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Trek Literature "...Good words. That's where ideas begin."

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Old September 6 2008, 11:48 AM   #211
JoeZhang
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Re: Read & Reread "Greater Than The Sum"- My Opinion (Spoilers)

I will never understand why people object to sex scenes in Star Trek
I object to them, not on moral grounds but because they are generally really badly written - thankfully as a rule, Trek does not have sex scenes, the books always (well the ones I've read) always cut to the morning afterwards.

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Old September 6 2008, 01:16 PM   #212
tenmei
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Re: Read & Reread "Greater Than The Sum"- My Opinion (Spoilers)

Heck, I read the James Bond novels and even I object to some of the sex scenes in the latter novels (especially in Never Dream of Dying). I would object to a sex scene within a Trek novel, but I wouldn't object to the allusions of sexual relationships.

I mean, I dislike the character of Trys rather intensely but her sexual adventures are the least of my concerns.
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Old September 6 2008, 01:59 PM   #213
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Re: Read & Reread "Greater Than The Sum"- My Opinion (Spoilers)

JoeZhang wrote: View Post
I object to them, not on moral grounds but because they are generally really badly written - thankfully as a rule, Trek does not have sex scenes, the books always (well the ones I've read) always cut to the morning afterwards.
You missed New Frontier #5: Martyr, I assume?
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Old September 6 2008, 02:33 PM   #214
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Re: Read & Reread "Greater Than The Sum"- My Opinion (Spoilers)

I just finished GTTS this morning. You hit another homerun, Christopher. I believe you got the TNG-R back on track. I knew I could put my fears to rest when I thought this would be just another Borg book. What I like most about GTTS is, even though you had the borg in there, you brought discovery and exploration back to TNG. I really found the entity in this book fascinating.
One thing I do hope is that the characters you brought in stay. One thing I havent liked about the TNG-R is the swapping of all these new characters before you can get a chance to know them. I really like T'Ryssa. To me, she felt a little like a cross between Ro Laren and Sonya Gomez.
I loved the inclusion of Hugh and his Liberated people. It's not often a book can put a smile on my face or give me a pleasant suprise.
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Old September 6 2008, 02:34 PM   #215
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Re: Read & Reread "Greater Than The Sum"- My Opinion (Spoilers)

wizkid wrote: View Post
All forms of sex ed are going to fail. That is why they are called accidents. Castration and being spaed are the only garuntees.
Actually, studies show that sex education substantially reduces the rate of teen pregnancies. Of course it's not an absolute guarantee, because nothing in life ever is. But it definitely makes a meaningful difference.
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Old September 6 2008, 03:54 PM   #216
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Re: Read & Reread "Greater Than The Sum"- My Opinion (Spoilers)

ATimson wrote: View Post
JoeZhang wrote: View Post
I object to them, not on moral grounds but because they are generally really badly written - thankfully as a rule, Trek does not have sex scenes, the books always (well the ones I've read) always cut to the morning afterwards.
You missed New Frontier #5: Martyr, I assume?
Renaissance (Book 10) was the one that was comparatively explicit, while also being admirably nonspecific so the kids could read it and go, "huh?"
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Old September 6 2008, 05:14 PM   #217
JD
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Re: Read & Reread "Greater Than The Sum"- My Opinion (Spoilers)

I've never really gotten Trek's whole anti-sex thing either. But at the same time, I'm glad that the shows didn't try to be sexy very often because more often than not, when they did it it just didn't work. Probably one of the best examples I can come up with would be the Enterpise episode where Hoshi shirt get stuck and pulled off as she's climbing out of a Jeffreies tube. Because I'm sorry but that was just ridiculous.
The books at least have actually handled it in a much more mature manner. In fact that's one of the things I've been liking about the newer books, they've actually been dealing with more mature themes, including sex.
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Old September 6 2008, 05:21 PM   #218
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Re: Read & Reread "Greater Than The Sum"- My Opinion (Spoilers)

JD wrote: View Post
I've never really gotten Trek's whole anti-sex thing either. But at the same time, I'm glad that the shows didn't try to be sexy very often because more often than not, when they did it it just didn't work. Probably one of the best examples I can come up with would be the Enterpise episode where Hoshi shirt get stuck and pulled off as she's climbing out of a Jeffreies tube. Because I'm sorry but that was just ridiculous.
Juveinile is a better word.

And one that I hope I spelled correctly (but suspect I haven't).
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Old September 6 2008, 05:34 PM   #219
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Re: Read & Reread "Greater Than The Sum"- My Opinion (Spoilers)

Yeah that too.
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Old September 6 2008, 05:51 PM   #220
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Re: Read & Reread "Greater Than The Sum"- My Opinion (Spoilers)

wizkid wrote: View Post
All forms of sex ed are going to fail. That is why they are called accidents.
By the same reasoning, all forms of driver's ed will fail, too, because there are always accidents. Yet we don't tell kids "Don't drive until you're an adult, and then just figure it out on your own."
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Old September 6 2008, 06:17 PM   #221
Christopher
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Re: Read & Reread "Greater Than The Sum"- My Opinion (Spoilers)

JD wrote: View Post
I've never really gotten Trek's whole anti-sex thing either. But at the same time, I'm glad that the shows didn't try to be sexy very often because more often than not, when they did it it just didn't work. Probably one of the best examples I can come up with would be the Enterpise episode where Hoshi shirt get stuck and pulled off as she's climbing out of a Jeffreies tube. Because I'm sorry but that was just ridiculous.
Certainly Enterprise was quite juvenile in its attempts at titillation, but none of the other shows came anywhere near those depths. Even VGR, with all its full-length shots of Seven of Nine in her catsuit, rarely contrived gratuitous excuses to get her in her underwear or put her in compromising bondage positions with a male senior officer.
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Old September 6 2008, 09:21 PM   #222
wizkid
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Re: Read & Reread "Greater Than The Sum"- My Opinion (Spoilers)

William Leisner wrote: View Post
wizkid wrote: View Post
All forms of sex ed are going to fail. That is why they are called accidents.
By the same reasoning, all forms of driver's ed will fail, too, because there are always accidents. Yet we don't tell kids "Don't drive until you're an adult, and then just figure it out on your own."
The original poster pointed out that teaching abstinence only has failed and wanted to know why well known political people still say they should teach it. I was making the very point you were making toward me but I should be less dry on the interweb where you can't read into dry sarcasam. Amy, please take no offense to what I just said as it is meant to be constructive and not the other way around.

My point was light hearted that no matter what we teach or do, we will still have problems.

My point about the inner light is also done in the same way. Let's name the 10 best episodes of TNG and see which one's involve sex in a Yar/Data or Riker/Alien way. For curiosity sake only.

Sex scenes are hard to do and I object because I won't be able to hand over a ST TNG novel to my nieces until they are at an age where they can read this. I think Christopher has handled it well though from what I have read so far in GTTS.
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Old September 6 2008, 09:24 PM   #223
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Re: Read & Reread "Greater Than The Sum"- My Opinion (Spoilers)

RandyS wrote: View Post
JD wrote: View Post
I've never really gotten Trek's whole anti-sex thing either. But at the same time, I'm glad that the shows didn't try to be sexy very often because more often than not, when they did it it just didn't work. Probably one of the best examples I can come up with would be the Enterpise episode where Hoshi shirt get stuck and pulled off as she's climbing out of a Jeffreies tube. Because I'm sorry but that was just ridiculous.
Juveinile is a better word.

And one that I hope I spelled correctly (but suspect I haven't).
Juvenile is a better word and best describes Enterprise. Having 7 of 9 on Voyager was handled only moderately better IMHO. If she is going to be a crewman, wear a Star Fleet uniform, not a liquid cast 0.0001" thick film of future spandex.
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Old September 6 2008, 11:30 PM   #224
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Re: Read & Reread "Greater Than The Sum"- My Opinion (Spoilers)

wizkid wrote: View Post
The original poster pointed out that teaching abstinence only has failed and wanted to know why well known political people still say they should teach it.
wizkid wrote: View Post
Amy, please take no offense to what I just said as it is meant to be constructive and not the other way around.
No offense taken, certainly. But I do believe that the abstinence-only approach fails a whole lot more than the information-based approach.
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Old September 7 2008, 01:12 AM   #225
wizkid
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Re: Read & Reread "Greater Than The Sum"- My Opinion (Spoilers)

Amy Sisson wrote: View Post
wizkid wrote: View Post
The original poster pointed out that teaching abstinence only has failed and wanted to know why well known political people still say they should teach it.
wizkid wrote: View Post
Amy, please take no offense to what I just said as it is meant to be constructive and not the other way around.
No offense taken, certainly. But I do believe that the abstinence-only approach fails a whole lot more than the information-based approach.
I think all combined are more effective. As to which approach is better? We may never really know.

Most of my friends that got knocked up at a young age (high school) knew better, were taught how to prevent this in school, and yet still got pregnant. Probably because they were like the Enterprise writers and acted juvenile or gave in to peer pressure and avoided the obvious birth control choices.
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