RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 139,560
Posts: 5,423,119
Members: 24,809
Currently online: 492
Newest member: Dobian

TrekToday headlines

Star Trek: Alien Domain Game Announced
By: T'Bonz on Sep 15

Red Shirt Diaries Episode Three
By: T'Bonz on Sep 15

Made Out Of Mudd Photonovel
By: T'Bonz on Sep 15

Takei Has Growth Removed
By: T'Bonz on Sep 15

Retro Review: Tears of the Prophets
By: Michelle on Sep 12

New Wizkids Attack Wing Ships
By: T'Bonz on Sep 12

Coto Drama Sold To Fox
By: T'Bonz on Sep 12

Braga Inks Deal
By: T'Bonz on Sep 12

Remastered Original Series Re-release
By: T'Bonz on Sep 11

UK Trek Ships Calendar Debuts
By: T'Bonz on Sep 10


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Entertainment & Interests > Science Fiction & Fantasy

Science Fiction & Fantasy Farscape, Babylon 5, Star Wars, Firefly, vampires, genre books and film.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old August 30 2008, 11:49 PM   #1
markymarc
Cadet
 
Charisma Carpenter Angel question

Hi, I wasn't sure where to post this question so I guess i'll try here.

Anyway a really old Angel question:

Does anyone know why Charisma Carpenter (Cordelia) did not come back for Angel season 5? (I mean the whole season 5, I know she did come back for 1 episode).

I vaugely remember something about bad blood between her and the writers or something...if anyone can please clear this up. I searched the web and couldn't find anything. Wikipedia says "controversy of her unexplained removal from the show". Could anyone please clear this up?

thanks.
markymarc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 31 2008, 12:00 AM   #2
Michael Chris
Admiral
 
Location: The 'Querq, NM
Re: Charisma Carpenter Angel question

I could have sworn that the studio basically told the show that they must have Spike and they couldn't afford to keep Carpenter.
__________________
To live is Christ, and to die is gain.
Michael Chris is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 31 2008, 12:02 AM   #3
OdoWanKenobi
Ring Slinger
 
OdoWanKenobi's Avatar
 
Location: Ysmault
Re: Charisma Carpenter Angel question

It goes like this:

The original plan for season four was to have Cordelia as the big bad. Then Charisma got pregnant and the writers were forced to work around it, which lead to the Jasmine storyline. This created some tension between the higher ups and Charisma, and she was written out of the show.
__________________
"In Brightest Day, in Blackest Night, no evil shall escape my sight. Let those who worship evil's might, beware my power: Green Lantern's light!"
OdoWanKenobi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 31 2008, 12:05 AM   #4
Dream
Admiral
 
Dream's Avatar
 
Re: Charisma Carpenter Angel question

OdoWanKenobi wrote: View Post
It goes like this:

The original plan for season four was to have Cordelia as the big bad. Then Charisma got pregnant and the writers were forced to work around it, which lead to the Jasmine storyline. This created some tension between the higher ups and Charisma, and she was written out of the show.
I love the first 3 seasons of Angel and was disappointed with whole pregnant Cordy stuff. I kind of wish they had simply hid it during the episodes (like some actresses on other shows do) or had Charisma leave for a while. While the last two seasons were good it could have been much better.
Dream is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 31 2008, 01:36 AM   #5
The Borgified Corpse
Admiral
 
The Borgified Corpse's Avatar
 
Location: Ouch! Forgotten already? You were just down there 20 minutes ago.
Re: Charisma Carpenter Angel question

I've heard 3 conflicting stories:

1.) Carpenter left of her own accord to focus on raising her newborn child that year.

2.) Carpenter (and Vincent Karthaiser) were written off the show because of budget issues in Season 5, like adding Spike and building all those new Wolfram & Hart office sets.

3.) Carpenter & the writers had some major creative differences over how to proceed with her character in Season 5. One rumor said that she just suddenly would have reappeared on the cliff where she was originally going to meet Angel in "Tomorrow" with absolutely no memory of anything that had happened in Season 4.

Whatever the reason, I'm glad she wasn't in Season 5. Cordelia was great in Seasons 1-3 but Season 4 had dragged her through so much muck that I think only a lengthy absence from the show could have really rehabilitated her. Hell, I don't think she had been the same ever since she came back from that trip with Groo in Season 3.
__________________
Kegg: "You're a Trekkie. The capacity to quibble over the minutiae of space opera films is your birthright."
The Borgified Corpse is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 31 2008, 01:51 AM   #6
Guy Gardener
Fleet Admiral
 
Guy Gardener's Avatar
 
Location: In the lap of squalor I assure you.
Re: Charisma Carpenter Angel question

Honestly, I heard she punched Joss, knocked him on his ass after some disagreement about something.

It's quite freaky seeing those wolfram Hart sets still being used on Eli Stone.

They're sure getting their money's use out of them.

What else have they been used in?
__________________
"Glitter is the herpes of arts and craft."

Troy Yingst. My Life as Liz
Guy Gardener is online now   Reply With Quote
Old August 31 2008, 11:58 PM   #7
Thrall
Commodore
 
Thrall's Avatar
 
Location: A Quesada Free Zone.
Re: Charisma Carpenter Angel question

Guy Gardener wrote: View Post
Honestly, I heard she punched Joss, knocked him on his ass after some disagreement about something.

It's quite freaky seeing those wolfram Hart sets still being used on Eli Stone.

They're sure getting their money's use out of them.

What else have they been used in?
Yet another reason I love her. I hope it's true. That pompous creep deserves it. I think the reason the show did so well was because Whedon had minimal involvement with it as it was Minear's and Greenwalt's baby. Yeah I heard a lot of bullshit "Official Stories" but the one that kept coming back was that she got pregnant and Whedon flipped a lid and fired her for it. Charisma, being the classy chick she is, still won't talk about it. Probably because she knows what a fairly big name in Hollywood he is and it's bad karma to trash anyone because they might have friends who doing the hiring some where else.
__________________
"Spider-Man doesn't have fans. He has people who follow him. Like Jesus. Now I have fans! People who adore and worship every little thing I do or say. Like David Koresh. Or The Jonas Brothers."
Thrall is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 1 2008, 01:00 AM   #8
JonathonWally
Admiral
 
JonathonWally's Avatar
 
Location: It's Hard To Be Modest When You're As Good As I Am
View JonathonWally's Twitter Profile Send a message via AIM to JonathonWally Send a message via Windows Live Messenger to JonathonWally
Re: Charisma Carpenter Angel question

markymarc wrote: View Post
Hi, I wasn't sure where to post this question so I guess i'll try here.

Anyway a really old Angel question:

Does anyone know why Charisma Carpenter (Cordelia) did not come back for Angel season 5? (I mean the whole season 5, I know she did come back for 1 episode).

I vaugely remember something about bad blood between her and the writers or something...if anyone can please clear this up. I searched the web and couldn't find anything. Wikipedia says "controversy of her unexplained removal from the show". Could anyone please clear this up?

thanks.
If there was bad blood, which I'm not ruling out, why did she volunteer come in and do the season 4 finale like, just days after giving birth when a body double or other tactic could easily have been used?

I'm was also sad to hear that her appearance in the 100th episode was as a second choice, I'll always enjoy that episode because of how it was the "old Cordy" that we loved pre season 4, and it was a heartbreaking send off really well done in my opinion.
__________________
Living vicariously through myself
I like JonathanWally's secret topic races. It's silly and kind of subversive---kind of like him!-auntiehill
I Aim To Misbehave
Are you hearin me, like I'm hearin you?
JonathonWally is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 3 2008, 12:17 AM   #9
The Borgified Corpse
Admiral
 
The Borgified Corpse's Avatar
 
Location: Ouch! Forgotten already? You were just down there 20 minutes ago.
Re: Charisma Carpenter Angel question

JonathonWally wrote: View Post
I'm was also sad to hear that her appearance in the 100th episode was as a second choice, I'll always enjoy that episode because of how it was the "old Cordy" that we loved pre season 4, and it was a heartbreaking send off really well done in my opinion.
What do you mean, her appearance "was as a second choice"?
__________________
Kegg: "You're a Trekkie. The capacity to quibble over the minutiae of space opera films is your birthright."
The Borgified Corpse is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 3 2008, 03:47 AM   #10
JonathonWally
Admiral
 
JonathonWally's Avatar
 
Location: It's Hard To Be Modest When You're As Good As I Am
View JonathonWally's Twitter Profile Send a message via AIM to JonathonWally Send a message via Windows Live Messenger to JonathonWally
Re: Charisma Carpenter Angel question

The Borgified Corpse wrote: View Post
JonathonWally wrote: View Post
I'm was also sad to hear that her appearance in the 100th episode was as a second choice, I'll always enjoy that episode because of how it was the "old Cordy" that we loved pre season 4, and it was a heartbreaking send off really well done in my opinion.
What do you mean, her appearance "was as a second choice"?
They wanted SMG, they only asked Charisma after SMG was unavailable.
__________________
Living vicariously through myself
I like JonathanWally's secret topic races. It's silly and kind of subversive---kind of like him!-auntiehill
I Aim To Misbehave
Are you hearin me, like I'm hearin you?
JonathonWally is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 3 2008, 04:12 AM   #11
Admiral Buzzkill
Fleet Admiral
 
Re: Charisma Carpenter Angel question

Thrall wrote: View Post
I think the reason the show did so well was because Whedon had minimal involvement with it as it was Minear's and Greenwalt's baby.
It didn't "do so well" - that's why the network demanded that Marsters be brought aboard and still cancelled it in season 5.

Whatever Carpenter's reason for leaving, it did not turn out to be a great career move.

There are only two real reasons that people can dislike Whedon - given that so few of his detractors know him personally - they don't like his writing (particularly his humor) or they somehow resent the fact that he's one of the most talented and entertaining writers in the business.
Admiral Buzzkill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 3 2008, 04:28 AM   #12
Thrall
Commodore
 
Thrall's Avatar
 
Location: A Quesada Free Zone.
Re: Charisma Carpenter Angel question

It didn't "do so well" - that's why the network demanded that Marsters be brought aboard and still cancelled it in season 5.
But hey, that's Marsters for you. Destroying one show anyone can do. Destroying two, well that takes talent.

Whatever Carpenter's reason for leaving, it did not turn out to be a great career move.
Like she had a choice in the matter.

There are only two real reasons that people can dislike Whedon - given that so few of his detractors know him personally - they don't like his writing (particularly his humor) or they somehow resent the fact that he's one of the most talented and entertaining writers in the business.
I don't like him because he's a nihilistic turd with a rape fetish.
__________________
"Spider-Man doesn't have fans. He has people who follow him. Like Jesus. Now I have fans! People who adore and worship every little thing I do or say. Like David Koresh. Or The Jonas Brothers."
Thrall is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 3 2008, 05:31 AM   #13
The Borgified Corpse
Admiral
 
The Borgified Corpse's Avatar
 
Location: Ouch! Forgotten already? You were just down there 20 minutes ago.
Re: Charisma Carpenter Angel question

JonathonWally wrote: View Post
The Borgified Corpse wrote: View Post
JonathonWally wrote: View Post
I'm was also sad to hear that her appearance in the 100th episode was as a second choice, I'll always enjoy that episode because of how it was the "old Cordy" that we loved pre season 4, and it was a heartbreaking send off really well done in my opinion.
What do you mean, her appearance "was as a second choice"?
They wanted SMG, they only asked Charisma after SMG was unavailable.
Really? Wow. I have no idea how that would even work really. The episode was so perfect as Cordelia's return/farewell episode. They wouldn't have had nearly such poignancy if it had been Buffy instead. Plus, I think that Buffy brings out very different aspects of Angel's personality than Cordelia does. "You're Welcome" with Buffy would have been an incredibly different pep talk.

Heck, in retrospect, I'm glad that you never actually get to see Buffy in "The Girl in Question." It's so much funnier and so much more to the point when it's just Angel & Spike talking about her. Because, really, it's about Angel & Spike; Buffy is merely a catalyst.

But Buffy in "You're Welcome" is kinda like that rumor I'd heard that Seven of Nine was originally going to be in Star Trek: Nemesis but Jeri Ryan was unavailable, so they replaced her with Admiral Janeway.
__________________
Kegg: "You're a Trekkie. The capacity to quibble over the minutiae of space opera films is your birthright."
The Borgified Corpse is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 3 2008, 05:38 AM   #14
JonathonWally
Admiral
 
JonathonWally's Avatar
 
Location: It's Hard To Be Modest When You're As Good As I Am
View JonathonWally's Twitter Profile Send a message via AIM to JonathonWally Send a message via Windows Live Messenger to JonathonWally
Re: Charisma Carpenter Angel question

The Borgified Corpse wrote: View Post
JonathonWally wrote: View Post
The Borgified Corpse wrote: View Post

What do you mean, her appearance "was as a second choice"?
They wanted SMG, they only asked Charisma after SMG was unavailable.
Really? Wow. I have no idea how that would even work really. The episode was so perfect as Cordelia's return/farewell episode. They wouldn't have had nearly such poignancy if it had been Buffy instead. Plus, I think that Buffy brings out very different aspects of Angel's personality than Cordelia does. "You're Welcome" with Buffy would have been an incredibly different pep talk.

Heck, in retrospect, I'm glad that you never actually get to see Buffy in "The Girl in Question." It's so much funnier and so much more to the point when it's just Angel & Spike talking about her. Because, really, it's about Angel & Spike; Buffy is merely a catalyst.

But Buffy in "You're Welcome" is kinda like that rumor I'd heard that Seven of Nine was originally going to be in Star Trek: Nemesis but Jeri Ryan was unavailable, so they replaced her with Admiral Janeway.
I completely agree with you, Buffy wouldn't have worked. Cordy was perfect, and that episode was a masterpiece.
__________________
Living vicariously through myself
I like JonathanWally's secret topic races. It's silly and kind of subversive---kind of like him!-auntiehill
I Aim To Misbehave
Are you hearin me, like I'm hearin you?
JonathonWally is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 3 2008, 07:00 AM   #15
Alaedhros
Fleet Captain
 
Alaedhros's Avatar
 
Location: Bloomington, IN, United States
Re: Charisma Carpenter Angel question

Thrall wrote: View Post
There are only two real reasons that people can dislike Whedon - given that so few of his detractors know him personally - they don't like his writing (particularly his humor) or they somehow resent the fact that he's one of the most talented and entertaining writers in the business.
I don't like him because he's a nihilistic turd with a rape fetish.
So, one of the few avowed feminists in Hollywood has a rape fetish? You're gonna have to present your case a little better than that. (Also, I think he has described himself as an existentialist, not a nihilist.)
Alaedhros is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 02:40 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.