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Old August 21 2008, 03:00 AM   #1
commodore64
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*All* characters make mistakes

Here's a challenge. Type up a mistake or some mistakes your favorite character made and why you think it's a mistake. Think of it as an intellectual challenge.

Please don't type up mistakes of characters who aren't your favorite. I think there are threads a plenty for that.

My favorite character is Archer, and I think he made the following mistakes:
* Not notice T'Pol's drug addiction before Damage
* Not follow-up on T'Pol's drug addiction after Damage
* Help Rajiin
* Self-sacrifice too often
* Clone Trip to make Sim
* "Kill" Sim
* Agree to Orion slave girls on his very large ship
* Taking his dog out on ANIS

I'm sure I'll think of others. You try!
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Last edited by commodore64; August 21 2008 at 06:48 AM.
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Old August 21 2008, 04:06 AM   #2
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Re: *All* characters make mistakes

commodore64 wrote: View Post
Here's a challenge. Type up a mistake or some mistakes your favorite character made and why you think it's a mistake. Think of it as an intellectual challenge.

Please don't type up mistakes of characters who aren't your favorite. I think there are threads a plenty for that.

My favorite character is Archer, and I think he made the following mistakes:
* Not notice T'Pol's drug addiction before Damage
* Not follow-up on T'Pol's drug addiction after Damage
* Help Rajiin
* Self-sacrifice too often
* Clone Trip to make Sim
* "Kill" Sim
* Agree to Orion slave girls on his very large ship
* Taking his dog out on ANIS

I'm sure I'll think of others. You try!
A couple more Archer miscues (since by being Captain, he was the "Decider"):

Trusting Dr. Daedalus.

How about this one; saving T'Pol's life in "Twilight". As heroic and innocent as it was, his doing so lead to the destruction of the entire human race -- in an alternate universe -- before the reset. Of course we all know that Archer wasn't wired in a way that would have allowed him to do anything else, however, it turned out bad. T'Pol was expendable (with respect to the Xindi mission), he wasn't.
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Old August 21 2008, 05:49 AM   #3
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Re: *All* characters make mistakes

i agree with trusting emory as long as he did.
as for rajinn i still believe she used her hypno powers on archer and reed both.
and if he hadnt cloned sim they never would have freed the ship and time and earth would have been destroyed.
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Old August 21 2008, 06:35 AM   #4
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Re: *All* characters make mistakes

Trip:

Unexpected: He should have asked more questions about that electrical thing that happened when Ahlen touched him.

Breaking the Ice: He should have minded his own business about T'Pol's letter; she would have married Koss before Trip had a chance to fall in love with her and think of the grief he could have been spared: no sexperimental lab rat; he wouldn't have to watch T'Pol marry Koss anyway; he wouldn't have to watch baby Elizabeth die...

Desert Crossing: Letting Archer talk him into going to the desert planet. He damn near died.

Two Days and Two Nights: He really shouldn't have fallen for the old "garden in a basement" line.

Dead Stop: He shouldn't have gone exploring on the repair station.

"Precious" Cargo: He should have left the princess in the box.

Stigma: He should have introduced Feezal to Reed.

Cogenitor: He should have learned more about the attitudes of the Vissians before even thinking about approaching Charles.

The Expanse: He should gone to see his family when he got home. It might have helped him to grieve and spared us that stupid VNP crap.

Twilight: He should have listened to Phlox and T'Pol when they tried to tell him that they had found the reset button.

Harbinger: He shouldn't have been doing VNP with Cole. It really ticked me off.

E2: He never asked about T'Pold.

Home: He didn't stop T'Pol from marrying Koss.

Demons/Terra Prime: No effort at all to disguise himself or T'Pol. The TP'ers clearly knew who they were, so what made them think they wouldn't be recognized?!

These Ain't The Voyages: He shouldn't have shown up on the set.
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Old August 21 2008, 06:35 AM   #5
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Re: *All* characters make mistakes

commodore64 wrote: View Post
* Not follow-up on T'Pol's drug addiction after Damage
I don't really see how not following up on something he had no idea about in the first place is a mistake? The big mistake was Phlox not reporting it to anybody. Doctor/Patient confidentiality goes right out the window when it has the potential to affect the safe running of the ship, which this most certainly did (and he didn't seem to have any trouble breaking it earlier in the season when he blabbed Trip's sleeping problems to T'Pol against Trip's express wishes in a non-critical time)
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Old August 21 2008, 06:47 AM   #6
commodore64
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Re: *All* characters make mistakes

pookha wrote: View Post
i agree with trusting emory as long as he did.
as for rajinn i still believe she used her hypno powers on archer and reed both.
and if he hadnt cloned sim they never would have freed the ship and time and earth would have been destroyed.
So, what mistakes did Trip make?

I don't really see how not following up on something he had no idea about in the first place is a mistake?
But he did -- at least he knew something was wrong based on the dialog and interaction between Archer and T'Pol. Seems like after knowing that he should've followed up afterward to say, "Everything's good, right?"

The big mistake was Phlox not reporting it to anybody. Doctor/Patient confidentiality goes right out the window when it has the potential to affect the safe running of the ship, which this most certainly did (and he didn't seem to have any trouble breaking it earlier in the season when he blabbed Trip's sleeping problems to T'Pol against Trip's express wishes in a non-critical time)
I think Phlox made a mistake too on not reporting it and that Trip made a mistake by not noticing it beforehand, but that's not what this thread is about. I'm stating my favorite character's mistakes.
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Old August 21 2008, 12:20 PM   #7
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Re: *All* characters make mistakes

commodore64 wrote: View Post
I don't really see how not following up on something he had no idea about in the first place is a mistake?
But he did -- at least he knew something was wrong based on the dialog and interaction between Archer and T'Pol. Seems like after knowing that he should've followed up afterward to say, "Everything's good, right?"
But by the time everything had steadied out enough for him to do that, she already seemed more settled.

The big mistake was Phlox not reporting it to anybody. Doctor/Patient confidentiality goes right out the window when it has the potential to affect the safe running of the ship, which this most certainly did (and he didn't seem to have any trouble breaking it earlier in the season when he blabbed Trip's sleeping problems to T'Pol against Trip's express wishes in a non-critical time)
I think Phlox made a mistake too on not reporting it and that Trip made a mistake by not noticing it beforehand, but that's not what this thread is about. I'm stating my favorite character's mistakes.
I know that Phlox isn't my fave character but I do like him (and in fact all the characters) and it bugs me the most out of anybody's actions throughtout the series so I thought I'd mention it.

As for Trip's mistakes, well I don't think it was a very smart decision for just him and Malcolm to go down to Coridan in "Shadows of P'Jem" That's just asking to get caught in a trap (they were very lucky it was Shran that got to them first).
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Old August 21 2008, 02:27 PM   #8
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Re: *All* characters make mistakes

Archer:

*Withholding the cure in "Dear Doctor."
*Telling the Klingons about Trip's "problem" while on the bridge in "Unexpected." I know it was scripted like that for laughs, but - how humiliating! He should have just referenced some life-or-death problem and not made Trip lift his shirt in full view.

I agree with Lady C on Archer's not noticing T'Pol's addiction. By that time in the season, everyone was acting screwy, and she gave him a perfectly reasonable explanation in The Towel Scene: she hadn't had time to meditate. He already knew that nightly meditation was a necessity for Vulcans: the dialogue in Fusion established that ("You meditate every night?" "Yes." "I think I understand why now"). Her behaviour wasn't so extreme that he'd associate it with the Trellium exposure he'd seen in Impulse.
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Old August 21 2008, 03:45 PM   #9
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Re: *All* characters make mistakes

ohh good god not the towel scene again
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Old August 21 2008, 03:57 PM   #10
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Re: *All* characters make mistakes

JiNX-01 wrote: View Post

Stigma: He should have introduced Feezal to Reed.
LOL! Well-played. Since you already did some Trip stuff, I'll see if I can forge a list for Reed. *racks brain*
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Old August 21 2008, 04:08 PM   #11
commodore64
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Re: *All* characters make mistakes

I agree with Lady C on Archer's not noticing T'Pol's addiction. By that time in the season, everyone was acting screwy, and she gave him a perfectly reasonable explanation in The Towel Scene: she hadn't had time to meditate. He already knew that nightly meditation was a necessity for Vulcans: the dialogue in Fusion established that ("You meditate every night?" "Yes." "I think I understand why now"). Her behaviour wasn't so extreme that he'd associate it with the Trellium exposure he'd seen in Impulse.
When she says she needs to meditate, notice the way Archer says the next line, "Maybe you should find the time."

I think he knew it wasn't meditation she was lacking. And I agree, he may not have known it was trellium, but he knew something was up.
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Old August 21 2008, 05:21 PM   #12
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Re: *All* characters make mistakes

I think the reason for T'Pol's loss of control -- emotional and otherwise -- should have remained a mystery to the fans as well as Archer et.al. for a couple of episodes. I know that I was appalled that Phlox irresponsibly withheld this information despite knowing that Archer depends on T'Pol whenever he leaves the ship. Certainly it proved to be a catastrophic decision in Azati Prime (which unfortunately for the crew becomes her meltdown point).

I'm adding to my list of Trip's mistakes: He obviously never reported T'Pol's inexplicable behavior to Archer either. Had he done so, Archer might have tried harder to learn what was up with her.
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Old August 21 2008, 08:24 PM   #13
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Re: *All* characters make mistakes

commie is a porthos hater!!!!!!!!!!!!

As an Archer fan I agree with your "mistakes" except killing Sim which I agree in principle but do think it was the only choice he had from a dramatic point of view.
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Old August 22 2008, 01:37 AM   #14
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Re: *All* characters make mistakes

Commie's mistakes are many, including her hate of Porthos.

I think you're right about good drama with killing Sim, but -- if anyone should've died, I think it made sense to let Trip die for lots of reasons:
* Trip was already hosed; it took killing Sim to save him
* Sim -- in his short life -- saved the ship, seems like the crew should've given him a little loyalty
* Think of the drama if Trip died?! I know people who hated TATV would be pissed, but I think it would present great conflict for many shows (Archer and Sim, Phlox as a second father and Sim, T'Pol and Sim, Reed and Sim ....) and those who are crazy about the actor would still see him as Sim

Besides, as a John and John fan from Farscape, I would think you'd like that dilemma. :P
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Old August 22 2008, 01:51 AM   #15
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Re: *All* characters make mistakes

Lady Conqueror wrote: View Post
commodore64 wrote: View Post
* Not follow-up on T'Pol's drug addiction after Damage
I don't really see how not following up on something he had no idea about in the first place is a mistake? The big mistake was Phlox not reporting it to anybody. Doctor/Patient confidentiality goes right out the window when it has the potential to affect the safe running of the ship, which this most certainly did (and he didn't seem to have any trouble breaking it earlier in the season when he blabbed Trip's sleeping problems to T'Pol against Trip's express wishes in a non-critical time)

she is already acting odd in azati prime.
he shouldnt left in her charge of the ship.

snort..

i like both trip and archer and have defended both on the board in the past.

and since it seems the faults for both have been listed it dosnt hurt to have an advocate.
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