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Retro Review: Time’s Orphan
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September-October Trek Conventions And Appearances
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Lee Passes
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Star Trek #39 Villain Revealed
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Old September 10 2008, 07:28 AM   #16
TJinPgh
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Re: Shatner Almost Had Part In 'Star Trek XI'

TrekToday wrote: View Post
In addition, there were concerns over canon and the desire to make the storytelling consistent. "The truth is, the story that we were telling required a certain adherence to the Trek canon and consistency of storytelling," said Abrams. "It's funny, a lot of the people who were proclaiming that he must be in this movie were the same people saying it must adhere to canon. Well, his character died on screen. Maybe a smarter group of filmmakers could have figured out how to resolve that."
Procutus wrote: View Post
If Team Abrams is adhering to canon, which apparently they are, then they have no choice but to deal with the fact that Kirk is dead.
I'm sorry, but has anybody here actually WATCHED Star Trek over the last 40 years?

This notion that somebody is dead and that's that. Since when? Every member of TNG and Voyager has died... at least once and lived to talk about it another time.

Tasha Yar (or her offspring) has been resurrected at least 3 times.

Kirk died a couple of times in the original series.

Spock died.

I've said it before, I'll say it again. Any Trek writer worth a darn could have not only figured out a way to bring old Kirk back in about 20 minutes.

Sorry, but this excuse is no less pathetic than the last 50 times he's said it.


Abrams, If you don't want Shatner in this movie, have the balls to say so. Don't hide behind something you couldn't care less about (canon) so you can try and manipulate Trek fans into agreeing with you.

Shatner's demands aside (which Abrams himself admitted weren't unreasonable), the problem here is one that Abrams has already admitted in a non-intentional way.

A couple of weeks ago, when he talked about seeing Nimoy in makeup and saying something along the lines of "OMG, that's Spock!"

It goes back to the fact that, as Abrams himself admitted, everybody knows Kirk and Spock. And, everybody knows Shatner and Nimoy AS Kirk and Spock.

He probably made a mistake by casting Nimoy in this movie, but he probably figured he could get away with it by the non-emotional nature of the role.

You can't do that with Kirk because everything he does is based on one emotion or another. Pine would quickly be upstaged.

Add in the fact that, unlike Quinto, Pine looks nothing like a young Shatner, and the whole thing begins to fall apart.

I do have to wonder what he means by a "certain adherance" to canon.

You either adhere to it, or not.


William Shatner has guts to suggest that he should be "the star" of the new Star Trek film.
That's not what he said. He said the movie should focus on him in a significant way.

Funny that we now criticize Shatner for having the same view of an irrelevent cameo in this flub of a movie as Nimoy had of one in Generations.

Let's hope that the character is given the ending he deserves. It looks like Shatner made sure that he will never see him as Kirk again.
Probably. Although, I'd have to say he could play Kirk any time he wanted to, so long as he was willing to do it for free. Which, of course, is doubtful.

But, with respect to giving the character the ending it deserves, by virtue of what you're saying here, that's not possible.

It's no more possible to give Kirk a different ending than it is to figure out a way to have Shatner have a part in it.

They are one in the same. And, Apparently, Abrams isn't up to the task of figuring out how to make it work.

Last edited by TJinPgh; September 10 2008 at 07:49 AM.
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Old September 11 2008, 12:53 AM   #17
Samuel T. Cogley
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Re: Shatner Almost Had Part In 'Star Trek XI'

Augustus wrote: View Post
I think the last thing Trek needs is a movie with Shatner as the star again...
Hardly.

Even if I disliked Shatner, which I don't, I could still think of a thousand "last things" that would be worse than putting Shatner in the film.
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Old September 11 2008, 10:21 PM   #18
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Re: Shatner Almost Had Part In 'Star Trek XI'

Starbreaker wrote: View Post
Shatner IS Star Trek.

I demand Star Trek XI: SHATNER!!!
........

Please tell me you're joking?

I thought this kind of close-minded-ness went out when we fans accepted TNG?
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Old September 11 2008, 10:27 PM   #19
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Re: Shatner Almost Had Part In 'Star Trek XI'

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: View Post
Augustus wrote: View Post
I think the last thing Trek needs is a movie with Shatner as the star again...
Hardly.

Even if I disliked Shatner, which I don't, I could still think of a thousand "last things" that would be worse than putting Shatner in the film.
True. Shatner's career is hotter now than at any other time. More people know him by name (and by Kirk) than the entire cast of this movie combined (save perhaps Nimoy).

The only way his presence in this movie could possibly hurt it is by pointing out to those who will see it (99% of whom are already Trek fans) that, in the end, there always has been and always will be only one Capt. Kirk.

Further, if a movie with the special effects budget of this thing can't find a way to make one man look younger than he really is (even though DirecTV managed to do it for a fraction of the cost), I really have to question the expertise of those involved.
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Old September 12 2008, 12:11 AM   #20
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Re: Shatner Almost Had Part In 'Star Trek XI'

TJinPgh wrote: View Post
The only way his presence in this movie could possibly hurt it is by pointing out to those who will see it (99% of whom are already Trek fans) that, in the end, there always has been and always will be only one Capt. Kirk.
Nope, that's not it.

If Shatner had been amenable to what the film makers were doing there might have been a part for him, but he had grander ideas. That's fine. They don't need him, and never did.

In May there's going to be a new Capt. Kirk - hopefully, the first of many.
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Old September 12 2008, 03:23 AM   #21
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Re: Shatner Almost Had Part In 'Star Trek XI'

MeanJoePhaser wrote: View Post
They need a transporter accident to seperate cool Shatner from egomanical Shatner.
Fortunately a transporter accident, otherwise known as "Star Trek XI," is scheduled for the near future to separate the actor William Shatner from the character of James T. Kirk. About time, too!
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Old September 12 2008, 03:24 AM   #22
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Re: Shatner Almost Had Part In 'Star Trek XI'

RandyS wrote: View Post
Starbreaker wrote: View Post
Shatner IS Star Trek.

I demand Star Trek XI: SHATNER!!!
........

Please tell me you're joking?

I thought this kind of close-minded-ness went out when we fans accepted TNG?
Who accepted TNG?!? Infidel!
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Old September 12 2008, 03:37 AM   #23
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Re: Shatner Almost Had Part In 'Star Trek XI'

[quote=Starship Polaris;2059080]
TJinPgh wrote: View Post
Nope, that's not it.

If Shatner had been amenable to what the film makers were doing there might have been a part for him, but he had grander ideas. That's fine. They don't need him, and never did.

In May there's going to be a new Capt. Kirk - hopefully, the first of many.
You know, I continue to find this view fascinating.

The notion that Shatner, who had no choice in whether or not Kirk was going to die in Generations (other than to possibly refuse to do the movie), should be gracious and thrilled to see HIS job handed over to somebody else.

There isn't a single person in this forum who, if they did a job for 40 years, some new hotshot manager came along and said "You're being replaced. Spend 20 minutes training your replacement and get out," who would gleefully do it.

We would probably tell them to go F themselves.

Yet, Shatner is supposed to be thrilled about it.

As for whether or not they need him.

No, they don't. I've never claimed they did.

I simply said that I would respect Abrams far more if he had the courage to admit that they don't want him in this movie than to come up with some BS reason as to why he's not.

Will Pine be the first of many others to play the role? Perhaps. Because, this movie won't make anywhere near enough to warrent making another with him in the captain's chair.
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Old September 12 2008, 08:27 AM   #24
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Re: Shatner Almost Had Part In 'Star Trek XI'

^ So you were expecting Shatner to portray a 25-year-old Kirk?
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Old September 12 2008, 10:14 AM   #25
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Re: Shatner Almost Had Part In 'Star Trek XI'

TJinPgh wrote: View Post
I simply said that I would respect Abrams far more if he had the courage to admit that they don't want him in this movie than to come up with some BS reason as to why he's not.
I'm sure you would, but that's not the way things are done in Hollywood. Producers and directors do not say things like that. That would be insulting to the actor. However, they still have to make choices on what kind of movie they want to make and who will be in it, while offending as few people as possible. And more people would be offended if Abrams came out and said he didn't want Shatner in the movie (assuming, of course, that he didn't want Shatner in the movie - which is a big assumption to make).
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Old September 12 2008, 06:48 PM   #26
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Re: Shatner Almost Had Part In 'Star Trek XI'

RandyS wrote: View Post
Starbreaker wrote: View Post
Shatner IS Star Trek.

I demand Star Trek XI: SHATNER!!!
........

Please tell me you're joking?

I thought this kind of close-minded-ness went out when we fans accepted TNG?
Obviously!
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Old September 12 2008, 07:21 PM   #27
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Re: Shatner Almost Had Part In 'Star Trek XI'

[QUOTE=TJinPgh;2059626]
Starship Polaris wrote: View Post
TJinPgh wrote: View Post
Nope, that's not it.

If Shatner had been amenable to what the film makers were doing there might have been a part for him, but he had grander ideas. That's fine. They don't need him, and never did.

In May there's going to be a new Capt. Kirk - hopefully, the first of many.
You know, I continue to find this view fascinating.
Good, because I continue to hold it!

I like to fascinate people - it gives my assistant a chance to do his work.
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Old September 12 2008, 09:56 PM   #28
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Re: Shatner Almost Had Part In 'Star Trek XI'

TJinPgh wrote: View Post

I've said it before, I'll say it again. Any Trek writer worth a darn could have not only figured out a way to bring old Kirk back in about 20 minutes.
And why would they waste 1/6th of the movie on establishing a cameo appearance?


Add in the fact that, unlike Quinto, Pine looks nothing like a young Shatner, and the whole thing begins to fall apart.
Shatner doesn't look like a young Shatner. He looks more like the Jewish Santa.



William Shatner has guts to suggest that he should be "the star" of the new Star Trek film.
That's not what he said. He said the movie should focus on him in a significant way.

Funny that we now criticize Shatner for having the same view of an irrelevant cameo in this flub of a movie as Nimoy had of one in Generations.
...Only completely opposite, Shatner didn't bow out and say good luck, he demanded more and shot his mouth off. This is SHAT we're talkin about, remember? The same complaint, yes, but not the same reaction.
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Old September 13 2008, 12:50 AM   #29
TJinPgh
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Re: Shatner Almost Had Part In 'Star Trek XI'

Aragorn wrote: View Post
^ So you were expecting Shatner to portray a 25-year-old Kirk?
No. I wouldn't be doing the movie at all. At least, not with this kind of budget.

ancient wrote: View Post
TJinPgh wrote: View Post

I've said it before, I'll say it again. Any Trek writer worth a darn could have not only figured out a way to bring old Kirk back in about 20 minutes.
And why would they waste 1/6th of the movie on establishing a cameo appearance?
They wouldn't, which seems to have been both Abrams and Shatner's point, that his presence in the film would require more than a cameo to make work.


Shatner doesn't look like a young Shatner. He looks more like the Jewish Santa.
Insults aside, it explains why Nimoy can appear in the same film with Quinto while Shatner cannot appear along side Pine.

Quinto, if you squint real hard and blur the screen, bears at least some resemblence to a young Nimoy, while playing a role that is, at it's core, non-emotional.

There's nothing about the casting of Pine that says Kirk, in any, way, shape or form.

It would be like casting Sean Connery next to Daniel Craig. It simply wouldn't work.



Funny that we now criticize Shatner for having the same view of an irrelevant cameo in this flub of a movie as Nimoy had of one in Generations.
...Only completely opposite, Shatner didn't bow out and say good luck, he demanded more and shot his mouth off. This is SHAT we're talkin about, remember? The same complaint, yes, but not the same reaction.
If you're looking for me to defend Shatner's well established arrogance, I won't. But, Shatner's demands aside, the movie was going to be made, and Kirk was going to die.

Should Shatner have bowed out instead of making demands? Probably. But, if you think that would have stopped the movie from being made, you're likely mistaken.

Chance are, if Shatner had bowed out of the film, they would have simply re-written the part with Spock getting lost in the Nexus instead of Kirk, and we'd now be discussing how Spock is dead.

They wanted a passing the torch movie. They wanted the person passing the torch to die. Bad as it was, that's what they got.
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Old September 13 2008, 03:23 AM   #30
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Re: Shatner Almost Had Part In 'Star Trek XI'

Temis the Vorta wrote: View Post
RandyS wrote: View Post
Starbreaker wrote: View Post
Shatner IS Star Trek.

I demand Star Trek XI: SHATNER!!!
........

Please tell me you're joking?

I thought this kind of close-minded-ness went out when we fans accepted TNG?
Who accepted TNG?!? Infidel!
All of the fans of ENTERPRISE and VOYAGER apparently.
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