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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

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Old August 20 2008, 02:31 AM   #61
JuanBolio
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Re: Visual Proof a Resdesign is a good thing

aloha62 wrote: View Post
''oh noes! there is a problem with the nacelle! I will have to get up there, up this long and very tight pylon which isnt wide enough unless i breath in while its flexing back and forth and might as well have targets painted on it for the enemy to aim at as one hit will completely cripple the ship!''
How often do aircraft crews crawl inside a jet nacelle in flight? That's right - never. As to weak points - with the yield of weapons in the Star Trek universe one hit on an unshielded ship is likely to cripple or destroy it no matter where it hits.
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Old August 20 2008, 02:37 AM   #62
ancient
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Re: Visual Proof a Resdesign is a good thing

Also, may I point out that the Enterprise was designed as a high tech future version of an explorer, and not as a frickin battleship. Why is the first thing out of critics moulths always a battle analysis?
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Old August 20 2008, 01:42 PM   #63
aloha62
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Re: Visual Proof a Resdesign is a good thing

Because trek always comes down to battles.


Cary L. Brown-

Your right i dont have a lot of experience and scientific knowledge in fictional ship design that doesn't change the fact that in my opinion the E didn't get attractive until the B version and on (although i would say the D doesnt look that nice)

iconic yes, aged well no.

Iam not arguing for replacement, just for a lot of tweaks to make the ToS version redesigned for a modern audiance.

this-

http://www.citlink.net/~lzdaily/TOS_Enterprise_planet.jpg

simply will not work any more.
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Old August 20 2008, 01:50 PM   #64
Cary L. Brown
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Re: Visual Proof a Resdesign is a good thing

aloha62 wrote: View Post
Because trek always comes down to battles.


Cary L. Brown-

Your right i dont have a lot of experience and scientific knowledge in fictional ship design that doesn't change the fact that in my opinion the E didn't get attractive until the B version and on (although i would say the D doesnt look that nice)

iconic yes, aged well no.

Iam not arguing for replacement, just for a lot of tweaks to make the ToS version redesigned for a modern audiance.

this-

http://www.citlink.net/~lzdaily/TOS_Enterprise_planet.jpg

simply will not work any more.
THAT... (your link) is NOT the ship as seen on-screen.

So your argument, based upon what appears to be a picture of a TOY, isn't valid. You need to refer to the actual design.

Since you posted an image of a ship never seen on-screen (and inaccurate to the actual on-screen model), I'll post another model which, while a "private model" and not seen on screen either, is an almost perfect replica of the on-screen model (but "polished" a bit).
http://img341.imageshack.us/my.php?i...newent1cn9.jpg
http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/6...newent1cn9.jpg

Let's look at that... or at any images of the actual 11' miniature seen on-screen... or any image of the new CGI version from the "remastered" episodes... NOT AT A CHEAP TOY... as the reference, shall we?

[Converting oversized image to link. Please keep inline images to pixel dimensions of no more than 640x480. - M']

Last edited by M'Sharak; August 20 2008 at 04:16 PM. Reason: stretchy
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Old August 20 2008, 02:45 PM   #65
dru
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Re: Visual Proof a Resdesign is a good thing

Cary L. wrote:
HAHAHA You OWN the OP! That is THE PERFECT Batman and Sandy Collora genius in making it happen!

Now, on to that post about Yoda. The muppet in TPM is done with similar techniques but was designed to look younger and everyone thought it looked bizarre and wrong. It did!

Sorry but the muppet in Empire is still the gold standard for Yoda. Like the rest of those films the painfully CG cartoon Yodas in Ep 2 & 3 are *not* convincing and lack the warmth of the original.

I hated the Tumbler before Batman Begins but it worked *in context.* There's nothing wrong with the Adam West Batman or Batmobile because it was appropriate for the tone and tenor of the show. Of the films autos, I generally prefer that 1989 Burton Batmobile version.
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Old August 20 2008, 03:26 PM   #66
Sheridan
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Re: Visual Proof a Resdesign is a good thing

Well, I think its clear that we're going to see a not completely redesigned but an updated Enterprise. From what I could tell from the teaser trailer it's probably going to be a bit curvier. We already know its not using the same font for the name on the ship.
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Old August 20 2008, 03:29 PM   #67
Cary L. Brown
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Re: Visual Proof a Resdesign is a good thing

Sheridan wrote: View Post
Well, I think its clear that we're going to see a not completely redesigned but an updated Enterprise. From what I could tell from the teaser trailer it's probably going to be a bit curvier. We already know its not using the same font for the name on the ship.
Actually, what we know is that they used the font used in the Franz Joseph stuff on the hull.

Which MIGHT have been done for a reason... other than "we want to make random changes."
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Old August 20 2008, 03:40 PM   #68
Sheridan
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Re: Visual Proof a Resdesign is a good thing

Cary L. Brown wrote: View Post
Sheridan wrote: View Post
Well, I think its clear that we're going to see a not completely redesigned but an updated Enterprise. From what I could tell from the teaser trailer it's probably going to be a bit curvier. We already know its not using the same font for the name on the ship.
Actually, what we know is that they used the font used in the Franz Joseph stuff on the hull.

Which MIGHT have been done for a reason... other than "we want to make random changes."
Is that the same font they used in the movies? It looks different compared to what I remember. Reminds me of Helvetica
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Old August 20 2008, 04:28 PM   #69
Cary L. Brown
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Re: Visual Proof a Resdesign is a good thing

Sheridan wrote: View Post
Cary L. Brown wrote: View Post
Sheridan wrote: View Post
Well, I think its clear that we're going to see a not completely redesigned but an updated Enterprise. From what I could tell from the teaser trailer it's probably going to be a bit curvier. We already know its not using the same font for the name on the ship.
Actually, what we know is that they used the font used in the Franz Joseph stuff on the hull.

Which MIGHT have been done for a reason... other than "we want to make random changes."
Is that the same font they used in the movies? It looks different compared to what I remember. Reminds me of Helvetica
Actually, FJ used "Microgramma," "Microgramma Extended" and "Microgramma Bold Extended" for virtually everything in his TM.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microgramma

When TMP came along, they came up with a modified version of Microgramma Bold Extended (which is informally called "Starfleet Bold Extended." They used Microgramma quite a bit as well, but the hull markings were modified versions of Microgramma Bold Extended with a red outline.

You may very well have the Microgramma fonts on your computer today. If not, they're easy to find.

"Starfleet Bold Extended" exists in a series of fonts you can find online... most of which are simply modifications of the Microgramma Bold Extended font (as you'd expect).

The original series markings were a machine block font which was used on virtually all Air Force and NASA vessels at the time. It's a little harder to find that font (I ended up buying a version of it... first and only time I'll ever pay for a font, too... but I wanted the EXACT font, not just something "close enough.")

I like the original markings... they're easier to read from a distance than the later font was. Which, you'd think, would be the MAIN CONCERN with hull markings, wouldn't you?

Last edited by Cary L. Brown; August 20 2008 at 04:34 PM.
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Old August 20 2008, 05:46 PM   #70
Sheridan
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Re: Visual Proof a Resdesign is a good thing

Cary L. Brown wrote: View Post
Sheridan wrote: View Post
Cary L. Brown wrote: View Post
Actually, what we know is that they used the font used in the Franz Joseph stuff on the hull.

Which MIGHT have been done for a reason... other than "we want to make random changes."
Is that the same font they used in the movies? It looks different compared to what I remember. Reminds me of Helvetica
Actually, FJ used "Microgramma," "Microgramma Extended" and "Microgramma Bold Extended" for virtually everything in his TM.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microgramma

When TMP came along, they came up with a modified version of Microgramma Bold Extended (which is informally called "Starfleet Bold Extended." They used Microgramma quite a bit as well, but the hull markings were modified versions of Microgramma Bold Extended with a red outline.

You may very well have the Microgramma fonts on your computer today. If not, they're easy to find.

"Starfleet Bold Extended" exists in a series of fonts you can find online... most of which are simply modifications of the Microgramma Bold Extended font (as you'd expect).

The original series markings were a machine block font which was used on virtually all Air Force and NASA vessels at the time. It's a little harder to find that font (I ended up buying a version of it... first and only time I'll ever pay for a font, too... but I wanted the EXACT font, not just something "close enough.")

I like the original markings... they're easier to read from a distance than the later font was. Which, you'd think, would be the MAIN CONCERN with hull markings, wouldn't you?
Thanks for the font info. I'm not really too concerned with what fonts they use on the Enterprise.

I'm not sure if you're concerned with the movie preserving the current Star Trek cannon or not but as far as I'm concerned the current Star Trek cannon is ruined and I'm hoping Abrams' Star Trek is a reboot of the franchise just as long as they maintain basic designs established by TOS. I do want to see an updated appearance but not a complete redesign. I would prefer that they take the simplistic retro design and build upon and update it to make it more realistic.

Last edited by Sheridan; August 20 2008 at 06:03 PM. Reason: typo
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Old August 20 2008, 11:23 PM   #71
3D Master
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Re: Visual Proof a Resdesign is a good thing

Bashir007 wrote: View Post
People have been complaining that they want the Enterprise\Bridge\uniforms to look like they did on TOS. Here is visual evidence that improving it and mondernizing it is a great thing and why I feel it will be a great looking film at the very least.
Oh, wow, now we're going to equate the "re-design" of a car built for campy parody into an actual functional, realistic car for a realistic movie to the redesign of one of the greatest and more magnificently designed starships in the history of SF and mankind, and a new movie that is NOT a reboot, as the show was never a parody.

Seriously, see if you can find any other SF ship model in the ffing Smithsonian or any other science museum.

Sjees.

I find the concept of a redesign of a starship that the greatest scientific minds of the world find good enough to hang in a museum of science monumentally arrogant.
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Old August 21 2008, 12:22 AM   #72
Sheridan
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Re: Visual Proof a Resdesign is a good thing

3D Master wrote: View Post

...more magnificently designed starships in the history of SF and mankind, and a new movie that is NOT a reboot, as the show was never a parody...
A show doesn't have to be a parody in order for a future movie/show to be a reboot of it. Besides, how could Star Trek XI not be a reboot? We have different actors, noticeable design changes on the Enterprise from what we've seen in teaser trailer, Romulans looking different etc. Besides, with all the bad things done to the cannon with TNG, TNG movies, DS9, VOY, and ENT I see no alternative than to do a reboot of Star Trek to keep it alive.
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Old August 21 2008, 12:33 AM   #73
Admiral Buzzkill
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Re: Visual Proof a Resdesign is a good thing

3D Master wrote: View Post
I find the concept of a redesign of a starship that the greatest scientific minds of the world find good enough to hang in a museum of science...
That's not at all the reason the Enterprise is at NASM. The "greatest scientific minds of the world" didn't get a vote or offer any opinions.

Last edited by Admiral Buzzkill; August 21 2008 at 12:38 AM.
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Old August 21 2008, 12:42 AM   #74
Eric Cheung
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Re: Visual Proof a Resdesign is a good thing

3D Master wrote: View Post
Seriously, see if you can find any other SF ship model in the ffing Smithsonian or any other science museum.

Sjees.

I find the concept of a redesign of a starship that the greatest scientific minds of the world find good enough to hang in a museum of science monumentally arrogant.
Having worked in a science museum I can tell you that there definitely is a disconnect between "great scientific minds" and museum administrative personnel. People who run museums (and sadly this is increasingly the case), care primarily about admission sales and science second. Besides, it's not like the 1701 actually flew through space. The science behind it was designed to be plausible not factual. It was designed to be an inspiration of what could be accomplished with international scientific cooperation. It's a symbol, nothing more. To that end the model of the Enterprise is entirely appropriate. Whatever the new Enterprise looks like that's all it will be too. To get the point across to a new generation, changes may need to be made.
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Old August 21 2008, 01:33 AM   #75
Admiral Buzzkill
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Re: Visual Proof a Resdesign is a good thing

Eric Cheung wrote: View Post
Having worked in a science museum I can tell you that there definitely is a disconnect between "great scientific minds" and museum administrative personnel. People who run museums (and sadly this is increasingly the case), care primarily about admission sales and science second.
And that definitely applies to NASM and the Enterprise.

The curatorial folks who got "stuck" putting together the 25th Anniversary "Star Trek" exhibition didn't feel they got a plum assignment, believe me. It was basically the job no one wanted - until they got a whiff of the public interest. And when everyone saw the crowds and the number of visitors it generated, week after week and month after month...well, the influence and importance of the folks who had managed it grew into quite the fiefdom.
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