people on character and not on skin tone yet he supports a firm stance against anyone trying to hurt America...
This sounds right to me -- in the literal, not political, meaning of liberalism.
Both parties are essentially "liberal," so I find it hilarious that "liberal" is somehow a curse-word in some circles.

Temis the Vorta wrote: View Post
Captain America = Barack Obama
Iron Man = John McCain
Oh hell no.
Agreed, Tony Stark doesn't backpedal on his statements and Cap's ears are nowhere near that big.
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Old September 10 2008, 04:04 AM   #30
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Re: What are Captain America's politics?

Now that I think about it, John McCain is the equivalent to Captain America. He was essentially "frozen" for 5 years. For him, America went directly from 1967 to 1973.
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