RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 138,928
Posts: 5,389,609
Members: 24,720
Currently online: 512
Newest member: MrSpock

TrekToday headlines

New Trek-themed Bobble Heads
By: T'Bonz on Aug 21

IDW Publishing November Trek Comic
By: T'Bonz on Aug 20

Pegg/Wright Trilogy In The Works
By: T'Bonz on Aug 20

Star Trek: The Compendium Rebate Details
By: T'Bonz on Aug 20

Gold Key Archives Volume 2
By: T'Bonz on Aug 19

Takei Documentary Wins Award
By: T'Bonz on Aug 19

Cumberbatch To Voice Khan
By: T'Bonz on Aug 19

Shaun And Ed On Phineas and Ferb
By: T'Bonz on Aug 18

New Ships Coming From Official Starships Collection
By: T'Bonz on Aug 18

Trek Stars Take On Ice Bucket Challenge
By: T'Bonz on Aug 18


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Misc. Star Trek > Trek Literature

Trek Literature "...Good words. That's where ideas begin."

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old August 24 2008, 06:24 PM   #1
bionicbob
Lieutenant
 
SHATNERVERSE CANNON???

Hi, long time reader, first time poster!

I have read all the Shatner Kirk Return novels and greatly enjoyed them. I have only recently started reading the regular Trek Expanded Universe novels again after an absence of many years.

One of the things that attracted me to the current run of novels are the relaunch storylines, along with the very strong continuity being built between them all (something sorely missing back when I use to read them as a kid).

So my question is (and maybe Chris or Keith would be the best to answer) are the SHATNERVERSE novels considered cannon in the Trek Novel Expanded Universe? And if not, WHY NOT?

Also, if not, could this mean a future writer could still bring Kirk back again as part of new storyline? Or was Kirk's return part of a one time deal for Shatner alone to explore?

Personally I would love to see more of Kirk in newly relaunched Trek novel universe.
bionicbob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 24 2008, 06:38 PM   #2
Defcon
Rear Admiral
 
Defcon's Avatar
 
Location: Germany
View Defcon's Twitter Profile
Re: SHATNERVERSE CANNON???

First of all no book is canon (one n ).

Secondly, the Shatnerverse novels more or less exist outside the "normal" book continuity. They stay consistent for many aspects, but all the other novels set post Generations don't have Kirk in them, so you won't see the resurrected Kirk anywhere outside Shatner's books.
Defcon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 24 2008, 06:41 PM   #3
Jaron
Captain
 
Re: SHATNERVERSE CANNON???

Who told you about my ultimate weapon, the Shatnerverse Cannon? The plans were supposed to be top secret!

On a more informative note, here is an excerpt from the Star Trek Books FAQ located at the top of this forum:
Q. What is the Shatnerverse?
A. In order to prevent confusion, those novels written in collaboration between the Reeves-Stevens and William Shatner (which depict Kirk alive following his death in Generations) have been set aside in their own continuity. This way, casual references to Kirk being alive will not slip into other books and confuse the poor readers. However, this has not stopped the Shatnerverse books from referencing other works, including Ship of the Line and The Dominion War Tetralogy.
Jaron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 24 2008, 06:48 PM   #4
bionicbob
Lieutenant
 
Re: SHATNERVERSE CANNON???

Defcon wrote: View Post
First of all no book is canon (one n ).

Secondly, the Shatnerverse novels more or less exist outside the "normal" book continuity. They stay consistent for many aspects, but all the other novels set post Generations don't have Kirk in them, so you won't see the resurrected Kirk anywhere outside Shatner's books.
Oh I completely understand that ALL TREK NOVELS are not official cannon. If it is not on the screen, it does not exist.

I was simply curious if it was cannon within the sphere of the other Trek Novels. As I said before, one of the things I think is wonderfully brilliant of the Trek NOVELS of recent years, is the greater focus on continuity between the various novel series and greater character development that never happened on the screen (ie.Picard/Crusher finally together, Riker's Titan, DS9 season 8 etc.)

So it makes me ask why couldn't Shatner's series be incorporated into this new BOOK continuity? Or atleast bring Kirk back in some other fashion?

I am really curious what the editorial policy is regarding KIRK?
bionicbob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 24 2008, 06:53 PM   #5
Defcon
Rear Admiral
 
Defcon's Avatar
 
Location: Germany
View Defcon's Twitter Profile
Re: SHATNERVERSE CANNON???

bionicbob wrote: View Post
I am really curious what the editorial policy is regarding KIRK?
As I said above the current editorial policy is to ignore the resurrection of Kirk outside the Shatnerverse novels.
Defcon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 24 2008, 06:57 PM   #6
Thrawn
Rear Admiral
 
Thrawn's Avatar
 
Location: Washington, DC
Re: SHATNERVERSE CANNON???

1) Canon. One n. Not cannon.

2) "Canon" is defined as the official body of works in a franchise. There is no "canon within the sphere of the other Trek novels". Canon and continuity are different things. No book is canon, by any definition.

3) That said, now that there are no shows on the air, the books are making a general effort to stick together in terms of continuity. There have been a couple of exceptions to this rule, however. David R. George III's Crucible trilogy is inconsistent with many of the previously published TOS novels, as the decision was made for it to be a celebration of the TV series period, and so it is only consistent with the aired show.

The other exception is the Shatnerverse. No references are made in any other novels to the Shatnerverse (well, there probably are references somewhere, but as a general policy, it's ignored.) By the same token, Kirk won't be brought back in the rest of the novels either; that's a story that the Shatnerverse is telling, and no one else.

4) If you want it to be integrated into the ongoing book continuity, you can feel free to do it inside your own head. Many people have found ways to mentally incorporate the Shatnerverse without any continuity problems. The decision to ignore them in the rest of the universe was not to spurn the Shatner novels or anything like that, it was just to avoid confusion. If you aren't confused, feel free to imagine everything coexisting peacefully.
Thrawn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 24 2008, 06:58 PM   #7
bionicbob
Lieutenant
 
Re: SHATNERVERSE CANNON???

Jaron wrote: View Post
Who told you about my ultimate weapon, the Shatnerverse Cannon? The plans were supposed to be top secret!

On a more informative note, here is an excerpt from the Star Trek Books FAQ located at the top of this forum:
Q. What is the Shatnerverse?
A. In order to prevent confusion, those novels written in collaboration between the Reeves-Stevens and William Shatner (which depict Kirk alive following his death in Generations) have been set aside in their own continuity. This way, casual references to Kirk being alive will not slip into other books and confuse the poor readers. However, this has not stopped the Shatnerverse books from referencing other works, including Ship of the Line and The Dominion War Tetralogy.
Thanks Jaron!

Though I am still curious what Simon & Schuster's (and Paramount) editorial policy for Trek writers is regarding the character of Captain Kirk. Is he dead DEAD? Or is there window to bring him back if the story is right?
bionicbob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 24 2008, 06:59 PM   #8
Dayton Ward
Word Pusher
 
Dayton Ward's Avatar
 
View Dayton Ward's Twitter Profile
Re: SHATNERVERSE CANNON???

^ Outside of the Shatner/Reeves-Stevens novels, Kirk is considered dead after the events of Generations.
__________________
www.daytonward.com

"tlhingAn HoL, Mother F*cker! Do you speak it?!"
Dayton Ward is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 24 2008, 07:32 PM   #9
Deano2099
Commander
 
Re: SHATNERVERSE CANNON???

bionicbob wrote: View Post
So it makes me ask why couldn't Shatner's series be incorporated into this new BOOK continuity?
The most obvious explanation is that Shatner isn't interested in limiting his work to the current novel continuity, as it would have to work both ways.

And there's probably no reason Kirk couldn't be bought back in the novels just as any dead character could feasibly be resurrected, but that probably won't be done as it's been done already with the Shatner books so would be re-treading old ground.
Deano2099 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 24 2008, 09:37 PM   #10
Christopher
Writer
 
Christopher's Avatar
 
Re: SHATNERVERSE CANNON???

One more point: there is no "Star Trek Expanded Universe." "Expanded Universe" is a term specific to Star Wars tie-in fiction, which is subject to a different set of rules of continuity than ST tie-in fiction. In the SW EU, all tie-in works are mandated to treat every other tie-in work ever as part of the same continuity, even when they contradict each other. In ST tie-in fiction, continuity is an option that authors and editors may choose to employ or not employ depending on the project. Most of the books published in the 2000s share a common continuity, but not all of them do, and other tie-ins such as comic books are not necessarily consistent with the novels, but they can be if the authors and editors choose.
__________________
Christopher L. Bennett Homepage -- Site update 4/8/14 including annotations for Rise of the Federation: Tower of Babel

Written Worlds -- My blog
Christopher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 24 2008, 09:39 PM   #11
Therin of Andor
Admiral
 
Therin of Andor's Avatar
 
Location: New Therin Park, Andor (via Australia)
View Therin of Andor's Twitter Profile
Re: SHATNERVERSE CANNON???

Deano2099 wrote: View Post
And there's probably no reason Kirk couldn't be bought back in the novels just as any dead character could feasibly be resurrected, but that probably won't be done as it's been done already with the Shatner books so would be re-treading old ground.
Both "Engines of Destiny" and "Crucible: Kirk" toy with the "Is Kirk really dead if he's in the Nexus?" idea, independent of the Shatnerverse.
__________________
Thiptho lapth! Ian (Entire post is personal opinion)
The Andor Files @ http://andorfiles.blogspot.com/
http://therinofandor.blogspot.com/
Therin of Andor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 24 2008, 11:19 PM   #12
jbrinegar
Lieutenant
 
Location: Austin, TX
Re: SHATNERVERSE CANNON???

I think the SHATNERVERSE CANNON fires giant conventional cannon balls. But rumor is starfleet is working on coverting the SHATNERVERSE CANNON to a SHATNERVERSE PHASER-CANNON since cannon balls have become very scarce in the 24th century. The remaining SHATNERVERSE CANNONs that cannot be upgraded will be used by this guy:

http://www.thehumanmarvels.com/uploa...rds-765070.jpg
__________________
Make it so
jbrinegar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 24 2008, 11:24 PM   #13
Rush Limborg
Vice Admiral
 
Rush Limborg's Avatar
 
Location: The EIB Network
Re: SHATNERVERSE CANNON???

This is probably the millionth time someone asked if books are canon.

Isn't there some way to prevent this from happening again? It usually leads to a heck of a lot of arguments (which often get personal) --and even more headaches. This time we got lucky, but still....
__________________
"I have been wounded but not yet slain. I shall lie here and bleed awhile. Then I shall rise and fight again."

"Forget it, Jake...it's Chinatown."
Rush Limborg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 24 2008, 11:43 PM   #14
Emh
Doctor of TARDIS
 
Emh's Avatar
 
Location: Brussels, Belgium
Send a message via ICQ to Emh Send a message via AIM to Emh Send a message via Windows Live Messenger to Emh Send a message via Yahoo to Emh
Re: SHATNERVERSE CANNON???

Well, we have an FAQ for a reason, but no one ever reads it.
__________________
"Eccleston was a tiger and Tennant was, well, Tigger. Smith [is] an uncoordinated housecat who pretends that he meant to do that after falling off a piece of furniture." - Lynne M. Thomas

"I'm in Hell and it's full of Avons!" - Vila
Emh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 24 2008, 11:44 PM   #15
Garrovick
Guest
 
Re: SHATNERVERSE CANNON???

Rush Limborg wrote: View Post
This is probably the millionth time someone asked if books are canon.

Isn't there some way to prevent this from happening again? It usually leads to a heck of a lot of arguments (which often get personal) --and even more headaches. This time we got lucky, but still....
Doesn't bother me, new people always have questions.

Look at the series forums, many new fans ask questions that were answered 40 years ago.

Let them have their turn.

Besides even some of us old fogies, from way back in the 60s when we watched TOS first run, just count books as more adventures and can be considered "Canon in our minds"!
  Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
shatnerverse

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 02:49 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.